What headphones to get

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
RobC
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Post 22 Apr 2018

selig wrote:
21 Apr 2018
RobC wrote:
Well, it comes off as if you struggle with getting a professional room done. So it sounded to me.
I’ve been lucky to work in some absolutely world class rooms in the past, so if I give the impression mine is not up to those standards, I can see why you would think it’s not professional.


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Ah, first world problems.

RobC
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Post 22 Apr 2018

EdGrip wrote:
21 Apr 2018
It probably goes without saying that part of the puzzle is to get totally familiar with whatever you get/have got. Use it for listening to music. Get your brain totally trained to how your music collection sounds through your system.
True, but my headphones are a catastrophe. I could try doing an inverted equalization according to the headphones terrible frequency response to get somewhat flat, but physically, there are no two same curves, not even in the same brand and model. Not that I dream about a dead flat line. Well, I do, but I hear we can't get that.

One suggestion above has a website where they offer calibration for a price ~ maybe one day, heh.

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Marco Raaphorst
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Post 22 Apr 2018

Talking about acoustics: I've been in superb sounding rooms which was not a pleasure to work in. There are so many things which are an influence on how you listen, how you enjoy working in a room/place.

I've done stuff with a headphone, a laptop and a half broken guitar which was a totally pleasure. And I've done stuff in expensive rooms when nothing was happening because it all felt clean and soulless.

Make something from nothing. Never ever blaim the tools. Challenge yourself to the max.
Marco Raaphorst

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Check out my new ReFill Rockmen: https://melodiefabriek.com/blog/rockmen ... available/

RobC
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Post 22 Apr 2018

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
22 Apr 2018
Talking about acoustics: I've been in superb sounding rooms which was not a pleasure to work in. There are so many things which are an influence on how you listen, how you enjoy working in a room/place.

I've done stuff with a headphone, a laptop and a half broken guitar which was a totally pleasure. And I've done stuff in expensive rooms when nothing was happening because it all felt clean and soulless.

Make something from nothing. Never ever blaim the tools. Challenge yourself to the max.
I like car acoustics with vocals. Tried once after a female vocalist needed better sound with limited tools. You know, take a laptop, your mic, get in a car, take your nylon stockings off - and there was a huge improvement. xD

Wouldn't be very efficient to get a car just for that. Plus when I tried, I had to shoo birds away first. Didn't want their singing leak into the microphone. xD

I could try convolution reverb, but a car is very subtle with very minimal "shine" even if you just try a clap. Probably couldn't mimic anything, properly.

Also, I've always worked with any tool I got, but what's the use if it will only sound perfect on my own system with my own ears? That's why I wanted something more fitting.

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Marco Raaphorst
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Post 22 Apr 2018

RobC wrote:
22 Apr 2018
Marco Raaphorst wrote:
22 Apr 2018
Talking about acoustics: I've been in superb sounding rooms which was not a pleasure to work in. There are so many things which are an influence on how you listen, how you enjoy working in a room/place.

I've done stuff with a headphone, a laptop and a half broken guitar which was a totally pleasure. And I've done stuff in expensive rooms when nothing was happening because it all felt clean and soulless.

Make something from nothing. Never ever blaim the tools. Challenge yourself to the max.
I like car acoustics with vocals. Tried once after a female vocalist needed better sound with limited tools. You know, take a laptop, your mic, get in a car, take your nylon stockings off - and there was a huge improvement. xD

Wouldn't be very efficient to get a car just for that. Plus when I tried, I had to shoo birds away first. Didn't want their singing leak into the microphone. xD

I could try convolution reverb, but a car is very subtle with very minimal "shine" even if you just try a clap. Probably couldn't mimic anything, properly.

Also, I've always worked with any tool I got, but what's the use if it will only sound perfect on my own system with my own ears? That's why I wanted something more fitting.
I must say I don't even want it to sound perfect. It will never be. All systems are different. That's the fun of it. We all will get different experiences out of it.

I used to be a huge hifi and perfectionist. Then I found out that it bores the shit out of me. Now I go for vibes, contrast, outspokenness, weirdness, fuck the rules, fuck the norms, expermental stuff, shake the earth. Impress myself :)

Perfection is boring.
Marco Raaphorst

Music & soundware https://melodiefabriek.com.
Check out my new ReFill Rockmen: https://melodiefabriek.com/blog/rockmen ... available/

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selig
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Post 22 Apr 2018

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
22 Apr 2018
Talking about acoustics: I've been in superb sounding rooms which was not a pleasure to work in. There are so many things which are an influence on how you listen, how you enjoy working in a room/place.

I've done stuff with a headphone, a laptop and a half broken guitar which was a totally pleasure. And I've done stuff in expensive rooms when nothing was happening because it all felt clean and soulless.

Make something from nothing. Never ever blaim the tools. Challenge yourself to the max.
I've never had a bad experience in great sounding spaces. Quite the opposite, they absolutely inspire me. But so do some horrible sounding spaces. Horses for courses, depends TOTALLY on what you're trying to do at the time! And yes, never blame the tools - the "pleasure" comes from within, not without IMO!

Context, as always, is King, and absolutes are useless to me.
Selig Audio, LLC

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selig
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Post 22 Apr 2018

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
22 Apr 2018
RobC wrote:
22 Apr 2018


I like car acoustics with vocals. Tried once after a female vocalist needed better sound with limited tools. You know, take a laptop, your mic, get in a car, take your nylon stockings off - and there was a huge improvement. xD

Wouldn't be very efficient to get a car just for that. Plus when I tried, I had to shoo birds away first. Didn't want their singing leak into the microphone. xD

I could try convolution reverb, but a car is very subtle with very minimal "shine" even if you just try a clap. Probably couldn't mimic anything, properly.

Also, I've always worked with any tool I got, but what's the use if it will only sound perfect on my own system with my own ears? That's why I wanted something more fitting.
I must say I don't even want it to sound perfect. It will never be. All systems are different. That's the fun of it. We all will get different experiences out of it.

I used to be a huge hifi and perfectionist. Then I found out that it bores the shit out of me. Now I go for vibes, contrast, outspokenness, weirdness, fuck the rules, fuck the norms, expermental stuff, shake the earth. Impress myself :)

Perfection is boring.
Most mix engineers I know are absolutely NOT hifi perfectionists (audiophiles). I don't want it to sound perfect either, which is why I use the term "neutral" when I don't want the influence, and words like "character" and "color" when I do. Neither are right or wrong, again it's 100% about context for me.

I've had some of the best times recording in big old churches, in the studio lobby instead of the "drum room", outside (warts and all), in scary basements, whatever it takes to make the magic. I'm a huge fan of location recording and am more than willing to drag all my gear to wherever the magic is happening and try to capture it!

But still, I gotta say MIXING in a neutral room cannot be beat - it's the ONE time I don't want distractions and things that can mislead me. I don't mind happy accidents, but mixing in a less than desirable room just takes more time, more work, is less fun, and less magic happens. The results speak for themselves IMO.
Selig Audio, LLC

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demt
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Post 22 Apr 2018

magic happens!!!
neutron; tb3; triggerfingerpro;3korg volca keys fm drums; kaos pad 3;zaquencer; akai mpk mini;2 zmx mixers; midiplus interface; behringer umc souncard, arturia drumbrute
hear scince reason 2.5

RobC
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Post 23 Apr 2018

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
22 Apr 2018
RobC wrote:
22 Apr 2018


I like car acoustics with vocals. Tried once after a female vocalist needed better sound with limited tools. You know, take a laptop, your mic, get in a car, take your nylon stockings off - and there was a huge improvement. xD

Wouldn't be very efficient to get a car just for that. Plus when I tried, I had to shoo birds away first. Didn't want their singing leak into the microphone. xD

I could try convolution reverb, but a car is very subtle with very minimal "shine" even if you just try a clap. Probably couldn't mimic anything, properly.

Also, I've always worked with any tool I got, but what's the use if it will only sound perfect on my own system with my own ears? That's why I wanted something more fitting.
I must say I don't even want it to sound perfect. It will never be. All systems are different. That's the fun of it. We all will get different experiences out of it.

I used to be a huge hifi and perfectionist. Then I found out that it bores the shit out of me. Now I go for vibes, contrast, outspokenness, weirdness, fuck the rules, fuck the norms, expermental stuff, shake the earth. Impress myself :)

Perfection is boring.
Well, you know what Picasso said ~

RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

Post 23 Apr 2018

normen wrote:
21 Apr 2018
RobC wrote:
21 Apr 2018
It took quite a dozen comments until the fact that something like pink noise is used for calibrating systems and measuring, was even hinted. No wonder it sort of (sort of!) sounds smooth on my headphones - but sub bass, especially 20-40 Hz region is not properly audible. Like what, am I supposed to turn on my sub box and use the two together? Kidding.

I used to use pink noise, though, but drifted away. (Some say I over complicate things. Interestingly, in English class, when I didn't study, my tests got the best rating. If I studied at home, too, then I ended up confused and got one grade worse than the best one.)
Nothing like pink noise is used to calibrate systems. They have a white noise response, every single frequency is played back as loud as it was recorded. That has nothing to do with how our ears work, they work the same no matter if you listen to a real instrument or a recording of that instrument. So every frequency recorded should be played back as loud as it was recorded, without any EQ curve. That is why it‘s called „flat“ response, because the „curve“ is a flat line.

The type of music doesn't change that either, every frequency should be played as loud as the mixing/mastering engineers put them. Then you can adjust to taste - not to sine waves, who listens to sine waves? :)
Check this one! Beyerdynamic DT 880 (or 990 seems more available around here) It's the most flat looking so far (if we ignore the highs):

http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/rep ... k_-_fr.png

Pretty ok, too for 200 bucks! Anything flatter for the buck out there?
Last edited by RobC on 23 Apr 2018, edited 1 time in total.

RobC
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Post 23 Apr 2018

As suggested before by some of you, Sonarworks has a calibration software with EQ presets. I say, the flatter, and less EQ-ing needed, the better. Here's a nice collection, and hope for an approximately flat sound to start off from:

https://www.sonarworks.com/reference/headphones

Even gonna add the link to the start post.

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deepndark
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Post 23 Apr 2018

AKG K240 Studio ones här, spelar bra och har neutralen saundindo.

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sublunar
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Post 23 Apr 2018

RobC wrote:
21 Apr 2018
Some say I over complicate things.
What? No way! I'm shocked. lol. This thread about headphones would definitely not be an example of that. /s

IMO, there are far too many variables involved to go even half as deep as you've gone in this thread. Unless you've got time and money and all the resources to build a world class studio. Manage your expectations. Make your mixes sound good across a variety of playback systems. And definitely stop using that track you posted as any sort of reference material because that track ain't gonna help you. Making music sound good isn't actually this difficult.

RobC
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Post 23 Apr 2018

deepndark wrote:
23 Apr 2018
AKG K240 Studio ones här, spelar bra och har neutralen saundindo.
That's great, but I need open-back ones, not semi-open, nor closed.

RobC
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Post 23 Apr 2018

sublunar wrote:
23 Apr 2018
RobC wrote:
21 Apr 2018
Some say I over complicate things.
What? No way! I'm shocked. lol. This thread about headphones would definitely not be an example of that. /s

IMO, there are far too many variables involved to go even half as deep as you've gone in this thread. Unless you've got time and money and all the resources to build a world class studio. Manage your expectations. Make your mixes sound good across a variety of playback systems. And definitely stop using that track you posted as any sort of reference material because that track ain't gonna help you. Making music sound good isn't actually this difficult.
That music itself has nothing to do with the equalization test, which became irrelevant at this point, since it was the wrong approach it only sounded good on 1 headphone type, with some twisted equalization.
I think it's silly to dumb down a person just because of an odd experiment. It's a thing that I'm here to clear up my confusion, but that has nothing to do with my skills. There simply was a core issue: misunderstanding flat response and how it works - which is cleared up now.

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sublunar
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Post 23 Apr 2018

RobC wrote:
23 Apr 2018
sublunar wrote:
23 Apr 2018
And definitely stop using that track you posted as any sort of reference material because that track ain't gonna help you.
That music ...only sounded good on 1 headphone type, with some twisted equalization.
Yes, Indeed I would expect that to be the case.
RobC wrote:
23 Apr 2018
I think it's silly to dumb down a person just because of an odd experiment. It's a thing that I'm here to clear up my confusion, but that has nothing to do with my skills. There simply was a core issue: misunderstanding flat response and how it works - which is cleared up now.
I wasn't trying to "dumb you down" and I didn't mean my statement as an insult. I certainly don't recall bringing up your skills (which I wouldn't know anyway since we're just random internet users).

I'm just trying to say: Take a few steps back from the super in depth theoretical approach (stop over complicating the process); chill out on the rules a little and enjoy the process. Making music sound good doesn't need to be that tedious/difficult.

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Marco Raaphorst
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Post 23 Apr 2018

Many people worldwide use the white Apple headphones. Millions of listeners. I know many people who use it as a norm for mixing. Makes sense.
Marco Raaphorst

Music & soundware https://melodiefabriek.com.
Check out my new ReFill Rockmen: https://melodiefabriek.com/blog/rockmen ... available/

RobC
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Post 23 Apr 2018

sublunar wrote:
23 Apr 2018
RobC wrote:
23 Apr 2018


That music ...only sounded good on 1 headphone type, with some twisted equalization.
Yes, Indeed I would expect that to be the case.
RobC wrote:
23 Apr 2018
I think it's silly to dumb down a person just because of an odd experiment. It's a thing that I'm here to clear up my confusion, but that has nothing to do with my skills. There simply was a core issue: misunderstanding flat response and how it works - which is cleared up now.
I wasn't trying to "dumb you down" and I didn't mean my statement as an insult. I certainly don't recall bringing up your skills (which I wouldn't know anyway since we're just random internet users).

I'm just trying to say: Take a few steps back from the super in depth theoretical approach (stop over complicating the process); chill out on the rules a little and enjoy the process. Making music sound good doesn't need to be that tedious/difficult.
It's not that, I just wanted to make it clear, cause sometimes it seems people confuse me as a noob, just because I go down to the roots and straighten out what's messed up in my knowledge.
I try to be more simple, but sometimes, experiments start ~ and go either well, or wrong. It's always a hit and miss.

RobC
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Post 23 Apr 2018

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
23 Apr 2018
Many people worldwide use the white Apple headphones. Millions of listeners. I know many people who use it as a norm for mixing. Makes sense.
It's a target audience. I mean, I like speakers but prefer headphones, too.

RobC
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Post 25 Apr 2018

Epilogue: Looks like I'm going for the Audio Technica ATH-M30X. At least it will be okay for recording vocals, too with a flat response after the SW flat EQing.
Later, I will go with something more expensive, open back ~ after all, they will need an amplifier, especially some with 600 ohm. And I'll look into separate DACs, too (sick of those combined all in one mediocre, weak boxes). - And I won't have to throw away the above one, since it will still be useful for recording. (...and ADC, etc. heh.)

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Marco Raaphorst
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Post 25 Apr 2018

RobC wrote:
25 Apr 2018
Epilogue: Looks like I'm going for the Audio Technica ATH-M30X. At least it will be okay for recording vocals, too with a flat response after the SW flat EQing.
Later, I will go with something more expensive, open back ~ after all, they will need an amplifier, especially some with 600 ohm. And I'll look into separate DACs, too (sick of those combined all in one mediocre, weak boxes). - And I won't have to throw away the above one, since it will still be useful for recording. (...and ADC, etc. heh.)
Are you on a Mac? If so you don't need a DAC. The output is sublime on both analog and optical.
Marco Raaphorst

Music & soundware https://melodiefabriek.com.
Check out my new ReFill Rockmen: https://melodiefabriek.com/blog/rockmen ... available/

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normen
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Post 25 Apr 2018

Rob, you're a manufacturers dream ;)

RobC
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Post 25 Apr 2018

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
25 Apr 2018
RobC wrote:
25 Apr 2018
Epilogue: Looks like I'm going for the Audio Technica ATH-M30X. At least it will be okay for recording vocals, too with a flat response after the SW flat EQing.
Later, I will go with something more expensive, open back ~ after all, they will need an amplifier, especially some with 600 ohm. And I'll look into separate DACs, too (sick of those combined all in one mediocre, weak boxes). - And I won't have to throw away the above one, since it will still be useful for recording. (...and ADC, etc. heh.)
Are you on a Mac? If so you don't need a DAC. The output is sublime on both analog and optical.
It's a Dell ~ the built in sound goes, but microphone already deserved a USB ADDAC - figures. But I'll probably have a complete system upgrade/change.

RobC
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Post 25 Apr 2018

normen wrote:
25 Apr 2018
Rob, you're a manufacturers dream ;)
More like nightmare. They try to sell cheap MIC inputs, with cheap preamps, cheap instrument inputs with more cheap preamps, cheap speaker outs, and finally some cheap headphone out with a weak headphone amp ~ for expensive - on 90% of the wonder boxes. I'm expected to buy that.

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normen
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Post 25 Apr 2018

RobC wrote:
25 Apr 2018
More like nightmare. They try to sell cheap MIC inputs, with cheap preamps, cheap instrument inputs with more cheap preamps, cheap speaker outs, and finally some cheap headphone out with a weak headphone amp ~ for expensive - on 90% of the wonder boxes. I'm expected to buy that.
Cheap doesn't equal to bad. But yeah, if then its NOT cheap for you as a buyer then beware :)

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