R.I.P. Cakewalk.

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
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sublunar
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Joined: 27 Apr 2017

30 Nov 2017

Since arguing minute details is so much fun around here, apparently, let's continue arguing. In the minutest detail possible.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
I think there is some confusion here.
No confusion.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
No, we can't use Line 6 devices in Reason 9+ (the Reason devices that is).
Correct.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
But I can use my RE-2A that I own as a RE and it's not leaving anybody's account.
Currently yes. That seems to be correct, but I'm just an end user so it's pure speculation as far as I know. It's probably not going anywhere. Also, Reason 10.5 is probably going to be awesome.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
If you are implying that the Rig Bundle won't be as good of an offer to future customers
Correct.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
and maybe it will be supplemented with something else...
Maybe. Probably. Who knows, we're just end users.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
I don't think current customers care as much because they have and will keep what they bought.
Probably correct.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
What you bought with your Rig Bundle is not going to change.
Probably correct.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
When and if the Rig Bundle is updated it will not change what you have in your account
Probably correct.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
(unless it adds).
Not sure what you mean.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
So bringing up Line 6 isn't relevant here...
Perhaps?
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
....because RE-2A stays in your account/rack.
What's the historical precedent for this? You say it's not relevant because the item stays in your account/rack. I haven't been around RE's long enough to know if there is precedent. All I have for reference is the Line 6 amp situation. Lots of people were unhappy about that. Here we have a company who, unlike Line 6, is actually going under. Cakewalk is dead.

I was just commenting my displeasure and somehow that turned into an argument.

So educate me with some historical precedent instead of just telling me the concern isn't relevant. Thanks.

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joeyluck
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30 Nov 2017

sublunar wrote:
30 Nov 2017
Since arguing minute details is so much fun around here, apparently, let's continue arguing. In the minutest detail possible.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
I think there is some confusion here.
No confusion.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
No, we can't use Line 6 devices in Reason 9+ (the Reason devices that is).
Correct.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
But I can use my RE-2A that I own as a RE and it's not leaving anybody's account.
Currently yes. That seems to be correct, but I'm just an end user so it's pure speculation as far as I know. It's probably not going anywhere. Also, Reason 10.5 is probably going to be awesome.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
If you are implying that the Rig Bundle won't be as good of an offer to future customers
Correct.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
and maybe it will be supplemented with something else...
Maybe. Probably. Who knows, we're just end users.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
I don't think current customers care as much because they have and will keep what they bought.
Probably correct.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
What you bought with your Rig Bundle is not going to change.
Probably correct.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
When and if the Rig Bundle is updated it will not change what you have in your account
Probably correct.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
(unless it adds).
Not sure what you mean.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
So bringing up Line 6 isn't relevant here...
Perhaps?
joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
....because RE-2A stays in your account/rack.
What's the historical precedent for this? You say it's not relevant because the item stays in your account/rack. I haven't been around RE's long enough to know if there is precedent. All I have for reference is the Line 6 amp situation. Lots of people were unhappy about that. Here we have a company who, unlike Line 6, is actually going under. Cakewalk is dead.

I was just commenting my displeasure and somehow that turned into an argument.

So educate me with some historical precedent instead of just telling me the concern isn't relevant. Thanks.
See the original Crapre, MC-1 Cowbell, ABL2, and all the Black and Orange REs as examples. This isn't the first time something has been pulled from the shop. It's not the first time a company has shutdown.

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EnochLight
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30 Nov 2017

sublunar wrote:
30 Nov 2017
No idea why we're arguing now. Maybe this forum just makes people want to argue. IDK.

Can you still use your line 6 amp in Reason? That's the point I was getting at. Sorry for ever commenting.
Huh? We're not arguing at all! Well, at least I didn't think we were. I was just commenting on the removal of a previously purchased RE from the shop is very different from the removal of a built-in Reason device through a 3rd party from Reason itself. I don't understand why people think this is the same thing, is all.

We're all good, though.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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Soft Enerji
Posts: 407
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Location: East Lismore, NSW Australia

03 Dec 2017

R.I.P indeed. Splat has been my main DAW for a while now and I'll continue to use it until I no longer can. Sad! :puf_unhappy:

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Grumbleweed
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04 Dec 2017

Soft Enerji wrote:
03 Dec 2017
R.I.P indeed. Splat has been my main DAW for a while now and I'll continue to use it until I no longer can. Sad! :puf_unhappy:
I jumped to Cubase - it just feels dirty using an unsupported product! I was getting itchy feet anyway (for reasons that aren't that clear to me!).

Have to say that Sonar had turned into a clever, stable beast that I will miss. If it had died at X1 or X2 (I don't remember which one of them was absolute cr@p) I wouldn't have given a monkey's wang-piece.

Grum.

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etyrnal
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04 Dec 2017

EnochLight wrote:
sublunar wrote:
30 Nov 2017
No idea why we're arguing now. Maybe this forum just makes people want to argue. IDK.

Can you still use your line 6 amp in Reason? That's the point I was getting at. Sorry for ever commenting.
Huh? We're not arguing at all! Well, at least I didn't think we were. I was just commenting on the removal of a previously purchased RE from the shop is very different from the removal of a built-in Reason device through a 3rd party from Reason itself. I don't understand why people think this is the same thing, is all.

We're all good, though.
I don't think either removal is right. People write music maybe years worth of music using these devices, and when they are removed, weather removed from reason itself, or something that is paid for from the store, people's personal musical compositions are damaged or destroyed or lost. It's a dick move for them to be pulled. I don't ever recall being told when purchasing any rack extensions, or when purchasing reason, that this was a possibility.

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QVprod
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04 Dec 2017

etyrnal wrote:
04 Dec 2017
I don't think either removal is right. People write music maybe years worth of music using these devices, and when they are removed, weather removed from reason itself, or something that is paid for from the store, people's personal musical compositions are damaged or destroyed or lost. It's a dick move for them to be pulled. I don't ever recall being told when purchasing any rack extensions, or when purchasing reason, that this was a possibility.
There's a large misunderstanding here. Everyone who purchased the RE2A from the shop or got it free during that promotion can still use it. They'll always be able to use it as long as Propellerhead exists. It being removed from the shop just means that no one else can purchase it. No one's musical compositions are affected by it being pulled from the shop. It's a very different situation from the Line 6 removal.

Mine is both still in my rack and still in my account

Image Image

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EnochLight
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04 Dec 2017

QVprod wrote:
04 Dec 2017
There's a large misunderstanding here. Everyone who purchased the RE2A from the shop or got it free during that promotion can still use it. They'll always be able to use it as long as Propellerhead exists. It being removed from the shop just means that no one else can purchase it. No one's musical compositions are affected by it being pulled from the shop. It's a very different situation from the Line 6 removal.

Mine is both still in my rack and still in my account

Image Image
^^ THIS ^^
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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Soft Enerji
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Location: East Lismore, NSW Australia

05 Dec 2017

Grumbleweed wrote:
04 Dec 2017
Soft Enerji wrote:
03 Dec 2017
R.I.P indeed. Splat has been my main DAW for a while now and I'll continue to use it until I no longer can. Sad! :puf_unhappy:
I jumped to Cubase - it just feels dirty using an unsupported product! I was getting itchy feet anyway (for reasons that aren't that clear to me!).

Have to say that Sonar had turned into a clever, stable beast that I will miss. If it had died at X1 or X2 (I don't remember which one of them was absolute cr@p) I wouldn't have given a monkey's wang-piece.

Grum.
I went from 7 to 8.5 to X1 to X3 then to Splat......I think it was X2 that got the bad press from memory. I love Spat! It just works so well. I recently bought a Steinberg audio interface but haven't installed the (lite) version of Cubase that came with it. Nah.......don't think I'll even bother. If my Splat does eventually become unusable I'll revert back to good ol' Reason as my main station :-)

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tumar
Posts: 385
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

05 Dec 2017

There is crossgrade offer for Cakewalk Sonar users: for 149 USD to full Studio One 3 Pro.

https://www.jrrshop.com/presonus-studio ... ssgrade-v3

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benjified
Posts: 69
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Location: Toronto
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05 Dec 2017

Damn I remember that promotion and I forgot to follow up with someone because I ended up with the VST not the Rack extension. I haven't used Reason much so I forgot about the promotion thingy. Now I can't buy the RE, shame. I wonder if I can exchange the VST license for a RE one...

avasopht
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05 Dec 2017

sublunar wrote:
30 Nov 2017

No idea why we're arguing now. Maybe this forum just makes people want to argue. IDK.

Can you still use your line 6 amp in Reason? That's the point I was getting at. Sorry for ever commenting.
Thing is, the difference between Line6 and REs has been explained to death by RE developers who have seen the developer agreements, so understand the license well enough.

Basically, if you've purchased an RE, it's yours for good on all platforms now and tomorrow that Reason supports :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up:

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JiggeryPokery
RE Developer
Posts: 1174
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07 Dec 2017

QVprod wrote:
04 Dec 2017
etyrnal wrote:
04 Dec 2017
I don't think either removal is right. People write music maybe years worth of music using these devices, and when they are removed, weather removed from reason itself, or something that is paid for from the store, people's personal musical compositions are damaged or destroyed or lost. It's a dick move for them to be pulled. I don't ever recall being told when purchasing any rack extensions, or when purchasing reason, that this was a possibility.
There's a large misunderstanding here. Everyone who purchased the RE2A from the shop or got it free during that promotion can still use it. They'll always be able to use it as long as Propellerhead exists. It being removed from the shop just means that no one else can purchase it. No one's musical compositions are affected by it being pulled from the shop. It's a very different situation from the Line 6 removal.

Mine is both still in my rack and still in my account

Image Image
Everytime I see my account page I find it odd that removing the shop page has to remove the thumbnail image. It would have been nice if they could have been independent; now it just looks like an unreleased beta device.

Regarding device continuity, I do wonder if people are being a bit presumptive and naive about devices always being present. The Line6 debacle proved definitively that devices can and will be removed at any time. Even in 2014 or 15, Reason was advertised as song files always being forward-compatible, even after Line6 amp removal was announced. Now sure, those were native devices, and there is currently no precedent in terms of REs; devices removed from the shop remain in license-holders accounts. But before L6 amps were removed, there was no precedent for removing native devices, either. So I really don't see how anyone can say with any authority it can never happen. Simply, no-one knows.

But it's very easy to imagine a scenario of a copyright holder suing PH for an "infringing" device, even where the device was produced by a second party, and as a result that device is pulled from all accounts (although obviously a device owner could simply never resync Authoriser again ;) ).

PH didn't fight for ReBirth at the threat legal action, and this for a product that had been around for 20 years, and had been well-regarded by the original 303 creators. So it's totally conceivable any legal threat demanding removal from accounts too is unlikely to be fought.

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EnochLight
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07 Dec 2017

JiggeryPokery wrote:
07 Dec 2017
Everytime I see my account page I find it odd that removing the shop page has to remove the thumbnail image. It would have been nice if they could have been independent; now it just looks like an unreleased beta device.

Regarding device continuity, I do wonder if people are being a bit presumptive and naive about devices always being present. The Line6 debacle proved definitively that devices can and will be removed at any time. Even in 2014 or 15, Reason was advertised as song files always being forward-compatible, even after Line6 amp removal was announced. Now sure, those were native devices, and there is currently no precedent in terms of REs; devices removed from the shop remain in license-holders accounts. But before L6 amps were removed, there was no precedent for removing native devices, either. So I really don't see how anyone can say with any authority it can never happen. Simply, no-one knows.

But it's very easy to imagine a scenario of a copyright holder suing PH for an infringing device, even where the device was produced by a second party, and as a result that device is pulled from all accounts (although obviously a device owner could simply never resync Authoriser again ;) ).
I agree that missing thumbnails is irritating (Black & Orange comes to mind long before Cakewalk disappeared), but while no one can say with authority, we can make some pretty solid assumptions. Line6 devices were not RE's, this is common knowledge. They were under a completely different licensing agreement, and we can be confident that the licensing agreement devs such as yourself agreed to for RE's make pulling products from the shop unrelated to pulling them from paying customer's racks.

Again, I'll refer to my Pontiac automobile analogy: when Pontiac went bust, they didn't take back all of the cars they sold prior (nor could they do so). ;)

As a point of reference, back in the day when someone (who shall remain nameless) made a stink with U-He because of the Uhbik device performance issues/bugs, Urs solidly stated he was out doing RE's from now on, regrets releasing the buggy Uhbik RE's, and planned to have them pulled from the shop. He never did, but even if he did - everyone who bought them still keeps them.

I really feel all of this "what if" pondering is a lot of ballyhoo. People should relax. I'd be more concerned about Propellerhead going bust than stuff being pulled from our racks.
JiggeryPokery wrote:
07 Dec 2017
PH didn't fight for ReBirth at the threat legal action, and this for a product that had been around for 20 years, and had been well-regarded by the original 303 creators. So it's totally conceivable any legal threat demanding removal from accounts too is unlikely to be fought.
This was a unique situation that has absolutely no comparison to RE's being sold in the shop.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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joeyluck
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07 Dec 2017

JiggeryPokery wrote:
07 Dec 2017
QVprod wrote:
04 Dec 2017


There's a large misunderstanding here. Everyone who purchased the RE2A from the shop or got it free during that promotion can still use it. They'll always be able to use it as long as Propellerhead exists. It being removed from the shop just means that no one else can purchase it. No one's musical compositions are affected by it being pulled from the shop. It's a very different situation from the Line 6 removal.

Mine is both still in my rack and still in my account

Image Image
Everytime I see my account page I find it odd that removing the shop page has to remove the thumbnail image. It would have been nice if they could have been independent; now it just looks like an unreleased beta device.

Regarding device continuity, I do wonder if people are being a bit presumptive and naive about devices always being present. The Line6 debacle proved definitively that devices can and will be removed at any time. Even in 2014 or 15, Reason was advertised as song files always being forward-compatible, even after Line6 amp removal was announced. Now sure, those were native devices, and there is currently no precedent in terms of REs; devices removed from the shop remain in license-holders accounts. But before L6 amps were removed, there was no precedent for removing native devices, either. So I really don't see how anyone can say with any authority it can never happen. Simply, no-one knows.

But it's very easy to imagine a scenario of a copyright holder suing PH for an infringing device, even where the device was produced by a second party, and as a result that device is pulled from all accounts (although obviously a device owner could simply never resync Authoriser again ;) ).
Well I guess the similarity with Line 6, is that future versions of Reason available for purchase simply don't include them; just like future possibilities of buying RE-2A from the shop.

Line 6 technically was never "removed" from what we purchased. Those devices are still there in Reason 8 and previous.

It's unfortunate about the future compatibility. At this point though, I have little to no projects left now that I haven't updated with replacement devices for Line 6 stuff. But I have never had anything removed from what I purchased.

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EnochLight
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07 Dec 2017

I do miss the Line6 stuff, and it's the only reason I keep 8.x installed on my machine along side 10. I know there are better amp cabs out there (and I have most of them), but I liked the Line6 device's ability to add so many other setups through the Line6 Monkey, and their tweakability.

Dimi at Kuassa has been doing a stand-up job introducing Combi patches emulating famous guitarists, though.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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miscend
Posts: 1955
Joined: 09 Feb 2015

21 Apr 2018

tanni wrote:
22 Nov 2017
Marco Raaphorst wrote:
21 Nov 2017
I bought Sonar many years ago. Wasn't able to finish one track on it. Crashed such a lot. I know some people who were successful with that program but not me.

Must say I LOVE the RE-2A.
I have heard that the RE-2A or CA-2A are coded by softube and cakewalk only licenced it. So this wouldn't be a surprise if the Compressor sounds good.
No it wasn’t Softube. Softube have done very accurate LA2A emulations. The Cakewalk one doesn’t actually behave like a hardware opto cell.

The guy that coded RE-2A/PC-2A/CA-2A is the guy that coded Sononics Revival and GSX Rack Extensions. He was a former developer at Cakewalk before he started making Rack Extensions. He was very active on the old PUF. His LinkedIn below:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-currie-profile/

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selig
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21 Apr 2018

miscend wrote: No it wasn’t Softube. Softube have done very accurate LA2A emulations. The Cakewalk one doesn’t actually behave like a hardware opto cell.
I’ve only just started working with the RE2A in Reason, and it sounds like an opto compressor to me. Prefer it over the McDSP Moo for many things. As always, it should be pointed out how different the actual LA-2a compressors sound from each other depending on age and calibration. As a life long LA-2a fan, I’ve heard a lot of variation between opto-compressors - currently love my LA-610 even though many argue it’s not the same as an original LA-2a, but it’s seriously so close I stopped caring years ago.
Same with the RE2A - it does what I expect an opto compressor to do even when pushed hard: stay relatively transparent considering how much work it’s doing, smooth things out nicely, and is stupid simple to setup!
:)


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