Roli Seaboard GRAND - the ultimate keyboard

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
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avasopht
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17 Jan 2016

Scott Storch would have a field day with something like this, a keyboard with extended scope for expression.

Absolutely amazing.


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normen
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Joined: 16 Jan 2015

17 Jan 2016

Pretty cool, sometimes I wish I could properly play the piano, seems like the coolest toys are made for keyboarders ^^

However, if you have pitch bend on every note, how does this work with MIDI signals? Theres only one pitch bend per channel..?

kloeckno
Posts: 177
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

17 Jan 2016

normen wrote:Pretty cool, sometimes I wish I could properly play the piano, seems like the coolest toys are made for keyboarders ^^

However, if you have pitch bend on every note, how does this work with MIDI signals? Theres only one pitch bend per channel..?
It sends polyphonic aftertouch to do that if I remember correctly. So it wouldn't be compatible with many synths since a lot of keyboards don't offer it, so therefore poly AT isn't integrated into every software and hardware synth like pitchbend and the mod wheel.

You can also change the way it operates in the Seaboard menu I believe, so it sends pitchbend normally but with a different MIDI channel for each note. That is similar to how MIDI guitars work to allow bending individual stringes.

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O1B
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26 Oct 2017

why not?


Pharrell Williams Joins ROLI as Chief Creative Officer

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2017/ ... -officer/
Visiting ROLI’s offices in London, Pharrell said: “Music touches all of us, and for a long time I've been passionate about finding ways to share the power of music with more people. When I met Roland Lamb and ROLI, I immediately felt we were working towards exactly the same goals, and so I'm super excited that we're kicking off this partnership.”

The “Happy by Pharrell” studiopack. “Happy” is a “groundbreaking” studiopack for ROLI’s NOISE app. The pack deconstructs the chords, basslines, and vocals of “Happy,” giving the user the raw materials to create their own song.
Image

Business Insider also disclosed that Pharrell had invested in ROLI, but remarked that the company did not disclose how much Williams would invest. The company has raised a total of $43.5 million (£32.8 million) in funding thus far.

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miscend
Posts: 1955
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26 Oct 2017

Roli is gonna burn a lot of investors and capitalists. They are such an over priced niche product.

Remember the Eigenharp? That never went anywhere.

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joeyluck
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26 Oct 2017

miscend wrote:
26 Oct 2017
Roli is gonna burn a lot of investors and capitalists. They are such an over priced niche product.

Remember the Eigenharp? That never went anywhere.
Have you not seen the Blocks yet? Those are selling like hotcakes. Got myself the Seaboard Block. They also acquired FXpansion. I think they are doing pretty well. Very excited to see Pharrell join the team.

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miscend
Posts: 1955
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26 Oct 2017

joeyluck wrote:
26 Oct 2017
miscend wrote:
26 Oct 2017
Roli is gonna burn a lot of investors and capitalists. They are such an over priced niche product.

Remember the Eigenharp? That never went anywhere.
Have you not seen the Blocks yet? Those are selling like hotcakes. Got myself the Seaboard Block. They also acquired FXpansion. I think they are doing pretty well. Very excited to see Pharrell join the team.
They spend a ton of money on marketing like a hot silicon valley tech start up. Glitzy product launches at posh London venues. We'll see if those blocks controllers make them profitable. But they're limited by the lack of a universal communication protocol.

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O1B
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29 Mar 2018

NOISE app updated $9.99

SWAM Flutes, SWAM Strings, SWAM Woodwinds, SWAM Saxophones, Bass Quartet and Treble Quartet by Audio Modelling are all available in the NOISE Soundpack Store for ($9.99) £9.99 each.

https://roli.com/stories/swam-flutes

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joeyluck
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29 Mar 2018

O1B wrote:
29 Mar 2018
NOISE app updated $9.99

SWAM Flutes, SWAM Strings, SWAM Woodwinds, SWAM Saxophones, Bass Quartet and Treble Quartet by Audio Modelling are all available in the NOISE Soundpack Store for ($9.99) £9.99 each.

https://roli.com/stories/swam-flutes
Yeah it's a great time to get a Seaboard Block too! You get the full versions of Equator and Strobe2 for free :)
viewtopic.php?p=383319

I use the VSTs of the SWAM strings bundle. Absolutely amazing :thumbs_up:

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jayhosking
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30 Mar 2018

OK, can somebody help me understand all this? (God, I am not as old as this sounds, I swear, only a marketing ignoramus.)

You buy a Seaboard Block. It comes with a couple of "Players" for 200+ presets on the computer. You can also use their "NOISE" app for most of those same presets, plus you can buy other packs (e.g. SWAM) for $10? But if you buy SWAM for the computer, they're $120+ each? And in any case, you're not getting MIDI out of these things for Reason, so it's either audio from the desktop or audio out of your phone via that NOISE app.

Is that all correct? I'm interested in the control surface and the unique ways to play and express, especially when it comes to "real" instruments. Plus $60 for SWAM woodwinds, saxes, treble quartet, bass quartet, flutes, and strings seems like a crazy good deal (even if you're getting audio only). I'm also interested in how it would change playing analogue synths, especially gliding on pitch. But am I getting all that right?

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jayhosking
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30 Mar 2018

Whoops. Maybe this is the wrong thread. I'll ask elsewhere!

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O1B
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Joined: 26 Jan 2015

31 Mar 2018

Craig Anderton: MPE defines the future of electronic music ... MIDI 2.0
https://roli.com/stories/mpe-craig-anderton
Image

miscend wrote:
26 Oct 2017
Roli is gonna burn a lot of investors and capitalists. They are such an over priced niche product.

Remember the Eigenharp? That never went anywhere.

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wireless
Posts: 100
Joined: 14 Apr 2017

10 Apr 2018

jayhosking wrote:
30 Mar 2018
OK, can somebody help me understand all this? (God, I am not as old as this sounds, I swear, only a marketing ignoramus.)

You buy a Seaboard Block. It comes with a couple of "Players" for 200+ presets on the computer. You can also use their "NOISE" app for most of those same presets, plus you can buy other packs (e.g. SWAM) for $10? But if you buy SWAM for the computer, they're $120+ each? And in any case, you're not getting MIDI out of these things for Reason, so it's either audio from the desktop or audio out of your phone via that NOISE app.

Is that all correct? I'm interested in the control surface and the unique ways to play and express, especially when it comes to "real" instruments. Plus $60 for SWAM woodwinds, saxes, treble quartet, bass quartet, flutes, and strings seems like a crazy good deal (even if you're getting audio only). I'm also interested in how it would change playing analogue synths, especially gliding on pitch. But am I getting all that right?
Hi jayhosking! I'm also interested in the Seaboard Blocks keyboards and watching with keen interest. This kit and software is moving fast right now and I am wary of being caught up as a 'too early' adopter at this point in time. There are ongoing issues with hardware and software to be aware of that I have heard from users - e.g. production reliability, bluetooth on the keyboard is 'nearly' stable, NOISE app is not yet working for Android users, MPE standard is not yet finalised (many DAWS, incl Reason, do not have even elementary MPE capability), early version lightpads not well received, there have been battery charging problems on the loop blocks, the 5D programming of some SWAM music packs has been criticised, etc.
Oh, and did I say already, it will not strut it's stuff within Reason.....

However, the concept of adding expressivity to playing on a keyboard-type device is evolutionary, and with the hope that the product development and production will stabilise I thought it could be helpful to share my research so far.....
  • The Blocks keyboard is a midi controller and retails for about £237 (best street price from e.g. thomann, bax-shop etc)
  • It has no in-built tone generators and does not produce audio out at all.
  • It uses a richer version of midi called MPE, that allows it to transmit five sets of controls from the keys (see the product guide on '5D' - strike, glide, slide, press and lift) rather than the usual one. This allows the artist a huge increase in expression and for example can totally transform 'normal' instruments such as violin, saxophone, clarinet etc which don't translate well to being played on a conventional keyboard.
  • Due to its use of MPE, this keyboard would be a waste of time with the current version of Reason since MPE is not supported. It should be possible to play it in conventional keyboard mode and without the expressivenes, but an ordinary keyboard probably works better for that. It is intended to be used with it's own bundled software (e.g. Equator player), with stand-alone instruments or via MPE-capable DAW such as Reaper, Tracktion 8 etc (the product website lists those DAW that are currently compatible, but note that the supplied bundle includes Tracktion 8).
  • Editing MPE can be an interesting experience. Due to the multiple layers of midi that can be issued from one playing session, then editing one channel needs to maintain awareness of the impact on other channels. Reaper is believed to handle this concept with some elegance, but watch out for this as an issue. To be fair, MPE is still a bit of an emerging standard and many would disagree that it has stabilised yet.
  • To amplify the Equator point, the bundle seems to include a sawn-off version of the full Equator synth which limits the amount of synth tones and disables the editor (i.e. no making your own sounds in the Player). There is an upgrade price to get to the full version, which I've variously seen as either £79 or £49.
  • You appear to be correct on the pricing for the SWAM music packs - they do appear to be either 9.99 or 120.00 for the same pack depending on whether the intended use is the NOISE app or the Equator synth. That surely cannot be intentional, and given the current discrimination against android users, this is a HUGE disincentive.
  • The bundle includes in-built functionality to operate with the NOISE app - this is freely available as a download and is intended for use on both phone and tablet. In theory this presents a highly portable sound making system. The keyboard and ios phone/tablet can communicate via bluetooth and the inter-working looks to be brilliant. The NOISE app contains the sounds and greatly enhances access to the controls (this works especially well if you add in the Lightpad M to the hardware (the 'M' is the improved version of the lightpad - don't get the earlier version as the touch sensitivity was poor). The downside is that this is heavily weighted to apple users at present. Yes, there is a beta version for android, but I'm not hearing anything good about that so far - maybe in the future? If you're not into Apple products, then I think a lot of the functionality will be missing.
  • The bundle contains Strobe 2, which appears to be another synth
  • The bundle also includes a configuration tool called Dashboard that allows detailed tweaking of the internal parameters (such as the sensitivity to touch, extent of pitch bend etc). However I've seen comments that upgrading some aspects of the software (this one for example) without an apple is problematic
If you plan to buy, I would recommend you first check a) the bundle contents, and b) any limitations and upgrade costs to get to full versions. Hope this helps and - good luck!

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jayhosking
Posts: 613
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10 Apr 2018

Hey, thanks for the feedback, wireless!

In the end, I was trading in some old gear, so I took the risk on the Seaboard Block hardware. I'm just wrapping up a semester, so I've had limited time to tinker with it, but so far I really like the changes it brings to expressivity. The software isn't pretty to look at—both Equator and Strobe have awful GUIs—but purchasing when I did, I also got upgraded versions of both, which seems absolutely critical to enjoying the keyboard with a computer. But more than anything else, I find myself playing it while paired to my iPhone, because those SWAM sounds are just beautiful. I've been looking for a good, expressive strings/horns/woodwinds solution for a while, and while this "only" gives me audio out, I imagine all my horn sections now on will take advantage of these SWAM sounds from my phone. In comparison to what I would have paid for the VST sax/trumpet etc. I was looking at, this is just a little bit more and comes with a keyboard that lets me play totally differently.

And I LOVE the idea of simply plonking a second keyboard down, it magnetizing to the first, and now I have twice the octaves!

swamptooth
Posts: 166
Joined: 05 Feb 2015

11 Apr 2018

wireless wrote:
10 Apr 2018
jayhosking wrote:
30 Mar 2018
OK, can somebody help me understand all this? (God, I am not as old as this sounds, I swear, only a marketing ignoramus.)

You buy a Seaboard Block. It comes with a couple of "Players" for 200+ presets on the computer. You can also use their "NOISE" app for most of those same presets, plus you can buy other packs (e.g. SWAM) for $10? But if you buy SWAM for the computer, they're $120+ each? And in any case, you're not getting MIDI out of these things for Reason, so it's either audio from the desktop or audio out of your phone via that NOISE app.

Is that all correct? I'm interested in the control surface and the unique ways to play and express, especially when it comes to "real" instruments. Plus $60 for SWAM woodwinds, saxes, treble quartet, bass quartet, flutes, and strings seems like a crazy good deal (even if you're getting audio only). I'm also interested in how it would change playing analogue synths, especially gliding on pitch. But am I getting all that right?
Hi jayhosking! I'm also interested in the Seaboard Blocks keyboards and watching with keen interest. This kit and software is moving fast right now and I am wary of being caught up as a 'too early' adopter at this point in time. There are ongoing issues with hardware and software to be aware of that I have heard from users - e.g. production reliability, bluetooth on the keyboard is 'nearly' stable, NOISE app is not yet working for Android users, MPE standard is not yet finalised (many DAWS, incl Reason, do not have even elementary MPE capability), early version lightpads not well received, there have been battery charging problems on the loop blocks, the 5D programming of some SWAM music packs has been criticised, etc.
Oh, and did I say already, it will not strut it's stuff within Reason.....

However, the concept of adding expressivity to playing on a keyboard-type device is evolutionary, and with the hope that the product development and production will stabilise I thought it could be helpful to share my research so far.....
  • The Blocks keyboard is a midi controller and retails for about £237 (best street price from e.g. thomann, bax-shop etc)
  • It has no in-built tone generators and does not produce audio out at all.
  • It uses a richer version of midi called MPE, that allows it to transmit five sets of controls from the keys (see the product guide on '5D' - strike, glide, slide, press and lift) rather than the usual one. This allows the artist a huge increase in expression and for example can totally transform 'normal' instruments such as violin, saxophone, clarinet etc which don't translate well to being played on a conventional keyboard.
  • Due to its use of MPE, this keyboard would be a waste of time with the current version of Reason since MPE is not supported. It should be possible to play it in conventional keyboard mode and without the expressivenes, but an ordinary keyboard probably works better for that. It is intended to be used with it's own bundled software (e.g. Equator player), with stand-alone instruments or via MPE-capable DAW such as Reaper, Tracktion 8 etc (the product website lists those DAW that are currently compatible, but note that the supplied bundle includes Tracktion 8).
  • Editing MPE can be an interesting experience. Due to the multiple layers of midi that can be issued from one playing session, then editing one channel needs to maintain awareness of the impact on other channels. Reaper is believed to handle this concept with some elegance, but watch out for this as an issue. To be fair, MPE is still a bit of an emerging standard and many would disagree that it has stabilised yet.
  • To amplify the Equator point, the bundle seems to include a sawn-off version of the full Equator synth which limits the amount of synth tones and disables the editor (i.e. no making your own sounds in the Player). There is an upgrade price to get to the full version, which I've variously seen as either £79 or £49.
  • You appear to be correct on the pricing for the SWAM music packs - they do appear to be either 9.99 or 120.00 for the same pack depending on whether the intended use is the NOISE app or the Equator synth. That surely cannot be intentional, and given the current discrimination against android users, this is a HUGE disincentive.
  • The bundle includes in-built functionality to operate with the NOISE app - this is freely available as a download and is intended for use on both phone and tablet. In theory this presents a highly portable sound making system. The keyboard and ios phone/tablet can communicate via bluetooth and the inter-working looks to be brilliant. The NOISE app contains the sounds and greatly enhances access to the controls (this works especially well if you add in the Lightpad M to the hardware (the 'M' is the improved version of the lightpad - don't get the earlier version as the touch sensitivity was poor). The downside is that this is heavily weighted to apple users at present. Yes, there is a beta version for android, but I'm not hearing anything good about that so far - maybe in the future? If you're not into Apple products, then I think a lot of the functionality will be missing.
  • The bundle contains Strobe 2, which appears to be another synth
  • The bundle also includes a configuration tool called Dashboard that allows detailed tweaking of the internal parameters (such as the sensitivity to touch, extent of pitch bend etc). However I've seen comments that upgrading some aspects of the software (this one for example) without an apple is problematic
If you plan to buy, I would recommend you first check a) the bundle contents, and b) any limitations and upgrade costs to get to full versions. Hope this helps and - good luck!
Um...
MPE was just adopted into the MIDI standard by MAMA...

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2018/ ... -official/

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wireless
Posts: 100
Joined: 14 Apr 2017

12 Apr 2018

Thanks for the news jayhosking and for the update swamptooth....

Now, all that is needed to complete my ideal is for a) Props to make Reason MPE-compatible, and 2) Roli to release NOISE for Android tablets. Even as I write this, I know I'm being naive, but don't ask, don't get!

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jayhosking
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12 Apr 2018

Yeah, right now the MIDI side is crippled without support from Props (but like I said, the audio is just fine in most instances that I'm currently using it). And yeah, I can't imagine it being worth it without the phone OS support, since they haven't brought those SWAM packs to their computer library. What a weird bummer for non-iPhone/iPad people.

grueser3
Posts: 64
Joined: 03 Jul 2016

16 Apr 2018

Here's the newest thing supposedly announcing tomorrow, now you can control pitch bend etc with a ring.


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ljekio
Posts: 962
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

17 Apr 2018

O1B wrote:
29 Mar 2018
NOISE app updated $9.99

SWAM Flutes, SWAM Strings, SWAM Woodwinds, SWAM Saxophones, Bass Quartet and Treble Quartet by Audio Modelling are all available in the NOISE Soundpack Store for ($9.99) £9.99 each.

https://roli.com/stories/swam-flutes
I wish SWAM onboard my mobile devices but i havent ROLI.
Can Noise App control by another midi controllers?

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jayhosking
Posts: 613
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17 Apr 2018

ljekio wrote:
17 Apr 2018

I wish SWAM onboard my mobile devices but i havent ROLI.
Can Noise App control by another midi controllers?
It can be played quite well with an iPhone, especially something with force sensitivity (e.g. iPhone 7 and up?). I haven't checked to see if other controllers work, though.

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Marco Raaphorst
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17 Apr 2018

an interesting step into more expression.

I always believe contact pickups are best for new instrument. you get that immediately reaction even when touching the instrument. would be great to add that acoustic part, key noises etc to the sound. but I am sure I am in a minority because no one makes these :)

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