If you have Logic X, you should NOT Upgrade to Reason 10

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Loque
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13 Oct 2017

Karim wrote:
13 Oct 2017
Hmm...and why should i buy Alchemy or Logic now?
You can't my dear friend. Is no more available as Vst/AU. it became a stock synth bundled in Logic.
IT' s a TRAP! :lol: :lol:
Dooohhh!
Reason12, Win10

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Carly(Poohbear)
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13 Oct 2017

Loque wrote:
13 Oct 2017
mrmiyagi wrote:
13 Oct 2017
Sometimes we fall into the trap of thinking that if we just had one more synth that our music would be better or that we would suddenly start making better music.
Hmm...and why should i buy Alchemy or Logic now?
Touche :lol: LOL :lol:

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bxbrkrz
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13 Oct 2017

I will NOT upgrade to R10 on Mac. Thank you for telling the truth.
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TritoneAddiction
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13 Oct 2017

mrmiyagi wrote:
12 Oct 2017
Grain and Europa sound similar to Propellerheads other synths. Yes it is different synthesis methods, but the actual sound that you hear coming out of the speakers is not worth $129 and definitely not better than what you already have. If you merely want new synths inside Reason
I'm not sure if you are trolling with this comment. I hope so.

I'm sure Logic and Alchemy are great. Haven't tried them so I can't say. I'll take your word for it. Maybe other synths offer more. It's all subjective, but fine.

But to say that you can basically get the same sounds as Grain and Europa with Reasons old stock synths is pretty mind-boggling.

I haven't been a beta tester for R10 but just listening to Propellerheads live stream videos it's pretty obvious these synths offer something different sound wise. Just Europas filter section alone allows for new sounds, add to that the actual wavetables in the synth.
Grain is so obviously different compared to what Reason already has that I have no idea how you came to this conclusion.

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synaptyx
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13 Oct 2017

This thread [emoji849]


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Since Reason 1

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Gorgon
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13 Oct 2017

TritoneAddiction wrote:
13 Oct 2017
I'm not sure if you are trolling with this comment. I hope so.
Of course he is. He's been trolling all along.
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mrmiyagi
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13 Oct 2017

Gorgon, do you use Logic? If not then goodbye. Interesting how if you say anything negative about Reason here it is called trolling!!! I had to leave the latest Propellerhead showcase on facebook just now as they started with loops because I realized that this R10 is definitely for users new to music and particularly new to Reason and DAWS. Which is ok of course, but boring for the rest of us. Lol is that trolling by me cuz I said that? I don't see what people gain from having this protective nature with this software. It's ok to criticize it!

Tritone - listen to it for yourself in beta but do not go in with a heavy Propellerhead bias. Do not fall into the trap of seeing lots of function in a synth and being impressed with just that. Play Europa, then IMMEDIATELY AB it with something like Sylenth or Serum or Massive. Then tell me what you think.

Also, in music we AB our tracks against best tracks out there. It is clear to me that either Propellerhead do not do that with their synths, OR they CPU optimize too much resulting in lackluster sound.

My opinion as a Reason user. Is this trolling again?

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teddymcw
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13 Oct 2017

Mr M, I feel like you may want to check out a program similar to Reason but may fit your needs better, it's called Excuse.


(sorry mods, it's a joke, a light loving nudge)

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TritoneAddiction
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13 Oct 2017

mrmiyagi wrote:
13 Oct 2017
Tritone - listen to it for yourself in beta but do not go in with a heavy Propellerhead bias. Do not fall into the trap of seeing lots of function in a synth and being impressed with just that. Play Europa, then IMMEDIATELY AB it with something like Sylenth or Serum or Massive. Then tell me what you think.

Also, in music we AB our tracks against best tracks out there. It is clear to me that either Propellerhead do not do that with their synths, OR they CPU optimize too much resulting in lackluster sound.

My opinion as a Reason user. Is this trolling again?
Well I did say that Alchemy or other synths might offer more. That wasn't my issue with your comment. You might be totally right on that one. I haven't tried them all. What's "better" is highly subjective. It isn't even always about how much you can do with an instrument. Sometimes it's the limitations and workflow that makes a synth a favorite, like The Legend from Synapse Audio for me, which also happens to sound amazing btw. I've watched many videos on Omnisphere and other big synths. While they undeniably are amazing instruments they would also be overwhelming to work with for me. It's just too much.

I don't like everything just becasue it's from Propellerhead. Their new Layers synth for example didn't didn't impress me at all and I honestly expected more from PH. Thought it sounded dull and pretty lifeless. Other people seemed to like it though. Not a big fan of working with Thor either, too cluttered.

My comment was about Reasons old stock synths against Grain and Europa. As I said just listening (not looking) to the live streams it was pretty clear that these offer new sounds compared to the old synths. That was my point.
I mean the closest thing to Grain in Reason is Malström and there's not a chance that Malström will be able to produce the same sounds as Grain. You can load samples in Grain and manipulate them in other ways, which basically makes the sound possibilities endless. In Malström you can't load samples. I don't even see how one could argue with that. That's why I thought you might be trolling.

But maybe trying to pursuade Reason users at a Reason forum to use another program isn't the easiest thing. I suspect it would the same at a Reaper forum or Ableton forum too.

Anyway it dosen't matter. I'm not really interested in changing your or anyones mind. Just use what works for you, if that's Logic and Alchemy then fine.

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sublunar
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13 Oct 2017

Dear Logic X,

Blow me.

Sincerely,
sublunar

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mrmiyagi
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13 Oct 2017

Well Tritone, I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The synthesis methods in the new synths are different, so you will have new sounds. What I meant is the actual sound quality that comes out of the speakers. Maybe I do not know what to call it...but let's take Omnisphere for example. Listen to the quality of its sounds and you can hear and feel the rich present heavy bass, and the shiny airy glossy highs, and the present , punchy mids. The sound panorama is wide, large, open, airy. Imagine stacking 3 Omnispheres - that would overload the frequency range! Whatever that quality of sound is, that is what I am talking about. And when i played with Europa, I heard the typical Propellerhead quality, which is thin, not bass heavy, highs are dull, mids are not thick, the overall sonic quality is more like a low bitrate MP3 compared to something like Omnisphere or Alchemy or Sylenth or Serum. If the Props' synths were frequency rich, you wouldn't need to stack 4 of them to create ONE full sounding patch! Think about a more traditional DAW - have you ever layered 3 Avengers??? Have you stacked 4 Sylenths to make one patch EVER??? You don't need to - not with those synths. Avenger is older than Europa, and already Europa is sonically outdated! What excuses do you have for that, Enochlight lol?

I would like propellerhead to stop with the CPU optimizing or their sonic shortcuts and give us just ONE true sonically unhindered synthesizer.

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Gorgon
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13 Oct 2017

mrmiyagi wrote:
13 Oct 2017
Gorgon, do you use Logic?
I'm still waiting on those amazing pianosounds you told us about.
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TritoneAddiction
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13 Oct 2017

mrmiyagi wrote:
13 Oct 2017
Well Tritone, I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The synthesis methods in the new synths are different, so you will have new sounds. What I meant is the actual sound quality that comes out of the speakers. Maybe I do not know what to call it...but let's take Omnisphere for example. Listen to the quality of its sounds and you can hear and feel the rich present heavy bass, and the shiny airy glossy highs, and the present , punchy mids. The sound panorama is wide, large, open, airy. Imagine stacking 3 Omnispheres - that would overload the frequency range! Whatever that quality of sound is, that is what I am talking about. And when i played with Europa, I heard the typical Propellerhead quality, which is thin, not bass heavy, highs are dull, mids are not thick, the overall sonic quality is more like a low bitrate MP3 compared to something like Omnisphere or Alchemy or Sylenth or Serum. If the Props' synths were frequency rich, you wouldn't need to stack 4 of them to create ONE full sounding patch! Think about a more traditional DAW - have you ever layered 3 Avengers??? Have you stacked 4 Sylenths to make one patch EVER??? You don't need to - not with those synths. Avenger is older than Europa, and already Europa is sonically outdated! What excuses do you have for that, Enochlight lol?

I would like propellerhead to stop with the CPU optimizing or their sonic shortcuts and give us just ONE true sonically unhindered synthesizer.
I'm listening to a bunch of Omnisphere patches right now on youtube. Honestly I don't hear any special frequencies I haven't heard before. There are some big sounds for sure, most of them drenched in effects though. The problem is I rarely use those big patches in my music because they take up so much space in a full mix that I can only use one or two of them at the same time. That's not how I build my music/mixes. I prefer to use more and simpler patches and add my own effects when I want them.

Again, it doesn't matter. Use whatever works for you.

The longer I read this thread the more I wonder why you're still talking about Reason. Seems like every comment from you is about how everything else is better. You have already made up your mind on what is best. That's fine. But why are you still trying to get into Reason? Or are you? I don't even know anymore. It obviously doesn't work for you the way you would like. Or are you trying to convert every Reason user here to use something else? I don't get it.

Enough of this thread for me. I have nothing more to add here really. Goodbye and good luck with your music making whatever tools you choose.

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Gorgon
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13 Oct 2017

TritoneAddiction wrote:
13 Oct 2017
I'm listening to a bunch of Omnisphere patches right now on youtube. Honestly I don't hear any special frequencies I haven't heard before.
You're not listening right. You need to focus on the 120Khz sounds that the normal ear can't hear. You need your inner focus buddha ear for that.

Mister Miyagi is the true specialist. Wax on, wax off. Ask him.
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mrmiyagi
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13 Oct 2017

I am at airport that's why i am active on forms today lol.

Tritone - not "everything else" lol, just Logic's factory sounds and synths. : )

I use Reason on airplanes and on the bus. At home and in the studio for serious work I use Logic. Like I mentioned before early in this thread - I don't want you to buy Logic!

I am brand new to Reason, barely 3 weeks now. Surely I cannot be the first person to criticize its sounds? Or maybe you guys think the same and just keep quiet? But then how will they improve their synths if we don't say anything? Even Mattias in today's show said Reason's loops and samples were old that's why they added new ones in R10. It's at least a start. But now they need to improve the synths. Europa and Grain are also a good start, but they seriously need to change how they develop these things. I know nothing about developing a synth, but it's almost like they use the same audio engine template to build all their synths, that's why they sonically sound similar in terms of depth, punch, thickness, air, gloss, and width. And I don't need to be a developer to know that they use cpu optimizations that definitely affect the quality. But then you could say that they are just good developers because it is low CPU, then is Viking 2 a poor developer because their synth is harder on CPU?

Also makes sense now why I work so hard in Reason to make a good sounding patch. I am trying to enhance the depth, punch, thickness, and air of these synths, but those things aren't there in the first place! Hence the struggle!! trying to enhance something that isn't there.

This has been an interesting experiment for me, working with Reason. Maybe one of you appreciates my honesty or maybe you agree with me a little or I am just annoying (hi Gorgon). But then you say "so what - it doesn't prevent me from making music" and I say well your Toyota Yaris gets you places. But guess what so does my Mercedes SLK - and it gets me there faster, louder, more stylishly, and it gets more girls.

Quality.

I want Propellerhead to focus more on quality.

Not just focus on the "more stuff" part.

You also don't need to respond to this thread if I annoy you. What, like ONE of you uses Logic lol? This is hardware and other software section, no? And my post is directed at Logic users! : )

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aeox
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13 Oct 2017

mrmiyagi wrote:
13 Oct 2017
Also makes sense now why I work so hard in Reason to make a good sounding patch. I am trying to enhance the depth, punch, thickness, and air of these synths, but those things aren't there in the first place! Hence the struggle!! trying to enhance something that isn't there.
There isn't a single preset from ANY synth on the market that is impressive to me. I seriously recommend learning some sound design/shaping techniques.

Ostermilk
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13 Oct 2017

mrmiyagi wrote:
13 Oct 2017
...and I say well your Toyota Yaris gets you places. But guess what so does my Mercedes SLK - and it gets me there faster, louder, more stylishly, and it gets more girls.
Wait, you have a Mercedes SLK and lots of girls?

Bless your heart.
Last edited by Ostermilk on 13 Oct 2017, edited 1 time in total.

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Carly(Poohbear)
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13 Oct 2017

big car small dick syndrome

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mrmiyagi
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13 Oct 2017

I nominate you for a banning, Carly Pooh.

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bxbrkrz
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13 Oct 2017

A Mercedes SLK is better than Reason 10. :geek:
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WongoTheSane
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13 Oct 2017

mrmiyagi, no one here cares whether you prefer DAW X or Y over Reason. This forum is devised for Reason users to exchange tips and opinions about Reason. Keep trolling and you'll be banned.

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