Ruh Roh George: Apple to use its own chips in Macs starting in 2020

[EnochLight]

I seriously don't know how I feel about this:

https://www.techconnect.com/article/326 ... -2020.html

Thoughts?

[selig]

I seriously don't know how I feel about this:

https://www.techconnect.com/article/326 ... -2020.html

Thoughts?

Depends on which route they take (as mentioned in the linked article), although they managed the change from Motorola to Intel as well as could be expected. And they have success with their phone chips, so best case is it's more evolutionary than revolutionary. Hopefully…

[esselfortium]

I'm less than thrilled by this rumor, even though I can safely assume my current hackintosh setup will continue to be supported for several years after the changeover.

All the hardware compatibility issues this would create seem to fly in the face of Apple's previously-announced plans to release a modular and upgradeable Mac Pro in the next year or so, though, so I have some doubts as to whether or not this really going to happen anytime soon.

[QVprod]

Could be a great thing, downside is the question of whether developers will make the transition to make their software compatible. The mobile products that already use Apple chips work great. I have a feeling they'll possibly start making the transition with the cheaper macbook before converting their higher end models from intel.

[EnochLight]

No more Bootcamp, that's for sure. That said, does anyone ever run Windows on their Macs these days?

[esselfortium]

No more Bootcamp, that's for sure. That said, does anyone ever run Windows on their Macs these days?

I'm dependent enough on it (primarily virtualization, but occasional dualbooting too) that I wouldn't be willing to buy a Mac that can't run Windows.

[normen]

I don't see a need to worry, if they do it they probably know what they're doing. A better power consumption rate can result in all kinds of options to increase general performance.

..and Reason itself is in a very unique position and could REALLY show its RE muscle by simply putting out a Reason update and all users can continue to make music while all other DAW users are pulling their hair and rain shit on plugin developers customer support

[miscend]

Intel Processors have slowed down a lot and there just is a lack of innovation in the CPU hardware market. Apple is having issues making faster more powerful laptops because of a lack of good offerings with decent thermals from Intel.

Even GPUs from the likes of Nvidia have outpaced Intel for innovation and become a lot more complex and powerful. They’re now using GPU compute for Deep Learning and Artificial Intelligence because they’re just plain faster than CPUs.

Apples internal hardware team have effectively been able to double performance every generation with their CPU architecture. The latest iPhone is a about as powerful as a MacBook Air but with a smaller footprint and better thermals.

[EnochLight]

The thing is, prior to Apple switching to Intel CPU's back in the day, the current flagship PowerPC chips at the time were just plain shitty compared to what Intel was doing at the same time. Didn't they switch to keep up with the PC's that were reaping the benefits?

That said, I'm curious if Apple - for the first time being their own desktop chip manufacture (PowerPC's were made with Motorola/IBM/Apple) - will they be able to best Intel and AMD who have been doing this for decades?

[QVprod]

The thing is, prior to Apple switching to Intel CPU's back in the day, the current flagship PowerPC chips at the time were just plain shitty compared to what Intel was doing at the same time. Didn't they switch to keep up with the PC's that were reaping the benefits?

That said, I'm curious if Apple - for the first time being their own desktop chip manufacture (PowerPC's were made with Motorola/IBM/Apple) - will they be able to best Intel and AMD who have been doing this for decades?

That was pre iPhone/iPad era. Apple's a bit of a different company than it was back then. As powerful as the chips in ios devices are, I wouldn't be concerned about their ability to adapt that technology to computers

[MikeMcKew]

Here's a similar article with some more commentary: https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/3/17191 ... ompetition

I guess my main concern about this is the general trend towards mobile. The way this article portrays it, along with recent news about Microsoft seemingly stepping back from Windows, makes me a bit concerned about the future of desktop computing. I guess I just don't really see music production working as well in a mobile format... I'd love to proved wrong, of course.

To me, it seems like it would be very Apple-esque to just say: "Okay, we're using our own chips now, and you all better update your apps or our systems won't support them." Of course, then I suppose it's on every developer to update their stuff, which could be disastrous.

I don't know. I'm just thinking/typing out loud. We'll see what happens!

[Marco Raaphorst]

I guess at least the MacBooks will be using the same stuff that iOS uses. Apple focusses on iPads and iPhones in general, so I guess this all makes sense.

[16BitBear]

Apple's mobile chips are ARM-compatible and the desktop software is x86/x64. These are two widely different architectures. If Apple switches their desktops to ARM CPU's, it will break backwards compatibility with all software. Sure there is an Adobe Photoshop lite app for iOS but will Adobe port all of their applications to the ARM platform? That means they will have to create code that is x86 compatible and ARM compatible. Will Reason go ARM? How about ProTools?

I moved away from Apple over a decade ago because some of us saw the writing on the wall. Apple has always wanted to be Sony, a consumer media corporation. They have been moving away from the desktop professional model for some time. Like it or not, I don't think this is a smart move. And if I was using a Macbook or Mac Pro I would be concerned.

[EdGrip]

I'm sure the format of "desktop" computers will change, but people are always going to need heavy computing power with big screens to get stuff done all day. There will always be machines for doing this kind of stuff, so fear not.

(Conceivably, the future is just a tablet connected to a mouse, keyboard and monitor wirelessly.)

With regard to Apple - I'm sure they know what they're doing (for them), but they have a history of forcing upgrades on users one way or another. The "current" Mac Pro (the black cylinder one) is Apple's only heavy desktop computer that isn't stuck to the back of a big monitor, and it's old and unloved by Apple. I don't think they have much interest in that market, but feel obliged to maintain an offering for "choice of media professionals" reputation reasons.

I think they mainly want to sell iPhones, iPads and Macbooks to people who want to do a bit of music production or a bit of video work. If they can get their iPad hardware powerful enough, I'm sure they'd love to make the MacBook just a deluxe iPad. Likewise the Mac Mini will just become an iPad without a screen.
I wouldn't like to hazard a guess either way regarding the future of Mac Pros and iMacs.

[Heater]

I guess it makes sense for Apple. All their phones, iPads and macs will run the same operating system. Good for developers too.

In the long run I don't know if this is going to be good for music makers or not. I don't have, wait for it, 20/20 vision...

[demt]

foul play by the dirty mac brigade

[normen]

but they have a history of forcing upgrades on users one way or another.

I am not saying this is generally good or true for everybody BUT - I really came to appreciate exactly that about Macs. After having dealt with software and hardware on the windows side for years I REALLY see where they're coming from.

Some examples include:
USB - USB only really came to be when Apple put out an iMac that only had USB ports. They said "deal with it" to the hardware manufacturers which before said "deal with it" to the users - back then USB meant "useless serial bus". And this is true for so many other things. When Apple puts out some new hardware or software protocol then the developers HAVE TO deal with it. They can't tell the user to "get a parallel port card" and ignore the new format because Apple made that impossible.

Drivers - There is only a handful of Mac models out so the hardware manufacturers know EXACTLY what to expect. They can't tell you "Oh you are using the 6239GX Graphics Card with the §"&WTF CPU? Well that doesn't work with our printer, sorry." no YOU can tell them "Guys your shit doesn't work with the newest Macs wtf?"

Theres many more examples like these, forcing updates also forces the economy around the device to update which is beneficial for the user. If the companies have no reason to spend money to "just" improve and update things they simply won't - they're companies after all

So yeah, not saying that Apple are the greatest but with this I really understand and appreciate it.

[EnochLight]

Apple has always wanted to be Sony, a consumer media corporation. They have been moving away from the desktop professional model for some time. Like it or not, I don't think this is a smart move.

The bizarre thing is, Apple is worth far, far more than Sony. As of 2017, Apple was worth about $752 billion USD. Sony? A paltry $40 billion USD.

https://www.forbes.com/companies/apple/

https://www.forbes.com/companies/sony/

Virtually all of that came from the sale of iPhones.

[MikeMcKew]

I had that thought as well, and I'm as not concerned with the hardware side of things - I'm more concerned about operating systems. It's been reported that Windows is organizing their teams to focus more on their businesses that are growing: cloud and subscriptions. Here's that article: http://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how- ... est-reorg/

Problem is, in my view, Windows is still a hot mess and has been for a long time. Is that going to get any better under Microsoft's new organization? I have doubts, whatever they may say... And if macOS goes away to be replaced by iOS at some point, what option does that leave? And I'm not saying that Windows is unusable, it works perfectly fine for me - it's just frustrating at times. I've actually thought about moving to a Mac recently... all of this makes it a bit harder to decide what to do.

I'm sure the format of "desktop" computers will change, but people are always going to need heavy computing power with big screens to get stuff done all day. There will always be machines for doing this kind of stuff, so fear not.

(Conceivably, the future is just a tablet connected to a mouse, keyboard and monitor wirelessly.)

With regard to Apple - I'm sure they know what they're doing (for them), but they have a history of forcing upgrades on users one way or another. The "current" Mac Pro (the black cylinder one) is Apple's only heavy desktop computer that isn't stuck to the back of a big monitor, and it's old and unloved by Apple. I don't think they have much interest in that market, but feel obliged to maintain an offering for "choice of media professionals" reputation reasons.

I think they mainly want to sell iPhones, iPads and Macbooks to people who want to do a bit of music production or a bit of video work. If they can get their iPad hardware powerful enough, I'm sure they'd love to make the MacBook just a deluxe iPad. Likewise the Mac Mini will just become an iPad without a screen.
I wouldn't like to hazard a guess either way regarding the future of Mac Pros and iMacs.

[MikeMcKew]

Isn't the difference there a matter of hardware vs. software? I agree with you in terms of hardware - Apple pushing new standards helps everyone in the end, even if everyone grumbles along the way. I'm not an iPhone user, but I celebrated the death of the headphone jack. I loved that they used only USB-C on the new MacBook Pros. These things are annoying for a lot of people now, but it won't be too long (I think) before we start looking back and saying, "why did we need a headphone jack?"

Software is a different story though. I imagine that there are a lot more software developers than hardware developers who will need to update their products to get in line with whatever Apple's new system is. I would hope that Apple will inform developers prior in order to give them time, but who knows...

I guess what I'm imagining is just a direct port of iOS over to the Mac hardware. That's probably an incorrect way of thinking... but I know if I was spending that much money on Mac hardware, I don't want iOS. I want a fully-fledged desktop operating system.

Now I'm rambling.

but they have a history of forcing upgrades on users one way or another.

I am not saying this is generally good or true for everybody BUT - I really came to appreciate exactly that about Macs. After having dealt with software and hardware on the windows side for years I REALLY see where they're coming from.

Some examples include:
USB - USB only really came to be when Apple put out an iMac that only had USB ports. They said "deal with it" to the hardware manufacturers which before said "deal with it" to the users - back then USB meant "useless serial bus". And this is true for so many other things. When Apple puts out some new hardware or software protocol then the developers HAVE TO deal with it. They can't tell the user to "get a parallel port card" and ignore the new format because Apple made that impossible.

Drivers - There is only a handful of Mac models out so the hardware manufacturers know EXACTLY what to expect. They can't tell you "Oh you are using the 6239GX Graphics Card with the §"&WTF CPU? Well that doesn't work with our printer, sorry." no YOU can tell them "Guys your shit doesn't work with the newest Macs wtf?"

Theres many more examples like these, forcing updates also forces the economy around the device to update which is beneficial for the user. If the companies have no reason to spend money to "just" improve and update things they simply won't - they're companies after all

So yeah, not saying that Apple are the greatest but with this I really understand and appreciate it.

[normen]

Isn't the difference there a matter of hardware vs. software?

Not really, the exact same mechanisms apply. Windows is a flea bag of different APIs like ActiveX, .NET, win32 and whatnot and developers are given too many chances to delay renewing and updating their software. Just look at the adoption rates for new MacOS versions, and don't even mention iOS adoption rates.

[QVprod]

I moved away from Apple over a decade ago because some of us saw the writing on the wall. Apple has always wanted to be Sony, a consumer media corporation. They have been moving away from the desktop professional model for some time. Like it or not, I don't think this is a smart move. And if I was using a Macbook or Mac Pro I would be concerned.

It's worth stating that they're actually currently designing a new modular Mac Pro. Also the new iMac Pro is insanely powerful, especially for those who can afford to max it out. So there is some change in that regard. Of course the consumer stuff will get the most love because most people don't have $5000 to shell out for a computer nor a need for that kind of power.

[EdGrip]

Software companies will simply follow the main operating systems, whatever they may be. So in that sense it doesn't matter if Windows, MacOS, x64 processors, or anything else, go away. When they do it will happen gradually and everyone - developers and consumers - will just transition. It's not like Microsoft announce the end of Windows and all the DAW companies go "ah, fuck it, let's pack it all in".

There'll always be DAWs, and they'll be better and more capable than today's DAWs, so beyond that, why worry?

[bxbrkrz]

I seriously don't know how I feel about this:

https://www.techconnect.com/article/326 ... -2020.html

Thoughts?

It's a logical step to turn everything you sell into an iPhone. The good news is Mac OS XI users will get giant icons on their touch screen. The cash cow is the iPhone not their computers. Pros are using Windows 10 more and more. Cheaper. Does the same thing once you are locked inside your favorite tools for hours. The iPad Pro is already way more powerful than some Windows laptops.

I say good for them. Not an Apple consumer, but I welcome it.

[bxbrkrz]

Apple's mobile chips are ARM-compatible and the desktop software is x86/x64. These are two widely different architectures. If Apple switches their desktops to ARM CPU's, it will break backwards compatibility with all software. Sure there is an Adobe Photoshop lite app for iOS but will Adobe port all of their applications to the ARM platform? That means they will have to create code that is x86 compatible and ARM compatible. Will Reason go ARM? How about ProTools?

I moved away from Apple over a decade ago because some of us saw the writing on the wall. Apple has always wanted to be Sony, a consumer media corporation. They have been moving away from the desktop professional model for some time. Like it or not, I don't think this is a smart move. And if I was using a Macbook or Mac Pro I would be concerned.

This video is not about Apple, but what Apple can do in the future. This is about Windows 10 running on ARM. Today. So I am not worry about Apple doing the switch.