I will say though with Live 9 they went long without an upgrade but at the same time I was happy they took their time on this one as 9 alone seemed to be a pretty good program and they gave us two (at least) pretty big minor releases (improving Plug-in Delay Compensation, Giving us some killer filters on the samplers/effects/synths). Not everyone can be pleased but the update seems big to me.Tumble wrote: ↑02 Nov 2017It does put things in perspective regarding Reason, for sure. Don't get me wrong, this is a good update; They've adressed some important things, but they've also chosen to add filler (a Space Echo and a drumgoodizer? zZzzz....) where there could have been interesting, more forward-thinking stuff instead.
Ableton Live 10
- Marco Raaphorst
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I love the included synths, Operator, Sampler and Drum Rack especially.miscend wrote: ↑02 Nov 2017Seen. It seems a theme with both Bitwig and Ableton, the stock synths are serviceable but unremarkable. You don’t buy Ableton for the synths.Tumble wrote: ↑02 Nov 2017
Oscillator effects - 3 morph modes with 2 modulators in each (FM: amount and tuning, Modern: Warp and fold, Classic: PW and sync)
A lot of wavetables - can't load your own, though.
Dual filters with serial, parallel and split routing
6 unison modes - Classic, Shimmer, Noise, Phase Sync, Position Spread and Random Note
8 voices (...)
2 envelopes and 2 LFOs
Good, but hardly revolutionary. Europa is arguably more interesting due to the MSEGs, modulators, spectral filter and pre-routed mod knobs (such a simple, yet powerful thing).
- jfrichards
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That's it!! I thought Ableton shied away from Skeuomorphism because they couldn't spell it, but you are right. The childish design is because of their love of Lego. I love Lego but not for graphical design. By comparison, Reason is a DaVinci masterpiece, like comparing Mona Lisa to a Peanuts cartoon.
- Marco Raaphorst
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Live is like Mondrianjfrichards wrote: ↑03 Nov 2017That's it!! I thought Ableton shied away from Skeuomorphism because they couldn't spell it, but you are right. The childish design is because of their love of Lego. I love Lego but not for graphical design. By comparison, Reason is a DaVinci masterpiece, like comparing Mona Lisa to a Peanuts cartoon.
- jfrichards
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So true Marco, and he lost his red and black paint and went with pastel colors instead.
Suuuure...
"This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit."
The new pedal board sounds nice. Are you on the beta?Marco Raaphorst wrote: ↑03 Nov 2017I love the included synths, Operator, Sampler and Drum Rack especially.
- Marco Raaphorst
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Interesting! No I am not on the beta.miscend wrote: ↑03 Nov 2017The new pedal board sounds nice. Are you on the beta?Marco Raaphorst wrote: ↑03 Nov 2017
I love the included synths, Operator, Sampler and Drum Rack especially.
Yikes. I'm not impressed with Live 10.
I am REALLY hoping Logic 11 comes through big - with more than just MORE synths and MORE content cuz that seems to be the trend lately.
I am REALLY hoping Logic 11 comes through big - with more than just MORE synths and MORE content cuz that seems to be the trend lately.
Apple always add new content. They just added brand tons of new new content with the update to the GarageBand iOS app. I’m guessing Logic 11 will probably come with a new version of Alchemy since they bought the whole dev team.
This looks like a very nice upgrade, I will probably grab it.
Reason 10, Live 10, Studio One 3.5, what not...
We are happy to be spoiled with high quality creative music making tools these days..
Reason 10, Live 10, Studio One 3.5, what not...
We are happy to be spoiled with high quality creative music making tools these days..
- Marco Raaphorst
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must say I also love the small cosmetic changes. Live is a piece of art. that 2D look and feel has always impressed me. very authentic. truly unique.
If you have a Suite license this is overpriced. You pay over $200 just to use your previous libraries. Are they going to upgrade the orchestra library? Operator? Sampler? It's really no different than Props requiring you to upgrade just to use your REs. For that price I could get the Cubase crossgrade.
I'm torn regarding v10 (I'm beta testing it)...
On one hand, there's a lot to love - it (finally!!!) supports high-DPI screens and touchpad scroll/zoom gestures, it does incremental saves with undo, it has grouping of groups, it has multi-clip editing for MIDI, it has Capture (retrospective MIDI recording), M4L is better integrated (no, it's still not built-in). The new devices, especially Wavetable & Echo are really nice.
On the other, following the example of Logic they've separated editing of MIDI/audio clips from editing of automation - in L9 you could have a mixed view with regards to details that you see, so eg. one track would show MIDI notes, the other would show audio and another one automation, so that you could work on all three in reference to each other. In L10 you can't edit automation if you're editing MIDI or audio and vice versa. They've traded flexibility for either / or kind of solution. Also, many plugins using OpenGL or internal scaling don't work properly, e.g. stuff from NI, Unfiltered Audio, Arturia, etc. Bitwig still beats it in many areas like much more flexible GUI, dedicated profile for touch screens, plugin bit-bridging and sandboxing, VST3 & MPE support, hybrid tracks, super fun & inviting modulation system.
They really want me to focus on Bitwig 2 + Reason 10 only
On one hand, there's a lot to love - it (finally!!!) supports high-DPI screens and touchpad scroll/zoom gestures, it does incremental saves with undo, it has grouping of groups, it has multi-clip editing for MIDI, it has Capture (retrospective MIDI recording), M4L is better integrated (no, it's still not built-in). The new devices, especially Wavetable & Echo are really nice.
On the other, following the example of Logic they've separated editing of MIDI/audio clips from editing of automation - in L9 you could have a mixed view with regards to details that you see, so eg. one track would show MIDI notes, the other would show audio and another one automation, so that you could work on all three in reference to each other. In L10 you can't edit automation if you're editing MIDI or audio and vice versa. They've traded flexibility for either / or kind of solution. Also, many plugins using OpenGL or internal scaling don't work properly, e.g. stuff from NI, Unfiltered Audio, Arturia, etc. Bitwig still beats it in many areas like much more flexible GUI, dedicated profile for touch screens, plugin bit-bridging and sandboxing, VST3 & MPE support, hybrid tracks, super fun & inviting modulation system.
They really want me to focus on Bitwig 2 + Reason 10 only
- Marco Raaphorst
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do you own Logic?antic604 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2017I'm torn regarding v10 (I'm beta testing it)...
On one hand, there's a lot to love - it (finally!!!) supports high-DPI screens and touchpad scroll/zoom gestures, it does incremental saves with undo, it has grouping of groups, it has multi-clip editing for MIDI, it has Capture (retrospective MIDI recording), M4L is better integrated (no, it's still not built-in). The new devices, especially Wavetable & Echo are really nice.
On the other, following the example of Logic they've separated editing of MIDI/audio clips from editing of automation - in L9 you could have a mixed view with regards to details that you see, so eg. one track would show MIDI notes, the other would show audio and another one automation, so that you could work on all three in reference to each other. In L10 you can't edit automation if you're editing MIDI or audio and vice versa. They've traded flexibility for either / or kind of solution. Also, many plugins using OpenGL or internal scaling don't work properly, e.g. stuff from NI, Unfiltered Audio, Arturia, etc. Bitwig still beats it in many areas like much more flexible GUI, dedicated profile for touch screens, plugin bit-bridging and sandboxing, VST3 & MPE support, hybrid tracks, super fun & inviting modulation system.
They really want me to focus on Bitwig 2 + Reason 10 only
the upgrade price for Live is 199 (inc discount for the moment) which is the same as Logic.
No, but I also don't own MacMarco Raaphorst wrote: ↑21 Dec 2017do you own Logic?antic604 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2017I'm torn regarding v10 (I'm beta testing it)...
On one hand, there's a lot to love - it (finally!!!) supports high-DPI screens and touchpad scroll/zoom gestures, it does incremental saves with undo, it has grouping of groups, it has multi-clip editing for MIDI, it has Capture (retrospective MIDI recording), M4L is better integrated (no, it's still not built-in). The new devices, especially Wavetable & Echo are really nice.
On the other, following the example of Logic they've separated editing of MIDI/audio clips from editing of automation - in L9 you could have a mixed view with regards to details that you see, so eg. one track would show MIDI notes, the other would show audio and another one automation, so that you could work on all three in reference to each other. In L10 you can't edit automation if you're editing MIDI or audio and vice versa. They've traded flexibility for either / or kind of solution. Also, many plugins using OpenGL or internal scaling don't work properly, e.g. stuff from NI, Unfiltered Audio, Arturia, etc. Bitwig still beats it in many areas like much more flexible GUI, dedicated profile for touch screens, plugin bit-bridging and sandboxing, VST3 & MPE support, hybrid tracks, super fun & inviting modulation system.
They really want me to focus on Bitwig 2 + Reason 10 only
the upgrade price for Live is 199 (inc discount for the moment) which is the same as Logic.
And really, I've more DAWs than I have time to play with them. I started with Live, because it seemed closest to how I imagined my workflow and I actually liked it a lot, but many small things started piling up, making work with it frustrating... Bitwig really solved most of them, but compared to Live it's much less feature-rich in terms of quality instruments, effects, samples & loops of which there's ton in Live 9 Suite that I own.
For me Reason seems like a sweet spot, with awesome modulation possibilities (although not as intuitive and streamlined as Bitwig) and great arsenal of native instrument & devices.
Is it? For the asking price of Suite (EUR480 right now) you really get a lot:
- really usable FM, subtractive, wavetable and physical modelling synths + drum synths,
- tons of high quality samples & loops (in L10 it's 70GB),
- full modular environment, with huge userbase of free & paid devices,
- arguably the best integration with hardware controller of any DAW (Push 2),
- very stable, popular and capable DAW with plethora of tutorials, courses, collaboration opportunities.
Just reading the above I want to upgrade to v10
- Marco Raaphorst
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compared to Logic everything is expensive. Logic comes with so many features, devices and sounds, and it possibly is the smoothes DAW for OSX users. It is tempting. But I don't want to switch to another DAW. I have done this so many times.
So I probalbly won't upgrade Live 9.7.5
So I probalbly won't upgrade Live 9.7.5
It’s a really solid update, I have to admit. I moved to Ableton Live from Reaper, then played around with Reason 6.5 here and there but mostly stuck with Live 9. I switched to Logic full-time in early 2016 and was initially enamoured, but my output dried up almost completely by the fall. Logic is a great program if you know exactly what you want but I feel like it punishes blind experimentation (I won’t argue with you if you disagree).
I don’t think an apples-to-apples comparison of Wavetable and Europa is fair, nor would I give one a leg up over the other, but good god do I enjoy having access to both of these synths. Reason still has a better quantization toolkit and Ableton still has a faster “from-scratch” workflow. Live’s ability to stack MIDI clips makes writing bass lines, changing melodies, and inverting chords super quick whereas Reason’s Players can spark ideas I never would have had otherwise.
It’s going to be a good winter.
I don’t think an apples-to-apples comparison of Wavetable and Europa is fair, nor would I give one a leg up over the other, but good god do I enjoy having access to both of these synths. Reason still has a better quantization toolkit and Ableton still has a faster “from-scratch” workflow. Live’s ability to stack MIDI clips makes writing bass lines, changing melodies, and inverting chords super quick whereas Reason’s Players can spark ideas I never would have had otherwise.
It’s going to be a good winter.
Wow, so much batch over Live 10 - not on this forum, I mean, but everywhere else. Price too high. Features too skimpy. "Loyal users" wetting the bed because their particular niche requirements haven't been met *again*. Nice to know it's not just Reason users who carry on like this
- Marco Raaphorst
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Yes haven't upgraded. Price is way too high for upgrade. 249 euro. Can get full package of Logic Pro for 199.dvdrtldg wrote: ↑08 Feb 2018Wow, so much batch over Live 10 - not on this forum, I mean, but everywhere else. Price too high. Features too skimpy. "Loyal users" wetting the bed because their particular niche requirements haven't been met *again*. Nice to know it's not just Reason users who carry on like this
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