What headphones to get

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

Post 25 Apr 2018

normen wrote:
25 Apr 2018
RobC wrote:
25 Apr 2018
More like nightmare. They try to sell cheap MIC inputs, with cheap preamps, cheap instrument inputs with more cheap preamps, cheap speaker outs, and finally some cheap headphone out with a weak headphone amp ~ for expensive - on 90% of the wonder boxes. I'm expected to buy that.
Cheap doesn't equal to bad. But yeah, if then its NOT cheap for you as a buyer then beware :)
But I meant poor quality, sound wise - just played with words to stress when they sell loads of trash in one box (especially if I won't use some of it) - and then for the final price, you could achieve better sound with separate tools, that you actually will use completely.

My favorite is when on an all in one box they sell as: "You need this! It's awesome! Everything all in one! Rad sound!"
Separate devices (on the same website): "Don't be a fool to buy a mediocre-sounding all in one box!"

Also, gotta love those manufacturers' website, where everything is full of marketing text, and you barely get useful technical info. Heck they even tend not to show not just the price tag, but also some poor quality specifications.
On consumer devices - that's okay. But when you see them doing the same with ~ $ 1000 category devices... Even professional ones. Like, do they think the professionals will give a damn about the marketing text? ...or are there even there gullible people?

jimmyklane
Posts: 737
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

Post 25 Apr 2018

selig wrote:
20 Apr 2018
RobC wrote:
19 Apr 2018


Yeah, the current headphones really have a sound I don't like at all.
When equalized flat, this little sample sounds about balanced out. Without the headphones equalized, the treble scratches my eardrums.

It's not your phones…
That sounds totally hyped on the top end to my ears. Too much treble, not a natural "pink noise" curve at all, at least to my ears on my system. If I equalized that to sound right, then pretty much nothing else I listen to would be acceptable on any level.

Could this one example explain why I don't understand your process?


This.

RobC, you and I have had a brief discussion on this topic in another thread. You should NOT equalize sine waves to sound the same to you. Using a reference measuring microphone and an RTA, you’ll be able to get the curve for your room. If you use headphones exclusively then you’ll have to “learn” them while they’re flat. I know you’ve said this method works for you...at the risk of derailing this thread would you mind posting a song that you’ve done after using your personal calibration method? What you’re doing is absolutely not industry standard and is in fact countering neutral sound. I’ll state it again: Sine waves should NOT sound at equal volumes, ever. They will get quieter as you go down to 30Hz, and louder into 60, 120, 240, etc...as you get into the speech range if 1-3kHz, and again at 10k until they fade out at the upper limit of your personal hearing.

Please see this: https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/fletcher-munson-curve/

I’m very interested to hear your music, as perhaps you’ve learned to adapt to your method....but it is by no means something standard done by acoustic engineers when creating and calibrating studio spaces.
DAW: Reason 10,

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

RobC
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Post 25 Apr 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
25 Apr 2018
selig wrote:
20 Apr 2018

It's not your phones…
That sounds totally hyped on the top end to my ears. Too much treble, not a natural "pink noise" curve at all, at least to my ears on my system. If I equalized that to sound right, then pretty much nothing else I listen to would be acceptable on any level.

Could this one example explain why I don't understand your process?


This.

RobC, you and I have had a brief discussion on this topic in another thread. You should NOT equalize sine waves to sound the same to you. Using a reference measuring microphone and an RTA, you’ll be able to get the curve for your room. If you use headphones exclusively then you’ll have to “learn” them while they’re flat. I know you’ve said this method works for you...at the risk of derailing this thread would you mind posting a song that you’ve done after using your personal calibration method? What you’re doing is absolutely not industry standard and is in fact countering neutral sound. I’ll state it again: Sine waves should NOT sound at equal volumes, ever. They will get quieter as you go down to 30Hz, and louder into 60, 120, 240, etc...as you get into the speech range if 1-3kHz, and again at 10k until they fade out at the upper limit of your personal hearing.

Please see this: https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/fletcher-munson-curve/

I’m very interested to hear your music, as perhaps you’ve learned to adapt to your method....but it is by no means something standard done by acoustic engineers when creating and calibrating studio spaces.
This was already cleared in this thread. That's why I'm looking for true flat response by now. I only 'thought' what I read in some random forums, would create a flat response, when it doesn't. Haven't done any songs, this was just a simple equalization experiment on a loop.

Here's the original mix, made with the default frequency response of the system (3 years ago).


RobC
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Post 25 Apr 2018

You gotta be kidding me! From the SW calibrated headphone list, I found the Marshall Major II which has a better bass response, it seems. Equalizing bass is the most damaging to sound ~ or at least so I experienced. It's cheaper, but it also seems to have a pretty bad -12 dB gap ~ dunno how equalization on that would turn out.

Image

Then again, the ATH-M30X looks pretty bad, too. (Especially sub bass.)

Image

If anyone knows an optimal solution from this list: https://www.sonarworks.com/reference/headphones then please let me know. At this point, I just want the best sound possible that doesn't need an amplifier, and limit it to 100 bucks. Open, closed, semi-open, doesn't matter anymore. That the software should need to equalize as little as possible, would be important.

RobC
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Post 26 Apr 2018

...on second thought, they added 28 headphones to the list. Restart...

The Marshall ones look fantastic, but seem more casual-listening oriented. That with smartphone buttons, built-in mic, a secondary jack, to connect an enemy to the terrible noise we're listening ( : ) ). I have that feeling, just because it shines, won't make it gold. So fancy though, I'd definitely buy it for my girlfriend, or boyfriend (what! xD ~ there are women on here, too! - "If I was a woman, or gay..." lol).

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sublunar
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Post 27 Apr 2018

Is there something you don't like about the one I recommended? Superlux HD681. Nice and flat and comfortable for only like 40 bucks. I highly recommend them.

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sublunar
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Post 27 Apr 2018

RobC wrote:
25 Apr 2018
Have you changed your opinion of this track or are you still happy with it as a reference? I'm not dissing the music at all, just the processing/sound. It sounds really off. There's like no midrange, the bass and the highs sound ..extreme and even the style in which it was played is not very conducive to listening for subtle nuances, the dynamics are pretty harsh. I would have looked for something with both subtle passages as well as the more dynamic parts. Granted I'm using earbuds, but I listen to music all day long at work and I don't get this effect with everything else I listen to.

RobC
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Post 27 Apr 2018

sublunar wrote:
27 Apr 2018
Is there something you don't like about the one I recommended? Superlux HD681. Nice and flat and comfortable for only like 40 bucks. I highly recommend them.
I never said I'd use either song loop as a reference. Plus 3 years old work, let's not get into there.

Image

Not flat enough, and although the SonarWorks program has a flat EQ preset for those headphones, truth is, the more equalization needed, the more the sound deforms, especially true for bass region, in my experience at least.

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sublunar
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Post 27 Apr 2018

I still don't know why you feel it's so important to EQ your stuff to suit the headphones you use. I would never do that. I listen to my material on different systems to make sure it sounds right, I certainly don't get that anal with it. But to each their own.

RobC
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Post 27 Apr 2018

sublunar wrote:
27 Apr 2018
I still don't know why you feel it's so important to EQ your stuff to suit the headphones you use. I would never do that. I listen to my material on different systems to make sure it sounds right, I certainly don't get that anal with it. But to each their own.
No, the program would EQ the headphones themselves to more or less flat frequency response. (My own, separate EQing experiment is trashed.) Bare in mind, that I'm very heavy into sound design. That's where tiny details matter and you need to listen very closely. Clearly, I want to hear what's truly going on - with as little EQ artifacts, as possible.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't be grateful for your help!

RobC
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Post 27 Apr 2018

Okay, so the Marshall Major II is really starting to convince me.

Although I don't care for looks, this is something I'd even take to the streets with me, they have a pretty good design.

Image

The ear pads seem to be the more durable kind, too. Also, yay for coiled cable!

Allow me to look at it's frequency response graph, again:

Image

Up until about 2K the response is quite tolerable; the rest needs heavier EQ-ing, but then again, highs still deform the sound less than the lows (or so I experienced when it comes to IIR EQs ~ there is a linear phase mode with some added latency with the SW program - which does the flat EQing). My other headphone candidates simply had crazy differences.

They seem to have a huge price drop, due to being pretty popular, too.

Specs seem quite okay for the price, too.

DRIVERS 40 mm
DRIVER TYPE Dynamic
DRIVER IMPEDANCE 67 Ω
DRIVER SENSITIVITY 99 dB SPL
FREQUENCY RESPONSE 20 Hz–20 kHz

Considering that the full price was $ 119 and it's discounted to $ 49, I understand how they can pack the extra detachable features (mic, smartphone buttons, etc.).

Reviews are good, too, but...
I'm a bit worried. You know what Talking Tom said: "If it's too good to be true, it probably isn't." xD

Image

Somebody say something before they ditch the discount!

Edit: Since the topic got way too deep, and I now I have 1 candidate, I'm better gonna make this a separate post.

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avasopht
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Post 30 Apr 2018

Do you have anywhere local where you can try out the different headphones?
deepndark wrote:
23 Apr 2018
AKG K240 Studio ones här, spelar bra och har neutralen saundindo.
That would have been my recommendation as well.
---

RobC
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Post 30 Apr 2018

avasopht wrote:
30 Apr 2018
Do you have anywhere local where you can try out the different headphones?
deepndark wrote:
23 Apr 2018
AKG K240 Studio ones här, spelar bra och har neutralen saundindo.
That would have been my recommendation as well.
Sadly, no ~ I checked many headphones and currently I'm most convinced by the Marshall ones. I just want to avoid any red flags, I might be missing. (I'll get open back ones later.)

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sublunar
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Post 11 May 2018

So as it happens, my crappy old Sony v500 headphones broke yesterday. I was only using them with my mobile rig on lunchbreaks and whatnot. Nothing serious.

I've decided to buy the Sony MDR-7506 headphones which are apparently very popular and highly rated. I'm also going to get a pair of Apple earbuds since those are also very popular and have millions of users. I spent about 10 minutes, didn't look at any frequency response graphs and feel good about my decision. Headphone selection done. Back to making music.

RobC
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Post 11 May 2018

sublunar wrote:
11 May 2018
So as it happens, my crappy old Sony v500 headphones broke yesterday. I was only using them with my mobile rig on lunchbreaks and whatnot. Nothing serious.

I've decided to buy the Sony MDR-7506 headphones which are apparently very popular and highly rated. I'm also going to get a pair of Apple earbuds since those are also very popular and have millions of users. I spent about 10 minutes, didn't look at any frequency response graphs and feel good about my decision. Headphone selection done. Back to making music.
I decided for in-ear monitors because I'm looking for the clearest sound path possible, vastly for sound creation from scratch, which demands detail.

I don't care much for frequency response either as long as the device can properly be equalized without crazy amounts of distortion. Now finding professional quality in-ear monitors for $ 100, is another challenge.

What I like about in-ear monitors is that they change the least as you move, and whenever you put them "on" (well, in).

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sublunar
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Post 11 May 2018

RobC wrote:
11 May 2018
sublunar wrote:
11 May 2018
So as it happens, my crappy old Sony v500 headphones broke yesterday. I was only using them with my mobile rig on lunchbreaks and whatnot. Nothing serious.

I've decided to buy the Sony MDR-7506 headphones which are apparently very popular and highly rated. I'm also going to get a pair of Apple earbuds since those are also very popular and have millions of users. I spent about 10 minutes, didn't look at any frequency response graphs and feel good about my decision. Headphone selection done. Back to making music.
I decided for in-ear monitors because I'm looking for the clearest sound path possible, vastly for sound creation from scratch, which demands detail.

I don't care much for frequency response either as long as the device can properly be equalized without crazy amounts of distortion. Now finding professional quality in-ear monitors for $ 100, is another challenge.

What I like about in-ear monitors is that they change the least as you move, and whenever you put them "on" (well, in).
Did you decide on a specific pair? Just wondering because while I do most of my work at home through my monitors, I do have Reason installed on my work laptop (don't tell my boss) and I bring my personal laptop on my lunch breaks, so having something more discreet than big over ear things is important when on the clock.. lol. I bought the Apple ear buds to get me by but I'd like a good "studio monitor" earbud/in ear, if such a thing truly exists.

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selig
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Post 11 May 2018

sublunar wrote:
RobC wrote:
11 May 2018
I decided for in-ear monitors because I'm looking for the clearest sound path possible, vastly for sound creation from scratch, which demands detail.

I don't care much for frequency response either as long as the device can properly be equalized without crazy amounts of distortion. Now finding professional quality in-ear monitors for $ 100, is another challenge.

What I like about in-ear monitors is that they change the least as you move, and whenever you put them "on" (well, in).
Did you decide on a specific pair? Just wondering because while I do most of my work at home through my monitors, I do have Reason installed on my work laptop (don't tell my boss) and I bring my personal laptop on my lunch breaks, so having something more discreet than big over ear things is important when on the clock.. lol. I bought the Apple ear buds to get me by but I'd like a good "studio monitor" earbud/in ear, if such a thing truly exists.
You may have luck looking at live sound “in ears” because they have the highest quality and most options (but you won’t find them for $100!). You start with custom fit molds for your ears because (as I understand it) the “one size fits all” won’t cut it in most cases.

My GF has a few generic pairs for occasional live use, and she says they never quite cut it (which is why she has more than one - she keeps trying new ones!).

I’ve heard about more than one touring band using their in-ears for studio recording, which is great for eliminating headphone bleed!



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RobC
Posts: 955
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Post 11 May 2018

sublunar wrote:
11 May 2018
RobC wrote:
11 May 2018


I decided for in-ear monitors because I'm looking for the clearest sound path possible, vastly for sound creation from scratch, which demands detail.

I don't care much for frequency response either as long as the device can properly be equalized without crazy amounts of distortion. Now finding professional quality in-ear monitors for $ 100, is another challenge.

What I like about in-ear monitors is that they change the least as you move, and whenever you put them "on" (well, in).
Did you decide on a specific pair? Just wondering because while I do most of my work at home through my monitors, I do have Reason installed on my work laptop (don't tell my boss) and I bring my personal laptop on my lunch breaks, so having something more discreet than big over ear things is important when on the clock.. lol. I bought the Apple ear buds to get me by but I'd like a good "studio monitor" earbud/in ear, if such a thing truly exists.
Like I said, it's mostly for sound creation in my case, but yeah I'm still looking.

RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

Post 11 May 2018

selig wrote:
11 May 2018
sublunar wrote:
Did you decide on a specific pair? Just wondering because while I do most of my work at home through my monitors, I do have Reason installed on my work laptop (don't tell my boss) and I bring my personal laptop on my lunch breaks, so having something more discreet than big over ear things is important when on the clock.. lol. I bought the Apple ear buds to get me by but I'd like a good "studio monitor" earbud/in ear, if such a thing truly exists.
You may have luck looking at live sound “in ears” because they have the highest quality and most options (but you won’t find them for $100!). You start with custom fit molds for your ears because (as I understand it) the “one size fits all” won’t cut it in most cases.

My GF has a few generic pairs for occasional live use, and she says they never quite cut it (which is why she has more than one - she keeps trying new ones!).

I’ve heard about more than one touring band using their in-ears for studio recording, which is great for eliminating headphone bleed!



Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
I'm the bum, not Sublunar! He may be able to afford the $ 1000 category ~

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sublunar
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Post 11 May 2018

RobC wrote:
11 May 2018
selig wrote:
11 May 2018

You may have luck looking at live sound “in ears” because they have the highest quality and most options (but you won’t find them for $100!). You start with custom fit molds for your ears because (as I understand it) the “one size fits all” won’t cut it in most cases.

My GF has a few generic pairs for occasional live use, and she says they never quite cut it (which is why she has more than one - she keeps trying new ones!).

I’ve heard about more than one touring band using their in-ears for studio recording, which is great for eliminating headphone bleed!



Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
I'm the bum, not Sublunar! He may be able to afford the $ 1000 category ~
haha, nope. I'm the biggest bum of all. And If it's more than $100 for headphones, I don't need em. The Sony MDR-7506 headphones I bought for 80 bucks new on ebay and the Apple earbuds were like 9 bucks. Didn't want to spend so much for my portable rig but I figure these phones might be better than the ones I'm currently using in the studio so what the hell. I'll have to hear them to know for sure but I think these will suit me just fine.

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selig
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Post 12 May 2018

RobC wrote: I'm the bum, not Sublunar! He may be able to afford the $ 1000 category ~
I hear ya-
Though I’ve spent +$1000 for studio monitors, I’ve never even considered more than $200 for phones (and rarely over $100).


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RobC
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Post 12 May 2018

sublunar wrote:
11 May 2018
RobC wrote:
11 May 2018


I'm the bum, not Sublunar! He may be able to afford the $ 1000 category ~
haha, nope. I'm the biggest bum of all. And If it's more than $100 for headphones, I don't need em. The Sony MDR-7506 headphones I bought for 80 bucks new on ebay and the Apple earbuds were like 9 bucks. Didn't want to spend so much for my portable rig but I figure these phones might be better than the ones I'm currently using in the studio so what the hell. I'll have to hear them to know for sure but I think these will suit me just fine.
Trust me, I'm a far bigger bum. xD ~ I heard that the Sony ones you picked are a good sounding pair, but I'm not sure what to expect for 9 dollars. I just hope I can find something maybe a bit above 100 dollars that sound at least 'eh, alright' category.

I'm looking here https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/sound-quality
They showcase some they tested. Just scroll to "Test results" click "Add Column/Filter", then from "Select a test result" select "Type" and then check "In-ear".
I usually also filter Total Harmonic Distortion.

RobC
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Post 12 May 2018

selig wrote:
12 May 2018
RobC wrote: I'm the bum, not Sublunar! He may be able to afford the $ 1000 category ~
I hear ya-
Though I’ve spent +$1000 for studio monitors, I’ve never even considered more than $200 for phones (and rarely over $100).


Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
For sound creation, sound design, sound generating ~ whichever word preferred, detail is very important, so in-ear phones are worth it for me. Now for dynamics... well, maybe while I create a single synthesized kick drum, or snare drum, etc. and listen to that alone, they would do the trick, but a mix is obviously something that works better with speakers. So yeah, single sound making, and tops synthesized music optimized for in-ear users.

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avasopht
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Post 17 May 2018

@RobC: this looks right up your street ... https://www.nuraphone.com/
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normen
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Post 17 May 2018

avasopht wrote:
17 May 2018
@RobC: this looks right up your street ... https://www.nuraphone.com/
Hah, well technically they give you MORE of your ears "EQing" so no it's not what he SAID he wants ;)

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