Advice for new external sound card

[EnochLight]

I'm seriously considering a Babyface Pro, but.... I'll wait it out and see if I can score one on sale or on a promo though. $749 USD is a bit steep for this IMHO.

[sentient.minority]

I'm seriously considering a Babyface Pro, but.... I'll wait it out and see if I can score one on sale or on a promo though. $749 USD is a bit steep for this IMHO.

Compared to the opposition it's money well spent.

Perhaps look for a secondhand Babyface (not pro)?

[EnochLight]

I'm seriously considering a Babyface Pro, but.... I'll wait it out and see if I can score one on sale or on a promo though. $749 USD is a bit steep for this IMHO.

Compared to the opposition it's money well spent.

Perhaps look for a secondhand Babyface (not pro)?

Actually, my Sweetwater rep can do $699 shipped for a new Babyface Pro. It's not much, but I just might jump on this!

[sentient.minority]

I'm seriously considering a Babyface Pro, but.... I'll wait it out and see if I can score one on sale or on a promo though. $749 USD is a bit steep for this IMHO.

Compared to the opposition it's money well spent.

Perhaps look for a secondhand Babyface (not pro)?

Actually, my Sweetwater rep can do $699 shipped for a new Babyface Pro. It's not much, but I just might jump on this!

Let me know how you get on with it should you purchase one.

[EnochLight]

Let me know how you get on with it should you purchase one.

Will do; thanks!

[EnochLight]

*UPDATE

Just ordered a Babyface Pro. I've read that while most audio interfaces at this price point (and less) use audio controller chips, RME uses a field-programmable gate array (FPGA) to implement their own interface logic, which is why the latency is so low on USB 2.

Just how low?

I'll be sure to report as soon as I test.

[QVprod]

Right now I'm struggling between choosing a Focusrite 18i20 or an RME Babyface Pro. It's just the cost that's killing me - and I'm not sold on the "single knob" interface of the Babayface.

Those latency numbers for the Focusrite concern me though. That's far worse than my current Balance.

Extremely late, but I guess in case anyone else is interested, The latency on the Scarlett 18i20 is nowhere near bad (even without the mix control software) 14ms input at 512 samples is actually pretty decent and I can go as low as 64 samples in Reason.

IMG]http://i64.tinypic.com/2e5i1ja.png[/IMG]

[EnochLight]

Right now I'm struggling between choosing a Focusrite 18i20 or an RME Babyface Pro. It's just the cost that's killing me - and I'm not sold on the "single knob" interface of the Babayface.

Those latency numbers for the Focusrite concern me though. That's far worse than my current Balance.

Extremely late, but I guess in case anyone else is interested, The latency on the Scarlett 18i20 is nowhere near bad (even without the mix control software) 14ms input at 512 samples is actually pretty decent and I can go as low as 64 samples in Reason.

image.png (95.67 KiB) Viewed 2014 times

Hmmmm... That's actually crazy high latency IMHO. I could never work with that unless I was in the mixing stage only.

That's a total latency of 26 ms and that's not even true RTL!

What do you get at 256, 128, and 64 samples?

[ScuzzyEye]

Hmmmm... That's actually crazy high latency IMHO. I could never work with that unless I was in the mixing stage only.

That's a total latency of 26 ms and that's not even true RTL!

What do you get at 256, 128, and 64 samples?

The absolute minimum latency for 512 samples at 44,100 Hz is 11.6 ms. That is, 1 sample takes 1/44.1 thousandth of a second, so 512 samples would be 11.6 milliseconds. That's 12 ms output is what 512 samples gets you. The 2 extra ms in input is pretty typical of a hardware buffer too. I wouldn't say "crazy high", unless you're just not used to working at 512 samples. Then yeah, it may be 2 or 4 times higher than you're expecting.

[sonicbyte]

I have an RME Babyface sound card which is awesome.

RME drivers are some of the best out there and they support their products for years.

Worth a look if not to costly for you.

Are you on Mac or PC?

I am on Mac.

The driver latency is better than the Apogee Duet I kept for around an hour (dire drivers and firmware updates, will elaborate if necessary). I think I usually have it on 48k at 32 samples, very quick and it behaves on big projects that involve Cubase and Reason ReWire without too much stress. Bear in mind that I don't have the most powerful Mac either (2013 MacBook Pro Retina 2.3GHz).

Also much better than the old Saffire Pro 14 FireWire interface I had.

I have also expanded it with a Behringer ADA8200 for 8 more audio inputs (just so you know I'm not a total gear snob).

The one knob on my standard Babyface controls inputs (both L & R together or independently), outputs (both L & R together or independently) and headphones.

The TotalMix software setup is far more flexible than the Focusrite MixControl one too.

As I understand it the performance is equally as impressive on Windows and you will have support and drivers for ages!

A totally regret free purchase for me.

Just found this too: http://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=7491672

Have you better latency / CPU performance with this than other mid/low range audio interfaces ? I have a 2.4 GHz Intel Core i5 MAC with 8G Ram and I'm struggling with Reason 8.3 performance, but as I said on earlier I only have a M-audio fast track pro.... So a high-end audio interface improves Reason performance in your opinion ?
Thanks

[QVprod]

Right now I'm struggling between choosing a Focusrite 18i20 or an RME Babyface Pro. It's just the cost that's killing me - and I'm not sold on the "single knob" interface of the Babayface.

Those latency numbers for the Focusrite concern me though. That's far worse than my current Balance.

Extremely late, but I guess in case anyone else is interested, The latency on the Scarlett 18i20 is nowhere near bad (even without the mix control software) 14ms input at 512 samples is actually pretty decent and I can go as low as 64 samples in Reason.

image.png

Hmmmm... That's actually crazy high latency IMHO. I could never work with that unless I was in the mixing stage only.

That's a total latency of 26 ms and that's not even true RTL!

What do you get at 256, 128, and 64 samples?

Hmmmm... That's actually crazy high latency IMHO. I could never work with that unless I was in the mixing stage only.

That's a total latency of 26 ms and that's not even true RTL!

What do you get at 256, 128, and 64 samples?

The absolute minimum latency for 512 samples at 44,100 Hz is 11.6 ms. That is, 1 sample takes 1/44.1 thousandth of a second, so 512 samples would be 11.6 milliseconds. That's 12 ms output is what 512 samples gets you. The 2 extra ms in input is pretty typical of a hardware buffer too. I wouldn't say "crazy high", unless you're just not used to working at 512 samples. Then yeah, it may be 2 or 4 times higher than you're expecting.

What Scuzzy said. That's pretty normal at 512. If you're monitoring recording through Reason then you would usually drop buffer to 256 or 128 anyway. But with the mix control software, theres very little reason to do that unless you're tracking through fx RE/plugins. Even at 512 I can still route a reverb return to the mix control for monitoring say a vocal and it work well.

[EnochLight]

Typically, I've always strived for less than 10 ms (which is indistinguishable from classic hardware response, IMHO) while composing. With Balance, on a medium sized project (without crackle/pop) @ 128 samples I can usually get:

really_heavy.jpg (67.14 KiB) Viewed 1999 times

When my project starts getting heavier, I usually have to step up to 256 samples, which lands me:

heavy.jpg (65.71 KiB) Viewed 1999 times

And during mixdown, if my project gets pretty meaty:

medium.jpg (65.43 KiB) Viewed 1999 times

[marcuswitt]

Thanks for the replies, can anyone point good alternatives (brand/models) to Scarlett ? just in case..

Just to turn this debate from Focusrite back to your actual question: Well, from my perspective the MOTU Ultralite Hybrid or the Ultralite AVB seem to be good candidates to do the job. Both devices look similar but are based on different core technologies. Over the years MOTU's USB drivers for Windows became very stable and reliable so that I don't see any reason - except their price tags - not to take a closer look at the Ultralites. If yoy find each those devices too expensive then consider the MOTU Microbook IIc, instead. Good luck!

[EnochLight]

I was considering the MOTU Ultralite AVB for a time, but having had an absolutely horrible experience with the original MOTU Ultralite (this was the 1st version that used Firewire), I was reluctant to cast my cards down on the new one. Good to hear that they got their drivers in order, though.

[sentient.minority]

I have an RME Babyface sound card which is awesome.

RME drivers are some of the best out there and they support their products for years.

Worth a look if not to costly for you.

Are you on Mac or PC?

I am on Mac.

The driver latency is better than the Apogee Duet I kept for around an hour (dire drivers and firmware updates, will elaborate if necessary). I think I usually have it on 48k at 32 samples, very quick and it behaves on big projects that involve Cubase and Reason ReWire without too much stress. Bear in mind that I don't have the most powerful Mac either (2013 MacBook Pro Retina 2.3GHz).

Also much better than the old Saffire Pro 14 FireWire interface I had.

I have also expanded it with a Behringer ADA8200 for 8 more audio inputs (just so you know I'm not a total gear snob).

The one knob on my standard Babyface controls inputs (both L & R together or independently), outputs (both L & R together or independently) and headphones.

The TotalMix software setup is far more flexible than the Focusrite MixControl one too.

As I understand it the performance is equally as impressive on Windows and you will have support and drivers for ages!

A totally regret free purchase for me.

Just found this too: http://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=7491672

Have you better latency / CPU performance with this than other mid/low range audio interfaces ? I have a 2.4 GHz Intel Core i5 MAC with 8G Ram and I'm struggling with Reason 8.3 performance, but as I said on earlier I only have a M-audio fast track pro.... So a high-end audio interface improves Reason performance in your opinion ?
Thanks

I had a Saffire Pro 14 before and can say that the Babyface is much better in terms of latency, also seems to take the load better on big projects too, so yes (in my experience). I guess the best way to test is with a Reason stress test file but alas I'm not willing to upgrade from Reason 7 to 8.

[sentient.minority]

This link is getting on a bit but RME seem to feature a lot in the top 10 best latencies:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-c ... -base.html

These figures are based on Windows performance and in my experience most sound cards function as well or better on Mac.

[QVprod]

And during mixdown, if my project gets pretty meaty:

The difference between this and the 18i20 at 512 samples is only 1ms latency at input and output (not counting the mix control software).

[EnochLight]

The difference between this and the 18i20 at 512 samples is only 1ms latency at input and output (not counting the mix control software).

True. I was more interested at the latency achieved at lower samples. How does yours look at 256, 128, and 64? Can you work without pop/crackle on your projects at those lower rates?

[QVprod]

The difference between this and the 18i20 at 512 samples is only 1ms latency at input and output (not counting the mix control software).

True. I was more interested at the latency achieved at lower samples. How does yours look at 256, 128, and 64? Can you work without pop/crackle on your projects at those lower rates?

64 is pretty much the limit for a normal sized session for me it'll run but there are pops and clicks. A fairly empty session would probably run fine though. I personally rarely have need to change from 256 or 512 though.

64 samples

Screen Shot 2016-02-19 at 11.31.17 PM.png (73.82 KiB) Viewed 1971 times

128 samples

Screen Shot 2016-02-19 at 11.31.36 PM.png (75.67 KiB) Viewed 1971 times

256 samples

Screen Shot 2016-02-19 at 11.36.22 PM.png (81.74 KiB) Viewed 1971 times

[EnochLight]

Nice; thanks!