Keyboard action

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
Post Reply
33db
Posts: 71
Joined: 26 Nov 2017

15 Jan 2018

I'm looking for suggestions for a keyboard controller with excellent action and play-ability.
I currently use an older M-Audio keyboard which is "OK", but I want an action that feels good (like my old Ensoniq 16+) not fully weighted, I want a synth action not piano action (fully weighted keys)
Any suggestions?

User avatar
Psuper
Posts: 524
Joined: 29 May 2016

16 Jan 2018

Just so happens I posted in 2009 on Gearslutz. TLDR version is "KX8 all day for weighted action, Fatar for Synthy". Rest as follows:

There's very little information on the web about the KX8. Do a search and you pretty much find these Gearsluts forum posts. I mention this because I'm sure there's many people looking for that 'piano' feel controller like myself, who need something to compliment their piano instrument (Ivory, VST, Rack, Etc).

I have been actively searching, trying out, and researching 88 note controllers (weighted, semi, graded, etc) for over a year, and got to physically test all the ones ranked as affordable and generally well regarded, both new and vintage.

I won't list them all, but if you do your research it usually boils down to Fatar, CME, or Yamaha in the under $1,000 category. I got to try the sl990, the VMK, KX8, and pretty much every 'new' synth and controller just for comparison value, since I wouldn't have minded spending more if I thought I was getting something superior in the function and feel department.

And I settled quite happily on the Yamaha KX8. It's almost impossible to find a KX8, and I almost bought the SL990 just because I didn't think I'd be able to get try the Yamaha and I'd been in piano shops religiously for the last 6 months. There finally came a used one (Jim called me because I was on the 'lists' for any that they'd get in the store) and once I tried it I was shocked in all the right ways.

I had a fairly consistent way of testing every keyboard played over the last year, and I'm not an emotional buyer – I'm practical. As I played for the better part of an hour I tested each key on a variety of rack pianos and software ones. Was there any inconsistencies in velocity or feel/resistance while playing a variety of styles? Did it reflect my soft ballads, medium toying and hard rock as I'd expected? Don't get me wrong, I don't care about “pounding it out” as any board can be played medium or hard with expected results – I'm all about softer subtle play and that was my primary focus. For example, try playing a soft ballad on any Keystation board it's almost Impossible. M-Audio's so-called weighted action will force almost every note at a minimum of around 40 (did I mention I'm even more technical in my practicality – my tests also involved watching the recorded velocity numbers in the software DAWs.). But I'm not trying to trounce other boards, I know people quite happy with keystations – I just want to show I've done my homework and hope to help those now in the same situation I was in.

Anyway, I played the KX8 and did my tests, decided it was likely the board for me and took it home to be safe (They have a 15 day return on used items, so I had nothing to lose). However, I didn't allow myself to emotionally like it until I took it home and tested it on Ivory. And now that I've been playing for a few days I'm immensely glad I managed to find and buy one, and am stunned as to why they discontinued them. I can only suspect that they didn't market it well, especially seeing the lack of info on the board.

The KX8 undoubtedly has the most enjoyable action of any board I've tried in the last year, including many of the high end ones. I grew up with a piano, but have been playing synths in the studio for 20 years. I didn't think I'd miss or benefit much from the more true piano action (in a studio) but I certainly am glad to say I was wrong. I still have synths for anything a piano action cant do which isn't much, just mainly pure note speed.

So now you have another review of the KX8 with some indication of testing methodology, and I hope it helps others in the quest for their controller. Now I'll just throw a few statements down:
  • The Fatar SL990 has a nice action, but it was most definitely more in line with a traditional resistance synth. Imagine a synth with a nice resistant, slightly graded feel and that's the SL990. It's not the truer piano feel the KX8 has, it's in the middle of the synth and piano action. But this isn't a bad thing, I can see where people would prefer this if they weren't used to the piano. The only complaint I had about the Fatar action was I felt the softer velocities were harder to work the way I wanted. For instance, if I was playing a low-medium velocity top(melody) and a very low velocity bottom(bass), it was harder to pull off. I'm sure experience with the board would nullify this, but I am quite used to synth and piano actions.
  • Some older Sustain pedals did not work. Most are 'open' by default and close on depress. You need the reverse for the KX8 and it doesn't auto sense. So you'll need a newer one or one with a polarity switch which is usually new anyway.
  • The transpose is 1 octave and is not a problem in my book. I can transpose via software quite easily, and this won't be used in a live environment.
  • 4 programmable knobs and a separate DAW control make this the perfect amount of control most could reasonably use. I use Reason often enough, and I rarely need more than a few controls, especially since I micromanage riding controls.
  • The constant flashing tempo light is my only gripe, a constantly flashing tempo light just doesn't add anything to this board. I have since covered it with bluetack (This doubles as a tip if it annoys you too!).

The KX8 is hard to find, but its out there. I've seen several online but have not bought because I wanted to try it myself, even though I was fairly certain it was what I was looking for. If I was unable to find one local to play, I would have wished to read something like I just wrote to help me feel comfortable going for it. I hope this has helped, trying to give back a bit as I've been helped while reading these forums.
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

User avatar
QVprod
Moderator
Posts: 3488
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Contact:

16 Jan 2018

Since you're looking for synth action, I've seen good things said here about the Nektar Impact controllers. The Behringer U-Control, has surprisingly decent action, and if you don't mind the smaller keys on the cheaper Roland synths (like the Juno DS), the Roland A800 Pro has the same keys.

User avatar
joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 11029
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

16 Jan 2018

Hey Psuper, I too compared the SL-990 (XP) and KX8 and had the opposite opinion :)
Not sure if the you were referring to the XP model and how much difference it makes...

I like the action and the feel of the keys on the SL-990 XP much better. I also didn't like that the bottom of the KX8 was wood...or particle board? I guess they did that to keep the cost/weight down. It is significantly lighter than the SL-990 XP.

The wheels on the SL are crap though. I opened it up and fixed them a couple times. Then I realized that I don't really need or use them when using an 88 key keyboard for piano action. The keyboard sits below my desk with just the keys jutting out.

That said, I would still happily use either the SL or KX8. Definitely comes down to personal preference and trying them out. And worth mentioning that other 88-key keyboards (in this price range) pale in comparison, such as MAudio or whatever.

As far as synth action, I find I like Roland, Yamaha, anything with Fatar keys. I think Novation uses Fatar.

33db
Posts: 71
Joined: 26 Nov 2017

16 Jan 2018

Psuper wrote:
16 Jan 2018
Just so happens I posted in 2009 on Gearslutz. TLDR version is "KX8 all day for weighted action, Fatar for Synthy". Rest as follows:
Lots of good info thanks, been looking at the Roland A-800 PRO, thew Komplete keyboard but some of the stuff you mentioned has me checking out some other keyboards.

33db
Posts: 71
Joined: 26 Nov 2017

16 Jan 2018

QVprod wrote:
16 Jan 2018
Since you're looking for synth action, I've seen good things said here about the Nektar Impact controllers. The Behringer U-Control, has surprisingly decent action, and if you don't mind the smaller keys on the cheaper Roland synths (like the Juno DS), the Roland A800 Pro has the same keys.
I was checking out Nektar and found this one https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PanoramaP6
The onyl thing keeping me from getting it was the price.

User avatar
michal22
Posts: 212
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Poland

16 Jan 2018

I recommend kort taktile 49. Synthesizer keyboard. A completely different experience than m-audio axiom 49. Unfortunately, the korg does not have aftertouch. Korg has many other features that are good for creating. For me, the keys work very well. Not like in a piano, but like in a synthesizer.
Unfortunately, pads are of low quality in my opinion, although I also read different opinions.
Ableton Live Suite 10 / Reason 10 / Windows 10 / Fingers - also 10 ;)

User avatar
QVprod
Moderator
Posts: 3488
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Contact:

16 Jan 2018

33db wrote:
16 Jan 2018
QVprod wrote:
16 Jan 2018
Since you're looking for synth action, I've seen good things said here about the Nektar Impact controllers. The Behringer U-Control, has surprisingly decent action, and if you don't mind the smaller keys on the cheaper Roland synths (like the Juno DS), the Roland A800 Pro has the same keys.
I was checking out Nektar and found this one https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PanoramaP6
The onyl thing keeping me from getting it was the price.
I figured you were trying to stay on the cheaper end. I have one myself. I happen to like the keys but they have a very unique feel to them. I don't use most of the Reason functionality but it's worth the price.

User avatar
raymondh
Posts: 1776
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

16 Jan 2018

I like the keybed on the M-Audio Code range.
When I was auditioning keybeds in the local music store my criteria was;
- what felt like an instrument rather than a computer peripheral
- built-in, sensitive drum pads
- good feel in the sliders and other controllers

I got the Code 64. Several months down the track;
- I still like all the pretty lights :)
- I never use the drum pads
- I hardly ever use the sliders/control surface
- I really, really like the keybed
- I wish the aftertouch was a bit more sensitive, but not a big problem.
- I wish the sliders/control surface were automatically mapped (like Nektar products), but even if they were, I'm not sure I'd use them!

stp2015
Posts: 323
Joined: 02 Feb 2016

16 Jan 2018

QVprod wrote:
16 Jan 2018
Since you're looking for synth action, I've seen good things said here about the Nektar Impact controllers. The Behringer U-Control, has surprisingly decent action, and if you don't mind the smaller keys on the cheaper Roland synths (like the Juno DS), the Roland A800 Pro has the same keys.
I could not disagree more. In fact I will say this: Whatever you do, do not buy a Nektar Impact. The keys are noisy, wobbly and low quality. The reason to buy a Nektar is the Reason integration, but not the keys.

Keyboards I would recommend:
-Akai MPK249
-Roland A49

Both of these have excellent high quality synth style keys. The Roland is quite cheap at around 150 USD, the MPK249 is more expensive but it has a lot of other nice features. My recommendation is: Go to your local guitar center etc and actually try these out.

User avatar
Psuper
Posts: 524
Joined: 29 May 2016

16 Jan 2018

joeyluck wrote:
16 Jan 2018
Hey Psuper, I too compared the SL-990 (XP) and KX8 and had the opposite opinion :)
Not sure if the you were referring to the XP model and how much difference it makes...

I like the action and the feel of the keys on the SL-990 XP much better. I also didn't like that the bottom of the KX8 was wood...or particle board? I guess they did that to keep the cost/weight down. It is significantly lighter than the SL-990 XP.

The wheels on the SL are crap though. I opened it up and fixed them a couple times. Then I realized that I don't really need or use them when using an 88 key keyboard for piano action. The keyboard sits below my desk with just the keys jutting out.

That said, I would still happily use either the SL or KX8. Definitely comes down to personal preference and trying them out. And worth mentioning that other 88-key keyboards (in this price range) pale in comparison, such as MAudio or whatever.

As far as synth action, I find I like Roland, Yamaha, anything with Fatar keys. I think Novation uses Fatar.
Haha same, I have the mpk249 literally right above the KX8 covering its panels and never bother with anything else on the controller, just the keys.

Its been awhile however I was going to go with the Fatar till I got to try the KX8. I cant recall if it was the XP or not, however the 990 action was hands down best 'middle of the road' Id found and totally agree they both have their place. I play a lot of ballads, and the kx8 oh so creamy light touch heaven for my playstyle.

I may still get it one day but I haven't been shopping for one since then. The KX8 is great for pure piano, MPK249 great for midi functionality control surface, I may "need" another full size one and I never forgot about when I first tried the Fatar.. Also the Roli, but that would just be greedy of me!
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

User avatar
paulred67
Posts: 100
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Kosice, Slovakia

17 Jan 2018

If you don't need a lot of faders/knobs/pads, I would recommend Roland A-49. It's cheap and keys are very good for synth sounds. I have it (along with Roland A-88 for piano sounds) and I am more than happy with both of them. But be aware that they don't have aftertouch.
Studio One 6, Melodyne 5 Studio, Nord Stage, Roland RD-88, VR-730, Jupiter-Xm, JD-08, Arturia V Collection X, Pigments 5, Korg Collection 3, East West Cloud, Sampletank 4, Miroslav Philharmonic 2, Syntronik, Sampletron, Hammond B-3X, Blue 3, Pianoteq.

User avatar
QVprod
Moderator
Posts: 3488
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Contact:

17 Jan 2018

Psuper wrote:
16 Jan 2018
joeyluck wrote:
16 Jan 2018
Hey Psuper, I too compared the SL-990 (XP) and KX8 and had the opposite opinion :)
Not sure if the you were referring to the XP model and how much difference it makes...

I like the action and the feel of the keys on the SL-990 XP much better. I also didn't like that the bottom of the KX8 was wood...or particle board? I guess they did that to keep the cost/weight down. It is significantly lighter than the SL-990 XP.

The wheels on the SL are crap though. I opened it up and fixed them a couple times. Then I realized that I don't really need or use them when using an 88 key keyboard for piano action. The keyboard sits below my desk with just the keys jutting out.

That said, I would still happily use either the SL or KX8. Definitely comes down to personal preference and trying them out. And worth mentioning that other 88-key keyboards (in this price range) pale in comparison, such as MAudio or whatever.

As far as synth action, I find I like Roland, Yamaha, anything with Fatar keys. I think Novation uses Fatar.
Haha same, I have the mpk249 literally right above the KX8 covering its panels and never bother with anything else on the controller, just the keys.

Its been awhile however I was going to go with the Fatar till I got to try the KX8. I cant recall if it was the XP or not, however the 990 action was hands down best 'middle of the road' Id found and totally agree they both have their place. I play a lot of ballads, and the kx8 oh so creamy light touch heaven for my playstyle.

I may still get it one day but I haven't been shopping for one since then. The KX8 is great for pure piano, MPK249 great for midi functionality control surface, I may "need" another full size one and I never forgot about when I first tried the Fatar.. Also the Roli, but that would just be greedy of me!
I think it's fair to mention that the KX8 has the same great action (Graded Hammer) as the all Yamaha Digital pianos and Workstations below the price range of the (now discontinued) Motif series. I've seen some claim the SL series had a more Motif-like action (Balanced Hammer Effect) which isn't necessarily better than the GH action but fairly different. GH was a bit more piano-like having heavier keys at the bottom whereas BHE has evenly weighted keys across the keyboard. I have an Arturia Keylab 88 with a Fatar keybed and it indeed feels evenly balanced across the keyboard. It's been a while since I played an 88 key Motif to compare though.

33db
Posts: 71
Joined: 26 Nov 2017

18 Jan 2018

paulred67 wrote:
17 Jan 2018
If you don't need a lot of faders/knobs/pads, I would recommend Roland A-49. It's cheap and keys are very good for synth sounds. I have it (along with Roland A-88 for piano sounds) and I am more than happy with both of them. But be aware that they don't have aftertouch.
I checked out the Rolands and I like the A-800 (I need at least 61 keys).
Currently, after looking at so many keyboards over the last week I'm sort of dazed...

Post Reply
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests