Studio Desks

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
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ThisIsNotTheMusic
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Location: Electric Badger Studios

26 Apr 2017

Anyone have any good tips on studio desk setup? I have a max 1.5m width to play with, but currently using an Aldi 'office' desk which won't fit a full size keyboard (no room to put on a keyboard stand either). Ideally something like the SWAMP brand, with Monitor stands and keyboard/mouse slide out - except much cheaper lol. Any ideas appreciated. Must be able to purchase in Australia. I could always build my own I guess ....

http://www.swamp.net.au/swamp-ws-03-studio-workstation

While on the subject, anyone have any reservations about buying a Nektar Panorama P4 or P6 second hand? I really would like one, but once again, bit expensive ...
https://soundcloud.com/hissotheusic

In space, no one can hear your song ....

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raymondh
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27 Apr 2017

A few thoughts;

Ergonomics
- Have a think about where you want to place your Qwerty keyboard vs piano keyboard vs control surface. That's the most important decision and then everything has to work around it. Whatever you do, you need to be square on to your working environment and then easy to slide or swivel your chair to your secondary workspace (if you have one).

- If you have the piano keyboard behind the Qwerty keyboard then you may want it higher than your Qwerty keys (like the photo on this page https://thekiwibloke.wixsite.com/raymondhaytermusic ). Actually just looked at that swamp workstation and see it is a similar design to what I've done :) Except I can slide in my Qwerty keyboard to get closer to my piano keys and that tray on the swamp setup doesn't look deep enough to slide in without taking out the mouse.

If you wanted to use your existing desk but it won't fit the full size keyboard, maybe sit the keyboard on some books etc - it doesn't matter if the ends overlap. Even temporarily while you decide if you like the setup or not.

User Experience
- You know when you were a kid, you rearrange your bedroom and it feels inspiring like a whole new room. Well I think that holds true with your music setup too. Next time you're in a creative rut, try moving the desk to a different spot in the room, or some other change. If you can find a way to keep flexibility for changing stuff around, then that will be a plus.

Keyboard
- I haven't used a Nektar keyboard so others can weigh in on that. There is no distributor in New Zealand so I came very close to buying from Australia and importing but decided against it because some people don't like the keybed in the Nektar, and I wanted to try before I bought.
- I ended up buying an M-Audio Code 61, which has a really, really nice keyboard. But it doesn't have automatically mapped controls for Reason which is the big drawcard of the Nektar, as well as the Nektar motorised fader which is pretty cool.

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ThisIsNotTheMusic
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Joined: 17 Aug 2016
Location: Electric Badger Studios

27 Apr 2017

Thanks for the advice. The available space is cramped - one wall in a spare bedroom, so options are limited. I do have plans to subdivide another room, expand the existing spare bedroom then snaffle another bedroom as a proper studio one day, but for now I just need to cram in a decent desk to accommodate keyboard, studio monitors, two monitors and keyboard/mouse. I'm wondering seriously now about custom making one - the studio monitor speakers are on boxes in that link just like the ones I built here, and the homemade keyboard drawer looks easy enough to make. I do need a decent ergo chair though ...
https://soundcloud.com/hissotheusic

In space, no one can hear your song ....


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LABONERECORDINGS
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08 May 2017

Roll your own :D

We've got a 900mm deep worktop (usually used for your kitchen island since bullnosed both sides), and another 600mm on the side for extra space etc.

900 deeps allows us to have 2x 19in rack units either side of a Mackie d8b mixing desk, then Machie Hr824s on top of the 19in rack stacks (they're both 4U units again custom built with rack edges so real world Reason style :D). Lots of pull out shelves too for Maschine Studio, qwerty keyboard, mouse and other controllers (small ones, Liquid Mix 32 for instance), another for a Remote 49SLii... this was all designed with the layout we needed, and allowed for bass traps (3 corners, the other has the door), ceiling clouds angled for more reflection breakups, the classic pyramid foam (glued to hardboard so could be hung like pictures around the room without fucking up the walls with adhesive), corner gobos.... and a sofa bed for that bit more absorbing high end (as well as being extra seating)

However, this is more a dedicated room rather than a straight forward setup. Getting the change to have a room to use rather than an area can help no end, it just depends on the limits you have.

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EnochLight
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08 May 2017

I'm still using a 15+ year old Ikea Jerker (still one of the best workstation desks they ever made, IMHO). I have no idea why they stopped making it, but many are shifting over to standing workstations.
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Noplan
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08 May 2017

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aeox
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08 May 2017

Noplan wrote:90353293_21245960.jpg
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pretty much this.

i made mine from a 8ft butcher block and some 2x4s. which is at a perfect height for me to either stand or sit.

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Wickline
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09 May 2017

Image
Image

I built this for probably $100-125 in materials plus $80 upgrade for the oak sheet for the top instead of regular wood. Added a swiveling retractable keyboard holder after I took this pic. Had a drop down level in the back for the monitor to be just above the top of the desk. 12 rack units below and 6 above on the left. Was modular so the top units popped off easy and the bottom came loose from the surface with a few screws. Handles to carry the lower rack section.

The reason box should give you a clue as to when this was...[emoji12]
:reason: :record: :refill: :re: :PUF_take: :rebirth: :PUF_figure:

[Signature size reduced by a moderator] :puf_bigsmile:

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Biolumin3sc3nt
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10 May 2017

Honestly, It's always nice to have a friend of a friend who know's his woodworking skills (Pauls dad) I'm beginning to think its a lost trade almost... Next desk i have, will be built by a farmer!

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Biolumin3sc3nt
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10 May 2017

He does Immaculate sculptures on stumps of trees as it is...This is child's play - woodworking at its finest

And in which, I gave him some rack essential ideals and measurements , and he kinda chuckled

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Faastwalker
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Location: NSW, Australia

11 May 2017

I'd really like to get something like this; So I don't have to sit down all the time. I often feel I need to be on my feet moving about a lot more. But it's very expensive. the same desk without the height adjustment (this is a motorized adjustment) is a third of the price.

https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/off ... -jbstiha18


Currently I have something like this; Which is a good size & the vanity panel is useful for attaching all my plugs/adapters. I've also got hook screwed in the back with all cabling tied up with these. So there's no cables hanging down on the floor at all. It's a very sturdy desk, which is the main thing I wanted really.

https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/off ... jbtoro18dk

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O1B
Posts: 2037
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

12 May 2017

Used to own the Jerker... Good Desk... BUT - the Metal and Cheap Wood meant "Resonance" ...with speakers on top.... trying to play a snare sound.... Horrible.

Go for a Solid Wood Desk, if you can, IMO.
I use another discontinued desk. Ikea's DJ Desk
Image

Little Vibrations. Great Storage. No loose Metal - nice n tight. $100. (I have 2.)
Now, they make this: Ikea Kallax Bookcase Room Divider Cube Display
A little less robust, but it looks ok. $150
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0055 ... =djte08-20
Image

Heater
Posts: 893
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

13 May 2017

Here's the desk I built.

Image

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Marco Raaphorst
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17 May 2017

ThisIsNotTheMusic wrote:Anyone have any good tips on studio desk setup? I have a max 1.5m width to play with, but currently using an Aldi 'office' desk which won't fit a full size keyboard (no room to put on a keyboard stand either). Ideally something like the SWAMP brand, with Monitor stands and keyboard/mouse slide out - except much cheaper lol. Any ideas appreciated. Must be able to purchase in Australia. I could always build my own I guess ....

http://www.swamp.net.au/swamp-ws-03-studio-workstation

While on the subject, anyone have any reservations about buying a Nektar Panorama P4 or P6 second hand? I really would like one, but once again, bit expensive ...
I would never put monitors on something as flexible as those arms. Better get a flat table and put the monitors on isoacoustics or something like that.

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ThisIsNotTheMusic
Posts: 210
Joined: 17 Aug 2016
Location: Electric Badger Studios

17 May 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
ThisIsNotTheMusic wrote:Anyone have any good tips on studio desk setup? I have a max 1.5m width to play with, but currently using an Aldi 'office' desk which won't fit a full size keyboard (no room to put on a keyboard stand either). Ideally something like the SWAMP brand, with Monitor stands and keyboard/mouse slide out - except much cheaper lol. Any ideas appreciated. Must be able to purchase in Australia. I could always build my own I guess ....

http://www.swamp.net.au/swamp-ws-03-studio-workstation

While on the subject, anyone have any reservations about buying a Nektar Panorama P4 or P6 second hand? I really would like one, but once again, bit expensive ...
I would never put monitors on something as flexible as those arms. Better get a flat table and put the monitors on isoacoustics or something like that.
Well that desk is actually huge. I had trouble getting the pieces of it into the back of a Mitsubishi Pajero when I went to pick it up. It is amazingly solid as well, a real quality item. My only gripe is that the top shelf is so far away that I will need to get giant new monitors to be able to see the screen properly! Not to worry though, for now, there is ample space on the main desk shelf for a Panorama P6 and 2 monitor screens. No problem at all with putting the monitor speakers on the arms, they are solid as a rock, and having an adjustable level and rotation means I can get incredible sound clarity. I highly recommend this - for anyone from a hobbyist like me to someone with higher aspirations. The desk even comes with a rack for hardware suited to 19" inserts. One day I might use them ... anyway. Long story short, it cost me a bit, but it was so worth it.
https://soundcloud.com/hissotheusic

In space, no one can hear your song ....

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O1B
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Joined: 26 Jan 2015

18 May 2017

- Good to hear the desk worked out.
ThisIsNotTheMusic wrote:
Marco Raaphorst wrote:...
I would never put monitors on something as flexible as those arms. Better get a flat table and put the monitors on isoacoustics or something like that.
Well that desk is actually huge. I had trouble getting the pieces of it into the back of a Mitsubishi Pajero when I went to pick it up. It is amazingly solid as well, a real quality item. My only gripe is that the top shelf is so far away that I will need to get giant new monitors to be able to see the screen properly! Not to worry though, for now, there is ample space on the main desk shelf for a Panorama P6 and 2 monitor screens. No problem at all with putting the monitor speakers on the arms, they are solid as a rock, and having an adjustable level and rotation means I can get incredible sound clarity. I highly recommend this - for anyone from a hobbyist like me to someone with higher aspirations. The desk even comes with a rack for hardware suited to 19" inserts. One day I might use them ... anyway. Long story short, it cost me a bit, but it was so worth it.

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ThisIsNotTheMusic
Posts: 210
Joined: 17 Aug 2016
Location: Electric Badger Studios

18 May 2017

I had to relocate my home studio to fit the desk in - I'm lucky I could reorganise things to get the extra space. The extra space is (almost) worth the -2C temperature coming through the all window room and uninsulated floorboards ....
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https://soundcloud.com/hissotheusic

In space, no one can hear your song ....

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ThisIsNotTheMusic
Posts: 210
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Location: Electric Badger Studios

26 May 2017

LABONERECORDINGS wrote:Roll your own :D

We've got a 900mm deep worktop (usually used for your kitchen island since bullnosed both sides), and another 600mm on the side for extra space etc.

900 deeps allows us to have 2x 19in rack units either side of a Mackie d8b mixing desk, then Machie Hr824s on top of the 19in rack stacks (they're both 4U units again custom built with rack edges so real world Reason style :D). Lots of pull out shelves too for Maschine Studio, qwerty keyboard, mouse and other controllers (small ones, Liquid Mix 32 for instance), another for a Remote 49SLii... this was all designed with the layout we needed, and allowed for bass traps (3 corners, the other has the door), ceiling clouds angled for more reflection breakups, the classic pyramid foam (glued to hardboard so could be hung like pictures around the room without fucking up the walls with adhesive), corner gobos.... and a sofa bed for that bit more absorbing high end (as well as being extra seating)

However, this is more a dedicated room rather than a straight forward setup. Getting the change to have a room to use rather than an area can help no end, it just depends on the limits you have.
I have part of a large elongated rectangular 70's sunroom with too many windows and awful acoustics to play with. I guess there are always ways to improve it.
https://soundcloud.com/hissotheusic

In space, no one can hear your song ....

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LABONERECORDINGS
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05 Jun 2017

ThisIsNotTheMusic wrote:I have part of a large elongated rectangular 70's sunroom with too many windows and awful acoustics to play with. I guess there are always ways to improve it.
Heavy curtains with blackout can work some wondered, but in a room with lots of windows... imagine that might get pretty warm :D. Maybe hessian draped (think 'arabian tent', with the fabric curving to soften some of those hard glass reflections).

Thing is you don't have to go crazy, plus depends on the size of the room. You could perhaps make some room divider style sound boards to 'block' the window reflections, plus that way they're not permanent. You could space them off the wall by say perhaps 4 to 6 inches, any sound that does go through the boards have to reflect and come back through the board again, so creating a buffer plus airspace makes it harder for the sound to come back as a reflection. Or instead of divider boards stood on the floor, why not make some hanging ones? that way you could create a frame with hardwood of a couple inches deep, get some Rockwool board and make then say 3ft / 4ft long x 18in to 2ft wide, and cover them in a fabric of your choice (the stuff you can breathe through would be ideal so the sound passes through and into the Rockwool), and by hanging them you could create a nice environment as well as a sort of feature to add colour / tones to your working area. Hanging with 2x chains and hooks into the ceiling struts may work to control some of those reflections, cost is relatively cheap (depending on the number of boards, Rockwool and fabric of course). We used combat fabric for ours over a grey fabric (we had red / white / black / grey colour scheme in Lab One, Lab two is now blues blacks whites), and we done a RoomEqWizard test yesterday and we're really happy with the results since we've got a nearly flat room response (sine sweep check, looked pretty good and not many if any problematic spikes or nulls), based on the ideal seating spot.

We're kinda lucky we've only got the 1 main window (which the 48in screen now practically hides so it really is a man cave).

Also volume level is king - you don't have to be blaring loud, in fact if you right at a quieter level, you'll find you can make much more dynamic music, without room compromising.

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LABONERECORDINGS
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05 Jun 2017

Other good Ikea hacks.... we used the shoerack idea and took it a bit further, by adding a second shelf so we have a tapedeck, minidisc player, dbx compressor, MOTU MIDI 128 and TC Powercore X8 as well as 2x cdjs + Stanton mixer all within ~450mm space footprint. We can even fit 2x turntables underneath onto the main worktop, and use the rest of the hacked leg uprights as headphone hooks and/or wire wrap points (hanging patch cables etc)

http://www.ikeahackers.net/2012/08/ikea ... iture.html

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Marco Raaphorst
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05 Jun 2017

LABONERECORDINGS wrote:
ThisIsNotTheMusic wrote:I have part of a large elongated rectangular 70's sunroom with too many windows and awful acoustics to play with. I guess there are always ways to improve it.
Also volume level is king - you don't have to be blaring loud, in fact if you right at a quieter level, you'll find you can make much more dynamic music, without room compromising.
I agree although I still don't understand how it works. They say the vibration in a room is lineair. So it's only our ears who seems to adjust better to low level than a louder level, right?

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LABONERECORDINGS
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05 Jun 2017

What we mean is; when you have levels up loud, you automatically can induce more 'stronger' reflections due to more air pressure. If your target sound level is say 75dB using pink noise (we did a measure using a Radioshack sound meter set to weighted C, slow response), you may find that you are creating less reflections, which help out. Louder you go, the more chance you have of reflections coming back closer to you, resulting in smearing / muddying the sound at your listening spot.

Our room (surprisingly) is relatively square (not ideal by any means), but with the way we've broken up the reflections and used acoustic foam fairly well spaced and evenly, our reflections soften earlier which make them harder to come back and be heard. That's one key reason to using lower levels. Another is to prevent ear fatigue, resulting in longer sessions (with breaks of course).

Speaker placement is also something quite key, if you're restricted to a slim 'zone' (say a small workstation area) then your stereo width might be compromised, so to 'widen' you might add stereo-widening tools to compensate your listening area, but you might be overcooking it, especially when you check on another sound source / playback unit/device (car, home cinema sound system). Too far apart and you may have great width but then distance becomes a problem, so you may end up shrinking the stereo width again to compensate. We're at 4ft triangle setup which seems pretty good - this leaves around 3ft either side of the speaker (pretty sure we're in a 10-11ft wide room, x 13ft x 8ft high give or take a few inches on those), so nulls (cancellations) may be a problem, but after RoomEqWizard checking, we're looking pretty good for our placement.

Can highly recommend the Iso-L8r acoustic stands too, seriously help out comparing to Auralex foam stands we've used before.

So, even though we're sidetracking a bit, there's a few things to consider depending on your circumstance. If you've got the chance to make a permanent home or working-studio, definitely look into a few things like ceiling clouds, acoustic traps, acoustic foam, materials that may also work for you (we had curtains in a V shape which did block some sounds better to dampen zing as well as looking good at the same time), but also look at your budget you want to stay within, compare that against your ideal working 'heaven' setup, compromising, sound testing, speaker testing (highly recommend this, we adore our Mackie HR824s and got a backup set just in case). If you can't go as far as hijacking a room for your own cave of audible experiments, don't feel downtrodden or downhearted, make use of what you do have, as you can still write the next club banger or chart topper on nothing more than a laptop + a microphone (it has been done).

So yeah you say you've got a small area, that's fine, you make use of what you've got. In your scenario, we would look at headphone style monitoring but look up plugins such as Redline by 112dB, Beyerdynamic do a free one (http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/virtual-studio.html) which we'll gladly test out (since we're using DT880s), so these plugins might help give you a 'room' to listen in when you haven't got the space (also if you have Reason 9.5 of course)

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Marco Raaphorst
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05 Jun 2017

A room is lineair so it shouldn't make a difference at which level you playback a sound, right? The reflections are the same, everything stays the say on every level.

The only thing which might respond differently to sound are the non-lineair speakers/monitors and (very non-lineair) our ears. Right?

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selig
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05 Jun 2017

LABONERECORDINGS wrote:What we mean is; when you have levels up loud, you automatically can induce more 'stronger' reflections due to more air pressure. If your target sound level is say 75dB using pink noise (we did a measure using a Radioshack sound meter set to weighted C, slow response), you may find that you are creating less reflections, which help out. Louder you go, the more chance you have of reflections coming back closer to you, resulting in smearing / muddying the sound at your listening spot.

Our room (surprisingly) is relatively square (not ideal by any means), but with the way we've broken up the reflections and used acoustic foam fairly well spaced and evenly, our reflections soften earlier which make them harder to come back and be heard. That's one key reason to using lower levels. Another is to prevent ear fatigue, resulting in longer sessions (with breaks of course).
Yes it's true that more volume means louder reflections, but it's also true that more volume means more direct signal as well (or are you suggesting otherwise?).

Yet you seem to be suggesting that the relationship between the two changes, which I would think is impossible.

Can you provide more info (or links) that discuss this further?
:)
Selig Audio, LLC

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