Ableton Live 10

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jlgrimes
Posts: 661
Joined: 06 Jun 2017

03 Nov 2017

Tumble wrote:
02 Nov 2017
EdGrip wrote:
02 Nov 2017
Tbf, they've had five years to make this update. For comparison, since Live 9 was released, Propellerheads released Reason 7, 8, 9 and 10. I'm just sayin' - don't get me wrong, I'm as excited about any new DAW version announcement as the next dork.
It does put things in perspective regarding Reason, for sure. Don't get me wrong, this is a good update; They've adressed some important things, but they've also chosen to add filler (a Space Echo and a drumgoodizer? zZzzz....) where there could have been interesting, more forward-thinking stuff instead.
I will say though with Live 9 they went long without an upgrade but at the same time I was happy they took their time on this one as 9 alone seemed to be a pretty good program and they gave us two (at least) pretty big minor releases (improving Plug-in Delay Compensation, Giving us some killer filters on the samplers/effects/synths). Not everyone can be pleased but the update seems big to me.

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Marco Raaphorst
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03 Nov 2017

miscend wrote:
02 Nov 2017
Tumble wrote:
02 Nov 2017



Oscillator effects - 3 morph modes with 2 modulators in each (FM: amount and tuning, Modern: Warp and fold, Classic: PW and sync)
A lot of wavetables - can't load your own, though.
Dual filters with serial, parallel and split routing
6 unison modes - Classic, Shimmer, Noise, Phase Sync, Position Spread and Random Note
8 voices (...)
2 envelopes and 2 LFOs

Good, but hardly revolutionary. Europa is arguably more interesting due to the MSEGs, modulators, spectral filter and pre-routed mod knobs (such a simple, yet powerful thing).
Seen. It seems a theme with both Bitwig and Ableton, the stock synths are serviceable but unremarkable. You don’t buy Ableton for the synths.
I love the included synths, Operator, Sampler and Drum Rack especially.

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jfrichards
Posts: 1306
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: Sunnyvale, CA

03 Nov 2017

Ahornberg wrote:
02 Nov 2017
...Live ... looks like Lego.
That's it!! I thought Ableton shied away from Skeuomorphism because they couldn't spell it, but you are right. The childish design is because of their love of Lego. I love Lego but not for graphical design. By comparison, Reason is a DaVinci masterpiece, like comparing Mona Lisa to a Peanuts cartoon.

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Marco Raaphorst
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03 Nov 2017

jfrichards wrote:
03 Nov 2017
Ahornberg wrote:
02 Nov 2017
...Live ... looks like Lego.
That's it!! I thought Ableton shied away from Skeuomorphism because they couldn't spell it, but you are right. The childish design is because of their love of Lego. I love Lego but not for graphical design. By comparison, Reason is a DaVinci masterpiece, like comparing Mona Lisa to a Peanuts cartoon.
Live is like Mondrian 😎

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jfrichards
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03 Nov 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
03 Nov 2017
Live is like Mondrian 😎
So true Marco, and he lost his red and black paint and went with pastel colors instead.

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Gorgon
Posts: 1233
Joined: 11 Mar 2016

03 Nov 2017

jfrichards wrote:
03 Nov 2017
By comparison, Reason is a DaVinci masterpiece,
Suuuure...
"This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit."

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miscend
Posts: 1955
Joined: 09 Feb 2015

03 Nov 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
03 Nov 2017
miscend wrote:
02 Nov 2017
Seen. It seems a theme with both Bitwig and Ableton, the stock synths are serviceable but unremarkable. You don’t buy Ableton for the synths.
I love the included synths, Operator, Sampler and Drum Rack especially.
The new pedal board sounds nice. Are you on the beta?

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Marco Raaphorst
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03 Nov 2017

miscend wrote:
03 Nov 2017
Marco Raaphorst wrote:
03 Nov 2017


I love the included synths, Operator, Sampler and Drum Rack especially.
The new pedal board sounds nice. Are you on the beta?
Interesting! No I am not on the beta.

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hurricane
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03 Nov 2017

Yikes. I'm not impressed with Live 10.

I am REALLY hoping Logic 11 comes through big - with more than just MORE synths and MORE content cuz that seems to be the trend lately.
Soundcloud | Youtube
Logic Pro | Bitwig

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miscend
Posts: 1955
Joined: 09 Feb 2015

04 Nov 2017

hurricane wrote:
03 Nov 2017
Yikes. I'm not impressed with Live 10.

I am REALLY hoping Logic 11 comes through big - with more than just MORE synths and MORE content cuz that seems to be the trend lately.
Apple always add new content. They just added brand tons of new new content with the update to the GarageBand iOS app. I’m guessing Logic 11 will probably come with a new version of Alchemy since they bought the whole dev team.

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svenh
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04 Nov 2017

This looks like a very nice upgrade, I will probably grab it.

Reason 10, Live 10, Studio One 3.5, what not...

We are happy to be spoiled with high quality creative music making tools these days.. :D

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Marco Raaphorst
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04 Nov 2017

must say I also love the small cosmetic changes. Live is a piece of art. that 2D look and feel has always impressed me. very authentic. truly unique.

kitekrazy
Posts: 1036
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

07 Dec 2017

If you have a Suite license this is overpriced. You pay over $200 just to use your previous libraries. Are they going to upgrade the orchestra library? Operator? Sampler? It's really no different than Props requiring you to upgrade just to use your REs. For that price I could get the Cubase crossgrade.

antic604

21 Dec 2017

I'm torn regarding v10 (I'm beta testing it)...

On one hand, there's a lot to love - it (finally!!!) supports high-DPI screens and touchpad scroll/zoom gestures, it does incremental saves with undo, it has grouping of groups, it has multi-clip editing for MIDI, it has Capture (retrospective MIDI recording), M4L is better integrated (no, it's still not built-in). The new devices, especially Wavetable & Echo are really nice.

On the other, following the example of Logic they've separated editing of MIDI/audio clips from editing of automation - in L9 you could have a mixed view with regards to details that you see, so eg. one track would show MIDI notes, the other would show audio and another one automation, so that you could work on all three in reference to each other. In L10 you can't edit automation if you're editing MIDI or audio and vice versa. They've traded flexibility for either / or kind of solution. Also, many plugins using OpenGL or internal scaling don't work properly, e.g. stuff from NI, Unfiltered Audio, Arturia, etc. Bitwig still beats it in many areas like much more flexible GUI, dedicated profile for touch screens, plugin bit-bridging and sandboxing, VST3 & MPE support, hybrid tracks, super fun & inviting modulation system.

They really want me to focus on Bitwig 2 + Reason 10 only :D

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Marco Raaphorst
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21 Dec 2017

antic604 wrote:
21 Dec 2017
I'm torn regarding v10 (I'm beta testing it)...

On one hand, there's a lot to love - it (finally!!!) supports high-DPI screens and touchpad scroll/zoom gestures, it does incremental saves with undo, it has grouping of groups, it has multi-clip editing for MIDI, it has Capture (retrospective MIDI recording), M4L is better integrated (no, it's still not built-in). The new devices, especially Wavetable & Echo are really nice.

On the other, following the example of Logic they've separated editing of MIDI/audio clips from editing of automation - in L9 you could have a mixed view with regards to details that you see, so eg. one track would show MIDI notes, the other would show audio and another one automation, so that you could work on all three in reference to each other. In L10 you can't edit automation if you're editing MIDI or audio and vice versa. They've traded flexibility for either / or kind of solution. Also, many plugins using OpenGL or internal scaling don't work properly, e.g. stuff from NI, Unfiltered Audio, Arturia, etc. Bitwig still beats it in many areas like much more flexible GUI, dedicated profile for touch screens, plugin bit-bridging and sandboxing, VST3 & MPE support, hybrid tracks, super fun & inviting modulation system.

They really want me to focus on Bitwig 2 + Reason 10 only :D
do you own Logic?

the upgrade price for Live is 199 (inc discount for the moment) which is the same as Logic.

antic604

21 Dec 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
21 Dec 2017
antic604 wrote:
21 Dec 2017
I'm torn regarding v10 (I'm beta testing it)...

On one hand, there's a lot to love - it (finally!!!) supports high-DPI screens and touchpad scroll/zoom gestures, it does incremental saves with undo, it has grouping of groups, it has multi-clip editing for MIDI, it has Capture (retrospective MIDI recording), M4L is better integrated (no, it's still not built-in). The new devices, especially Wavetable & Echo are really nice.

On the other, following the example of Logic they've separated editing of MIDI/audio clips from editing of automation - in L9 you could have a mixed view with regards to details that you see, so eg. one track would show MIDI notes, the other would show audio and another one automation, so that you could work on all three in reference to each other. In L10 you can't edit automation if you're editing MIDI or audio and vice versa. They've traded flexibility for either / or kind of solution. Also, many plugins using OpenGL or internal scaling don't work properly, e.g. stuff from NI, Unfiltered Audio, Arturia, etc. Bitwig still beats it in many areas like much more flexible GUI, dedicated profile for touch screens, plugin bit-bridging and sandboxing, VST3 & MPE support, hybrid tracks, super fun & inviting modulation system.

They really want me to focus on Bitwig 2 + Reason 10 only :D
do you own Logic?

the upgrade price for Live is 199 (inc discount for the moment) which is the same as Logic.
No, but I also don't own Mac :)

And really, I've more DAWs than I have time to play with them. I started with Live, because it seemed closest to how I imagined my workflow and I actually liked it a lot, but many small things started piling up, making work with it frustrating... Bitwig really solved most of them, but compared to Live it's much less feature-rich in terms of quality instruments, effects, samples & loops of which there's ton in Live 9 Suite that I own.

For me Reason seems like a sweet spot, with awesome modulation possibilities (although not as intuitive and streamlined as Bitwig) and great arsenal of native instrument & devices.

EdGrip
Posts: 2343
Joined: 03 Jun 2016

21 Dec 2017

They need to just settle their differences and make Ablewig.

Live has always seemed an expensive proposition to me. Especially if you want devices like Sampler and Wavetable and Echo (which of course you do.)

antic604

21 Dec 2017

EdGrip wrote:
21 Dec 2017
Live has always seemed an expensive proposition to me. Especially if you want devices like Sampler and Wavetable and Echo (which of course you do.)
Is it? For the asking price of Suite (EUR480 right now) you really get a lot:
- really usable FM, subtractive, wavetable and physical modelling synths + drum synths,
- tons of high quality samples & loops (in L10 it's 70GB),
- full modular environment, with huge userbase of free & paid devices,
- arguably the best integration with hardware controller of any DAW (Push 2),
- very stable, popular and capable DAW with plethora of tutorials, courses, collaboration opportunities.

Just reading the above I want to upgrade to v10 :D

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Marco Raaphorst
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21 Dec 2017

compared to Logic everything is expensive. Logic comes with so many features, devices and sounds, and it possibly is the smoothes DAW for OSX users. It is tempting. But I don't want to switch to another DAW. I have done this so many times.

So I probalbly won't upgrade Live 9.7.5

EdGrip
Posts: 2343
Joined: 03 Jun 2016

08 Feb 2018

Guys guys guys. Watch this video, it is fantastic. (and an accurate representation of my interactions with Reason)


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Oquasec
Posts: 2849
Joined: 05 Mar 2017

08 Feb 2018

Ableton 10 looks nice, but that seriously looks like what I'd do in Reason 5 lmao : /
Producer/Programmer.
Reason, FLS and Cubase NFR user.

The_Grass
Posts: 28
Joined: 04 Sep 2016

08 Feb 2018

parma wrote:
02 Nov 2017
To be fair, the new devices and sound content are only in Suite. M4L might now be "integrated" but it's still Suite-only.
Standard Live only gets the UI/workflow stuff.
Suite retails for $749, Reason for $399.
Buten you will pay a 1000 euro for a New guitar? Strange

JRJulius
Posts: 26
Joined: 17 Jan 2018

08 Feb 2018

It’s a really solid update, I have to admit. I moved to Ableton Live from Reaper, then played around with Reason 6.5 here and there but mostly stuck with Live 9. I switched to Logic full-time in early 2016 and was initially enamoured, but my output dried up almost completely by the fall. Logic is a great program if you know exactly what you want but I feel like it punishes blind experimentation (I won’t argue with you if you disagree).

I don’t think an apples-to-apples comparison of Wavetable and Europa is fair, nor would I give one a leg up over the other, but good god do I enjoy having access to both of these synths. Reason still has a better quantization toolkit and Ableton still has a faster “from-scratch” workflow. Live’s ability to stack MIDI clips makes writing bass lines, changing melodies, and inverting chords super quick whereas Reason’s Players can spark ideas I never would have had otherwise.

It’s going to be a good winter.

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dvdrtldg
Posts: 2386
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

08 Feb 2018

Wow, so much batch over Live 10 - not on this forum, I mean, but everywhere else. Price too high. Features too skimpy. "Loyal users" wetting the bed because their particular niche requirements haven't been met *again*. Nice to know it's not just Reason users who carry on like this

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Marco Raaphorst
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08 Feb 2018

dvdrtldg wrote:
08 Feb 2018
Wow, so much batch over Live 10 - not on this forum, I mean, but everywhere else. Price too high. Features too skimpy. "Loyal users" wetting the bed because their particular niche requirements haven't been met *again*. Nice to know it's not just Reason users who carry on like this
Yes haven't upgraded. Price is way too high for upgrade. 249 euro. Can get full package of Logic Pro for 199.

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