Intel chip massive security flaw

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
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aeox
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04 Jan 2018

Can't I just not update windows and keep the same performance? I'm not concerned with any security flaws. I'm a nobody :P

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Exowildebeest
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04 Jan 2018

aeox wrote:
04 Jan 2018
Can't I just not update windows and keep the same performance? I'm not concerned with any security flaws. I'm a nobody :P
Not really, unless you disconnect your Windows pc from the internet forever from now on. This update is going to be pushed down everyone's throat hard.

It's amusing to think about the global impact - the entire world's computing power is going to dip very slightly in the coming weeks because so many chips are affected :lol: ( yesyes of course I understand it'll be more like a reduction of the growth rate in total computing power)

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aeox
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04 Jan 2018

Exowildebeest wrote:
04 Jan 2018
aeox wrote:
04 Jan 2018
Can't I just not update windows and keep the same performance? I'm not concerned with any security flaws. I'm a nobody :P
Not really, unless you disconnect your Windows pc from the internet forever from now on. This update is going to be pushed down everyone's throat hard.

It's amusing to think about the global impact - the entire world's computing power is going to dip very slightly in the coming weeks because so many chips are affected :lol: ( yesyes of course I understand it'll be more like a reduction of the growth rate in total computing power)
My OS hard drive is full. It will have trouble updating :)

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brand
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05 Jan 2018

Here's one thing I'm wondering:
So far I've avoided upgrading to High Sierra because of certain things I've heard with Reason compatibility. So far, so good. I have a very new iMac (purchased this past Summer) which came with Sierra. Using reason 10.(most recent).

Now, I see that Apple said that they had supposedly rolled out some "mitigations" in High Sierra before, and probably some more to come now. Any opinions on going to High Sierra at this point? Or maybe we will be able to load just updates related to these processor issues (I doubt it)...

EdGrip
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05 Jan 2018

Hello.
Househoppin - I suspect you're not going to get the data you crave. You can keep refreshing this and the other thread, but probably your best bet will be to start reading the less specific music production forums like Gearslutz and KVR. Try searching forums for Ableton and Pro Tools for this subject, as they have far more users than Reason.

My view is the patch will happen, whether you like it or not, both on Mac and Windows. So all this is a bit like asking on a knitting forum what effect the continued rotation of the Earth has on wool.

EdGrip
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Joined: 03 Jun 2016

05 Jan 2018

King Canute looks out to sea, wearing a worried expression. He asks a passer-by walking a dog,
"Excuse me, have you any experience with the tide? I need to know if it's a good idea or not. I would do some tests myself, but I'm wearing my good shoes."

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AttenuationHz
Posts: 2048
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05 Jan 2018

EdGrip wrote:
05 Jan 2018
Hello.
Househoppin - I suspect you're not going to get the data you crave. You can keep refreshing this and the other thread, but probably your best bet will be to start reading the less specific music production forums like Gearslutz and KVR. Try searching forums for Ableton and Pro Tools for this subject, as they have far more users than Reason.

My view is the patch will happen, whether you like it or not, both on Mac and Windows. So all this is a bit like asking on a knitting forum what effect the continued rotation of the Earth has on wool.
Well the effect the earth has on the continued rotation of earth is it keeps it in production. If the earth was not rotating nobody would be alive. Those that would have the sun would have a hard time keeping crops!
It is not too much of an ask for people or things to be the best version of itself!

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esselfortium
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05 Jan 2018

brand wrote:
05 Jan 2018
Here's one thing I'm wondering:
So far I've avoided upgrading to High Sierra because of certain things I've heard with Reason compatibility. So far, so good. I have a very new iMac (purchased this past Summer) which came with Sierra. Using reason 10.(most recent).

Now, I see that Apple said that they had supposedly rolled out some "mitigations" in High Sierra before, and probably some more to come now. Any opinions on going to High Sierra at this point? Or maybe we will be able to load just updates related to these processor issues (I doubt it)...
From what I understand, they’ve released a security update for Sierra 10.12.6 as well, and I think also for El Capitan.
Sarah Mancuso
My music: Future Human

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brand
Posts: 131
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Location: New Jersey, US

05 Jan 2018

esselfortium wrote:
05 Jan 2018

From what I understand, they’ve released a security update for Sierra 10.12.6 as well, and I think also for El Capitan.
That would be good. I still have a High Sierra phobia...maybe that's stupid, but anyhow... :)

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Marco Raaphorst
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05 Jan 2018

check this:


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AttenuationHz
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05 Jan 2018

It is not too much of an ask for people or things to be the best version of itself!

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aeox
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05 Jan 2018

I hope this means sandy bridge xeons tank in price so I can get my upgrade for really cheap :)

grueser3
Posts: 64
Joined: 03 Jul 2016

05 Jan 2018

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
05 Jan 2018
check this:



Thanks Marco, that was informative, something even I could wrap my head around.

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fieldframe
RE Developer
Posts: 1037
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05 Jan 2018

esselfortium wrote:
05 Jan 2018
brand wrote:
05 Jan 2018
Here's one thing I'm wondering:
So far I've avoided upgrading to High Sierra because of certain things I've heard with Reason compatibility. So far, so good. I have a very new iMac (purchased this past Summer) which came with Sierra. Using reason 10.(most recent).

Now, I see that Apple said that they had supposedly rolled out some "mitigations" in High Sierra before, and probably some more to come now. Any opinions on going to High Sierra at this point? Or maybe we will be able to load just updates related to these processor issues (I doubt it)...
From what I understand, they’ve released a security update for Sierra 10.12.6 as well, and I think also for El Capitan.
That's correct, the mitigations extend to El Capitan: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208331

If you updated MacOS in December, you already have the mitigations.

househoppin09
Posts: 536
Joined: 03 Aug 2016

05 Jan 2018

EdGrip wrote:
05 Jan 2018
Hello.
Househoppin - I suspect you're not going to get the data you crave. You can keep refreshing this and the other thread, but probably your best bet will be to start reading the less specific music production forums like Gearslutz and KVR. Try searching forums for Ableton and Pro Tools for this subject, as they have far more users than Reason.

My view is the patch will happen, whether you like it or not, both on Mac and Windows. So all this is a bit like asking on a knitting forum what effect the continued rotation of the Earth has on wool.
Thanks, but of course I'm already following the other forums. They have relatively few Reason users compared to ReasonTalk, though, so I'd think it would be easier to get Reason-specific reports here. I'd rather not rely on an assumption that every DAW will be affected the same as every other. All Win10 users should have the patch imminently if they don't already, so I really can't see why it should be so difficult to get a few quick check-ins from people who have the patch?

As far as King Canute and the futility of tilting at windmills--while I appreciate your eloquence, I don't really get your point. Yes, sooner or later I'll have to apply the patch, but I can (and certainly will!) put it off until I'm done with my current round of projects if I hear reports that performance is impacted. If there's a negligible performance hit, on the other hand, then I'd much rather apply the patch right away and get it over with.

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moneykube
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05 Jan 2018

[/quote]

From what I understand, they’ve released a security update for Sierra 10.12.6 as well, and I think also for El Capitan.
[/quote]

I wonder if this caused my computer to slow down... too slow messages that didn'y happen with racks before :?: :?: :idea: :?:
timing is about right... and support appears to have no answers presently
https://soundcloud.com/moneykube-qube/s ... d-playlist
Proud Member Of The Awesome League Of Perpetuals

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AttenuationHz
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06 Jan 2018

What I found interesting is that the bug only happens for AMD on a specially configured version of Linux that allows the bug to occur. How many users would be on Linux though and that configured version.
It is not too much of an ask for people or things to be the best version of itself!

RandyEspoda
Posts: 275
Joined: 14 Mar 2017

06 Jan 2018

Exowildebeest wrote:
04 Jan 2018
Here's my Geekbench benchmarks for 8700k on Win10:

Before patch:

Single-core - 6092
Multi-core - 27336

After patch:

Single-core - 6057
Multi-core - 27120

There seems to be some loss of performance in this benchmark test, but not much. It remains unclear how audio workloads/Reason are affected. Audio workloads are woefully underrepresented in benchmark tests - it's all video, games, physics, cryptography and whatnot. And I did not have time yesterday to figure out some pre-patch Reason benchmark.

Let's hope the difference won't be noticable in everyday audio use.

Edit: don't read too much into these scores, as it's unclear which tasks in the benchmark cause the lower score. For all I know, on task may be massively slower while the others are faster. I'll have to look at the entire table of results and see if I can find any differences that stand out.

Edit2: most significant slowdowns I can find are in JPEG and PDF rendering and HTML5 parse, -3 to -5 % give or take. I think this relates to accessing my nvme SSD. I don't think that'll be the bottleneck for audio rendering.
Would you be willing to do a quick test in Reason, but both with HT off and ON ? I suspect with HT on the perf.loss will be more noticable.
I haven't installed the update yet, otherwise I'd do it myself. I have a first gen i7 which doesn't yet have the nopcid instructions so it will be affected worse if I install it. If you're having a 3-5% loss, than probably for me that would be at least double...

For those who don't realise, including those saying "Chill, relax" do not include the fact that many of us still have 'pre' Haswell chips that are affected worse because they lack the nopcid instruction, which is used to mitigate the issue.

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/2 ... =Computing

grueser3
Posts: 64
Joined: 03 Jul 2016

06 Jan 2018

RandyEspoda wrote:
06 Jan 2018
Exowildebeest wrote:
04 Jan 2018
Here's my Geekbench benchmarks for 8700k on Win10:

Before patch:

Single-core - 6092
Multi-core - 27336

After patch:

Single-core - 6057
Multi-core - 27120



There seems to be some loss of performance in this benchmark test, but not much. It remains unclear how audio workloads/Reason are affected. Audio workloads are woefully underrepresented in benchmark tests - it's all video, games, physics, cryptography and whatnot. And I did not have time yesterday to figure out some pre-patch Reason benchmark.

Let's hope the difference won't be noticable in everyday audio use.

Edit: don't read too much into these scores, as it's unclear which tasks in the benchmark cause the lower score. For all I know, on task may be massively slower while the others are faster. I'll have to look at the entire table of results and see if I can find any differences that stand out.

Edit2: most significant slowdowns I can find are in JPEG and PDF rendering and HTML5 parse, -3 to -5 % give or take. I think this relates to accessing my nvme SSD. I don't think that'll be the bottleneck for audio rendering.
Would you be willing to do a quick test in Reason, but both with HT off and ON ? I suspect with HT on the perf.loss will be more noticable.
I haven't installed the update yet, otherwise I'd do it myself. I have a first gen i7 which doesn't yet have the nopcid instructions so it will be affected worse if I install it. If you're having a 3-5% loss, than probably for me that would be at least double...

For those who don't realise, including those saying "Chill, relax" do not include the fact that many of us still have 'pre' Haswell chips that are affected worse because they lack the nopcid instruction, which is used to mitigate the issue.

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/2 ... =Computing


I too would be curious if anyone else has done a before and after test. I’m assuming the older the chip the worse the performance, but is it noticeable in the newer chips? Or nothing to worry about?

illone
Posts: 39
Joined: 23 Jan 2015

07 Jan 2018

splangie wrote:
04 Jan 2018
ugg -

"Intel's stock took a small hit this week, but making matters even more uncomfortable, Intel CEO Brian Krzanich sold off $24 million worth of stock and options in the company in late November. Intel was already aware of the chip vulnerability then."

https://www.techspot.com/news/72576-mas ... -what.html
If true, anyone know why this wouldn't be considered insider trading?

--illone

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riemac
Posts: 571
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Location: Germany

07 Jan 2018

illone wrote:
07 Jan 2018
splangie wrote:
04 Jan 2018
ugg -

"Intel's stock took a small hit this week, but making matters even more uncomfortable, Intel CEO Brian Krzanich sold off $24 million worth of stock and options in the company in late November. Intel was already aware of the chip vulnerability then."

https://www.techspot.com/news/72576-mas ... -what.html
If true, anyone know why this wouldn't be considered insider trading?

--illone
His argument is, that he sold after a selling plan.

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demt
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07 Jan 2018

Hmm right in the middle of doubling the power of my computer.
Explained if asked.mind over matter and science combined.,I surprise what I'm trying to say is it's sutch a minimal hit to performance compared to this double your power trick.
Reason 12 ,gear4 music sdp3 stage piano .nektar gxp 88,behringer umc1800 .line6 spider4 30
hear scince reason 2.5

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AttenuationHz
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07 Jan 2018

This is an interesting video completely unrelated to the bug.

It is not too much of an ask for people or things to be the best version of itself!

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AttenuationHz
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Location: Back of the Rack-1

07 Jan 2018

It is not too much of an ask for people or things to be the best version of itself!

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starship
RE Developer
Posts: 194
Joined: 04 Sep 2015

07 Jan 2018

RandyEspoda wrote:
06 Jan 2018
Would you be willing to do a quick test in Reason, but both with HT off and ON ? I suspect with HT on the perf.loss will be more noticable.
I haven't installed the update yet, otherwise I'd do it myself. I have a first gen i7 which doesn't yet have the nopcid instructions so it will be affected worse if I install it. If you're having a 3-5% loss, than probably for me that would be at least double...

For those who don't realise, including those saying "Chill, relax" do not include the fact that many of us still have 'pre' Haswell chips that are affected worse because they lack the nopcid instruction, which is used to mitigate the issue.

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/2 ... =Computing
Agreed with this sentiment. I have an old i5 760, just bought an i7 (860?) that can fit in its motherboard socket... and ... I don't even know if hyperthreading helps with that cpu. :) Does turning it on actually improve performance?

In the category of dumb impulse ebay purchases... especially in light of this new bug and/or I didn't even check to see if HT worked with that chip. :) lol

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