Sound breaks up/crackling - CPU stress or something else?

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TEGEL
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17 May 2017

Hi all

I am on R9 and have a problem that is becoming more and more severe, for every song I try to build in Reason on my MacBook Pro.

After adding perhaps no more 5-10 audio tracks (and not playing all at the same time) Reason starts to have problem playing the song, even if the Master unit is turned of. The audio breaks up and it feels like the Mac is having issues playing the track, the sound becomes "crackled" and eventually it may even let me know that "Your computer is too slow...".

I see this as quite strange; I have a fairly new MacBook Pro (3-4 years old) with 4Gb RAM etc. I have already set Reason to use "Unlimited" in CPU usage, and I have no other programs running in the background. A workaround has been to export some of the more heavy Combinators into wave-files and then run them as pure audio-files alongside the other Reason instruments. I seldom or never use any Rack extensions, 95% are built in Reason instruments (CMBs from various Refills).

As mentioned I feel this is an escalating problem - before I could have many audio-tracks in the Sequencer and experience no problem, then it started to get more and more and now I seem to get this issue just after adding a 5-10 audio tracks. I have googled several sites, but they all provide the same solutions; set CPU usage to unlimited (done), run with 44kHz etc (done), turn off the Mastering unit (done), so my question is can this be something else and have anyone else experienced the same issue and if so how did you resolve it?

I am not really in the position to buy a new Mac :-)

Cheers Ola

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Daniel36
Posts: 84
Joined: 02 Feb 2017

17 May 2017

Same problem! It means... well... that your computer is too slow... Did you recently upgrade Reason? Reason 9 is heavier on the pc than Reason 8. Stuff you could easily do in 8 will cause your pc to crackle in 9. I am not tech savvy, but I know that 4GB of RAM is not enough, R9 needs 8GB at least. At least, that's what I've been told when I asked on forums how to tackle this problem.

Also, not really in the position to buy a new laptop either...

The best way to solve this problem is to bounce as much of your midi to audio. That frees up a lot of CPU usage. Especially a synth like Expanse eats up your CPU, so bouncing those instances to audio will help.

Heater
Posts: 893
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

17 May 2017

Yep. I'm experiencing the same issue. DSP usage at 2 bars and I'm getting that crackling/noise pop sound. I'm on a i5 MacBook pro.

Tempted to install a W10 partition to test.

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tumar
Posts: 385
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17 May 2017

It has nothing to do with CPU meter. Try to adjust "Buffer size" in Audio Preferences, but you'll have to increase latency. Unfortunatelly, Reason is heavy on CPU on Mac, especially v. 9. I have MB Pro i7 2.2 and can't go below buffer 64; it's easy with Ableton Live, which is much better if it comes to CPU.

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Marco Raaphorst
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17 May 2017

Reason runs on the integrated graphics cards which is often causing these issues imo. Maybe my blogpost is useful http://melodiefabriek.com/blog/audio-gl ... eason-fix/

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tumar
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17 May 2017

It's not a case, my MB Pro has one graphic card. I would like to use Reason live, but I'm afraid it's impossible due to latency.

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Marco Raaphorst
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17 May 2017

tumar wrote:It's not a case, my MB Pro has one graphic card. I would like to use Reason live, but I'm afraid it's impossible due to latency.
Yes, the grafics card is causing glitches because it uses CPU cycles.

Heater
Posts: 893
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

18 May 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote:Reason runs on the integrated graphics cards which is often causing these issues imo. Maybe my blogpost is useful http://melodiefabriek.com/blog/audio-gl ... eason-fix/
My MacBook doesn't have a separate graphics card but using this idea of GPU usage causing the spikes I reduce to default for my display in the systems preferences -> displays and my pops and cracks have gone away.

Further more. If I minimise the app but keep it running I can run it at the lowest latency without any break ups which demonstrates that's the additional overhead of drawing stuff that is causing the problems.

Hiding the transport and showing only the mixer (F5) seems to consume the least GPU power.

Thank you.

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TEGEL
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18 May 2017

Thanks all for your responses
I am also glad, although shitty all the same, that I am not alone experiencing this issue. I started to feel I was doing something wrong in how I treated my Mac. But as said I feel it to be a bit disappointing that a 3 years old Mac should not be able to run Reason effectively, especially since Reason always in the past has been nice to the CPU

Q: How do you know if you have to graphics cards? Is that the normal state in Mac or is it more likely that I only have one?

Q: Has anyone here tried to re-install the Mac OS (while keeping user data) - has that solved anything?

Cheers Ola

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Marco Raaphorst
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18 May 2017

TEGEL wrote:Thanks all for your responses
I am also glad, although shitty all the same, that I am not alone experiencing this issue. I started to feel I was doing something wrong in how I treated my Mac. But as said I feel it to be a bit disappointing that a 3 years old Mac should not be able to run Reason effectively, especially since Reason always in the past has been nice to the CPU

Q: How do you know if you have to graphics cards? Is that the normal state in Mac or is it more likely that I only have one?

Q: Has anyone here tried to re-install the Mac OS (while keeping user data) - has that solved anything?

Cheers Ola
Check 'About this Mac' and then system report. There you will find out about your hardware.

Reason's performance is lacking compared to any other DAW systems (I am also using Ableton Live and that runs more efficient). Something that hopefully gets addressed in future updates.

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aeox
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22 May 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
TEGEL wrote:Thanks all for your responses
I am also glad, although shitty all the same, that I am not alone experiencing this issue. I started to feel I was doing something wrong in how I treated my Mac. But as said I feel it to be a bit disappointing that a 3 years old Mac should not be able to run Reason effectively, especially since Reason always in the past has been nice to the CPU

Q: How do you know if you have to graphics cards? Is that the normal state in Mac or is it more likely that I only have one?

Q: Has anyone here tried to re-install the Mac OS (while keeping user data) - has that solved anything?

Cheers Ola
Check 'About this Mac' and then system report. There you will find out about your hardware.

Reason's performance is lacking compared to any other DAW systems (I am also using Ableton Live and that runs more efficient). Something that hopefully gets addressed in future updates.

this is strange that you say that. i suppose it depends on your system.

Reason, for me, has actually had the best CPU usage out of any other DAW that i have tried. (Ableton, FL Studio, Bitwig, Studio One)

it's the first DAW that has ever used all 16 cores of my machine(won't use 32threads in hyper threading mode, though) and slammed it to 100% usage at times. (20% max, on other DAWS. where it will pin 1 core to 100% and leave the others untouched)

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Eagleizer
Posts: 102
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Location: Thailand

23 May 2017

tumar wrote:It has nothing to do with CPU meter. Try to adjust "Buffer size" in Audio Preferences, but you'll have to increase latency. Unfortunatelly, Reason is heavy on CPU on Mac, especially v. 9. I have MB Pro i7 2.2 and can't go below buffer 64; it's easy with Ableton Live, which is much better if it comes to CPU.
This is not true. Often a smaller buffer, which also gives shorter latency,
can give you some headroom. Different drivers acts differently and have
different sweetspot AND limit for how low and high they can go. The
sweetspot is also different for different sample rate. You should always
try smaller buffer size first. Use the small arrows to try different buffer
size in small increments.

ASIO4All is the worst driver, at least on my setup.

If you are at the limit of what you can tweak with the buffer, automating
Mute or Mute in the Sequencer may help. You can also Automate to Bypass
or turn OFF devices that are not in use in certain parts of the song. You might
have to Automate the volume to avoid clicks though.

Also make sure you don`t have programs running in the background, that
you don`t need of course :) Some anti virus softs can be CPU hogs at times...


Cheers :)

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tumar
Posts: 385
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

23 May 2017

Eagleizer wrote:
tumar wrote:It has nothing to do with CPU meter. Try to adjust "Buffer size" in Audio Preferences, but you'll have to increase latency. Unfortunatelly, Reason is heavy on CPU on Mac, especially v. 9. I have MB Pro i7 2.2 and can't go below buffer 64; it's easy with Ableton Live, which is much better if it comes to CPU.
This is not true. Often a smaller buffer, which also gives shorter latency,
can give you some headroom. Different drivers acts differently and have
different sweetspot AND limit for how low and high they can go. The
sweetspot is also different for different sample rate. You should always
try smaller buffer size first. Use the small arrows to try different buffer
size in small increments.

ASIO4All is the worst driver, at least on my setup.

If you are at the limit of what you can tweak with the buffer, automating
Mute or Mute in the Sequencer may help. You can also Automate to Bypass
or turn OFF devices that are not in use in certain parts of the song. You might
have to Automate the volume to avoid clicks though.

Also make sure you don`t have programs running in the background, that
you don`t need of course :) Some anti virus softs can be CPU hogs at times...


Cheers :)
So many letters, but, unfortunately, a lot of BSHIT. So: 1. no ASIO on Mac 2. no viruses on Mac and anti virus soft in background 3. nothing to do with muting sequencer track, because with low buffer size (64) it cracks even with just one track and one bar CPU usage, so nothing to mute.
Once again: you can have CPU usage as low as one or two bars, but Macbook cracks like hell. This is no case with Ableton Live or Studio One.
Another problem on Mac - I can't get buffer size lower than 64. Next is 128, no half-way. On Ableton Live you can adjust as much as you want, so it's possible to find CPU-latency sweet spot.

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Eagleizer
Posts: 102
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: Thailand

24 May 2017

No need to be rude. Mac is not mentioned in the title, so my info
might be useful for others reading this thread.

1. I mentioned what is worst in my system (AISO) to emphasize that drivers works differently.
AISO are sometimes used on Macs when connecting other devices like soundcards.

2. Macs gets malware, just as the recent one on iPhone, ignoring facts does not protect you.
You might want to read this:
http://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/mac-so ... e-3454926/
I any case, OP does not specify if he use Anti-virus or not...

3. I don`t see how muting and buffer size have anything to do with each other in the way you mention it,
except muting will help with load on the buffer.

When Reason is showing low DSP, like 2 bars as you say, and you get crackling,
there might be something wrong with the driver/way Mac is handling the workload,
but since I havn`t used Mac in 20 years, I`ll stay away from further suggestions,
except sending an email about the problem to both Apple and Props support. Seems
strange that there is a difference in what buffersize you can set in Reason and Ableton.

Hope you all get it sorted out. Problems like this sucks!


Cheers :)

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TEGEL
Posts: 8
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Location: Sweden
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25 May 2017

I contacted the Props team who agreed that I was not alone with this problem - at least that's something. Out of all the tips they provided (most of them has been echoed here in this thread) there was one that appears to have at least reduced my problems. I test played one of the songs I am working and the issue was gone or reduced a lot:

If your Mac has a retina screen, try running Reason in Low Resolution mode:
In Finder right-click the Reason app icon and select "Get Info". In the Get Info window, select "Run in low resolution". This will reduce the CPU strain on the graphics, which could improve the audio playback.

Cheers

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Last Alternative
Posts: 1343
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Location: the lost desert

25 May 2017

PH needs to fix the coding for Mac. At least they admit it's a known issue but they tried to minimize it, saying it's not a widespread issue. Well, I have the issue on a brand new iMac and I've seen many folks on these forums struggling with it too so... yeah.
Low resolution did help but we shouldn't have to do that.
https://lastalternative.bandcamp.com
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tumar
Posts: 385
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

25 May 2017

TEGEL wrote: If your Mac has a retina screen, try running Reason in Low Resolution mode:
In Finder right-click the Reason app icon and select "Get Info". In the Get Info window, select "Run in low resolution". This will reduce the CPU strain on the graphics, which could improve the audio playback.
Thanks, but didn't work. No difference.

Heater
Posts: 893
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

25 May 2017

TEGEL wrote:I contacted the Props team who agreed that I was not alone with this problem - at least that's something.
That at least is something. At least they recognise the problem.

I'd be quite happy if there was a option to turn off the GUI so I could listen back without the crackling.

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QVprod
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25 May 2017

TEGEL wrote:I have a fairly new MacBook Pro (3-4 years old) with 4Gb RAM etc. I have already set Reason to use "Unlimited" in CPU usage, and I have no other programs running in the background. A workaround has been to export some of the more heavy Combinators into wave-files and then run them as pure audio-files alongside the other Reason instruments. I seldom or never use any Rack extensions, 95% are built in Reason instruments (CMBs from various Refills).
Just to add, in the future, it's advised to never buy a computer with less than 8GB of ram. If you're using a lot of sample based sounds or just a few heavy ones it'll eat up your ram pretty quickly. If you can upgrade just the ram in your mac I'd suggest doing so. Though if you indeed have a retina mac you'll just have to live with it as ram is not upgradable.
Last edited by QVprod on 25 May 2017, edited 2 times in total.

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Oquasec
Posts: 2849
Joined: 05 Mar 2017

25 May 2017

4 important things to look at:
Ya harddrive.[no less than 5000rpm allowed]
Drivers [ASIO>ALL]
Cpu [Anything newer than 2008 pls]
Ram [8gb minimum, splurge on 64bit if ya can one day]
Producer/Programmer.
Reason, FLS and Cubase NFR user.

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tumar
Posts: 385
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

26 May 2017

Oquasec wrote:4 important things to look at:
Ya harddrive.[no less than 5000rpm allowed]
Drivers [ASIO>ALL]
Cpu [Anything newer than 2008 pls]
Ram [8gb minimum, splurge on 64bit if ya can one day]
I got Macbook Pro: 16 gb ram, 256 SSD (ultra fast pci-e), four core i7 2.2 ghz.
Only Reason makes problem. Studio One or even older Ableton Live 7
works like a charm.

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Oquasec
Posts: 2849
Joined: 05 Mar 2017

26 May 2017

tumar wrote:
Oquasec wrote:4 important things to look at:
Ya harddrive.[no less than 5000rpm allowed]
Drivers [ASIO>ALL]
Cpu [Anything newer than 2008 pls]
Ram [8gb minimum, splurge on 64bit if ya can one day]
I got Macbook Pro: 16 gb ram, 256 SSD (ultra fast pci-e), four core i7 2.2 ghz.
Only Reason makes problem. Studio One or even older Ableton Live 7
works like a charm.
Oh. Well I don't know jackshit about macs so I can't help ya there :lol:
Producer/Programmer.
Reason, FLS and Cubase NFR user.

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gak
Posts: 2840
Joined: 05 Feb 2015

30 May 2017

So difficult to diagnose.

First, until S1 came out with the recent CPU optimization, it was one of the worst.

Second, there is NO EXCUSE for reason to freaking out at two bars of CPU USE, but alas, this HAS become a problem.

I guarantee you that VGA is part of the problem. Why do I know? Because here, at 3 bars, GUI movement will crackle.

Then again, the props do not support hyperthreading and don't use cores properly (their words, not mine)

So what's a poor user supposed to do?

Heater
Posts: 893
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

30 May 2017

Yep. I'm still experiencing this on my MacBook. Only one VST loaded. Only one bar DSP. Move a knob = scratch sound.

It's really annoying.

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Last Alternative
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01 Jun 2017

Contact Propellerhead. The more of us that do, the more information they'll have to figure it out.
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