Behringer BCR2000: Good reason controller?

[Halo]

I was using a BCR but wasn't very happy with it. Sometimes it worked but often it didn't. You never knew which knob is for which in the DAW. :-/
My current device is the "Nektar Panorama p1" and this is so easy to use.

[mcatalao]

Jonheal,

Groups are great tools, i use them all the time. Groups also help you to use multiple BCF2000 at the same time so that you can control 16 channels at the same time. I could never hook 2 toguether and groups allowed me to do it with usb on both of them. Actually, i can have as many controllers i want, as long as i have group selectors and usb slots...

For tweaking all possible parameters for the Red Queen EQ, i think i used groups too.

[Olivier]

I use groups all the time. Got a nice little script that generates a template for me.

Code: Select all

Scope	Software Vendor	com.vendorname.productname
//	Control Surface Item	Key	Remotable Item	Scale	Mode

Define Group	Controls	main	osc
Map	Preset Left Button		Controls=osc			main
Map	Preset Right Button		Controls=osc			main
Map	Push Encoder 1:1		0		Single Dot	main
Map	Push Encoder 1:2		0		Single Dot	main
Map	Push Encoder 1:3		0		Single Dot	main
Map	Push Encoder 1:4		0		Single Dot	main
Map	Push Encoder 1:5		0		Single Dot	main
Map	Push Encoder 1:6		0		Single Dot	main
Map	Push Encoder 1:7		0		Single Dot	main
Map	Push Encoder 1:8		0		Single Dot	main
Map	Upper Row Button 1		0			main
Map	Upper Row Button 2		0			main
Map	Upper Row Button 3		0			main
Map	Upper Row Button 4		0			main
Map	Upper Row Button 5		0			main
Map	Upper Row Button 6		0			main
Map	Upper Row Button 7		0			main
Map	Upper Row Button 8		0			main
Map	Lower Row Button 1		0			main
Map	Lower Row Button 2		0			main
Map	Lower Row Button 3		0			main
Map	Lower Row Button 4		0			main
Map	Lower Row Button 5		0			main
Map	Lower Row Button 6		0			main
Map	Lower Row Button 7		0			main
Map	Lower Row Button 8		0			main
Map	Top Row Encoder 1		0			main
Map	Top Row Encoder 2		0			main
Map	Top Row Encoder 3		0			main
Map	Top Row Encoder 4		0			main
Map	Top Row Encoder 5		0			main
Map	Top Row Encoder 6		0			main
Map	Top Row Encoder 7		0			main
Map	Top Row Encoder 8		0			main
Map	Middle Row Encoder 1		0			main
Map	Middle Row Encoder 2		0			main
Map	Middle Row Encoder 3		0			main
Map	Middle Row Encoder 4		0			main
Map	Middle Row Encoder 5		0			main
Map	Middle Row Encoder 6		0			main
Map	Middle Row Encoder 7		0			main
Map	Middle Row Encoder 8		0			main
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 1		0			main
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 2		0			main
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 3		0			main
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 4		0			main
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 5		0			main
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 6		0			main
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 7		0			main
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 8		0			main
Map	Preset Left Button		Controls=main			osc
Map	Preset Right Button		Controls=main			osc
Map	Push Encoder 1:1		0		Single Dot	osc
Map	Push Encoder 1:2		0		Single Dot	osc
Map	Push Encoder 1:3		0		Single Dot	osc
Map	Push Encoder 1:4		0		Single Dot	osc
Map	Push Encoder 1:5		0		Single Dot	osc
Map	Push Encoder 1:6		0		Single Dot	osc
Map	Push Encoder 1:7		0		Single Dot	osc
Map	Push Encoder 1:8		0		Single Dot	osc
Map	Upper Row Button 1		0			osc
Map	Upper Row Button 2		0			osc
Map	Upper Row Button 3		0			osc
Map	Upper Row Button 4		0			osc
Map	Upper Row Button 5		0			osc
Map	Upper Row Button 6		0			osc
Map	Upper Row Button 7		0			osc
Map	Upper Row Button 8		0			osc
Map	Lower Row Button 1		0			osc
Map	Lower Row Button 2		0			osc
Map	Lower Row Button 3		0			osc
Map	Lower Row Button 4		0			osc
Map	Lower Row Button 5		0			osc
Map	Lower Row Button 6		0			osc
Map	Lower Row Button 7		0			osc
Map	Lower Row Button 8		0			osc
Map	Top Row Encoder 1		0			osc
Map	Top Row Encoder 2		0			osc
Map	Top Row Encoder 3		0			osc
Map	Top Row Encoder 4		0			osc
Map	Top Row Encoder 5		0			osc
Map	Top Row Encoder 6		0			osc
Map	Top Row Encoder 7		0			osc
Map	Top Row Encoder 8		0			osc
Map	Middle Row Encoder 1		0			osc
Map	Middle Row Encoder 2		0			osc
Map	Middle Row Encoder 3		0			osc
Map	Middle Row Encoder 4		0			osc
Map	Middle Row Encoder 5		0			osc
Map	Middle Row Encoder 6		0			osc
Map	Middle Row Encoder 7		0			osc
Map	Middle Row Encoder 8		0			osc
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 1		0			osc
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 2		0			osc
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 3		0			osc
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 4		0			osc
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 5		0			osc
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 6		0			osc
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 7		0			osc
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 8		0			osc

Usually though i do something like this:

Keep the push encoders and the upper row buttons on the same function over several pages (in this example 2 pages).
I assign these controls to things like, volume, cutoff, FX levels and thelike.

Top row butten 7 and 8 take care of switching patches. Top row buttons 1-6 can then be used for general stuff.. or if i want to i add them to the pages.

I then layout that groups buttons analogous to the device that i'm mapping and i disable ( using double slashes "//" ) any controls i don't need.

So then when i switch, from the configuration of the buttons alone, together with their set values, i can usually exactly see which button i need.

Code: Select all

Scope	Software Vendor	com.vendorname.productname
//	Control Surface Item	Key	Remotable Item	Scale	Mode

Define Group	Controls	main	osc

Map	Push Encoder 1:1		0		Single Dot
Map	Push Encoder 1:2		0		Single Dot
Map	Push Encoder 1:3		0		Single Dot
Map	Push Encoder 1:4		0		Single Dot
Map	Push Encoder 1:5		0		Single Dot
Map	Push Encoder 1:6		0		Single Dot
Map	Push Encoder 1:7		0		Single Dot
Map	Push Encoder 1:8		0		Bar/Off

Map	Push Encoder 2:1		0		Single Dot
Map	Push Encoder 2:2		0		Single Dot
Map	Push Encoder 2:3		0		Single Dot
Map	Push Encoder 2:4		0		Single Dot
Map	Push Encoder 2:5		0		Single Dot
Map	Push Encoder 2:6		0		Single Dot
Map	Push Encoder 2:7		0		Single Dot
Map	Push Encoder 2:8		0		Bar/Off

Map	Upper Row Button 1		0
Map	Upper Row Button 2		0
Map	Upper Row Button 3		0
Map	Upper Row Button 4		0
Map	Upper Row Button 5		0
Map	Upper Row Button 6		0
Map	Upper Row Button 7		Select Previous Patch
Map	Upper Row Button 8		Select Next Patch

Map	Preset Left Button		Controls=osc			main
Map	Preset Right Button		Controls=osc			main

Map	Lower Row Button 1		0			main
Map	Lower Row Button 2		0			main
Map	Lower Row Button 3		0			main
Map	Lower Row Button 4		0			main
Map	Lower Row Button 5		0			main
Map	Lower Row Button 6		0			main
Map	Lower Row Button 7		0			main
Map	Lower Row Button 8		0			main

Map	Top Row Encoder 1		0			main
Map	Top Row Encoder 2		0			main
Map	Top Row Encoder 3		0			main
Map	Top Row Encoder 4		0			main
Map	Top Row Encoder 5		0			main
Map	Top Row Encoder 6		0			main
Map	Top Row Encoder 7		0			main
Map	Top Row Encoder 8		0			main

Map	Middle Row Encoder 1		0			main
Map	Middle Row Encoder 2		0			main
Map	Middle Row Encoder 3		0			main
Map	Middle Row Encoder 4		0			main
Map	Middle Row Encoder 5		0			main
Map	Middle Row Encoder 6		0			main
Map	Middle Row Encoder 7		0			main
Map	Middle Row Encoder 8		0			main

Map	Bottom Row Encoder 1		0			main
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 2		0			main
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 3		0			main
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 4		0			main
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 5		0			main
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 6		0			main
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 7		0			main
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 8		0			main

Map	Preset Left Button		Controls=main			osc
Map	Preset Right Button		Controls=main			osc

Map	Push Encoder 1:1		0		Single Dot	osc
Map	Push Encoder 1:2		0		Single Dot	osc
Map	Push Encoder 1:3		0		Single Dot	osc
Map	Push Encoder 1:4		0		Single Dot	osc
Map	Push Encoder 1:5		0		Single Dot	osc
Map	Push Encoder 1:6		0		Single Dot	osc
Map	Push Encoder 1:7		0		Single Dot	osc
Map	Push Encoder 1:8		0		Single Dot	osc

Map	Lower Row Button 1		0			osc
Map	Lower Row Button 2		0			osc
Map	Lower Row Button 3		0			osc
Map	Lower Row Button 4		0			osc
Map	Lower Row Button 5		0			osc
Map	Lower Row Button 6		0			osc
Map	Lower Row Button 7		0			osc
Map	Lower Row Button 8		0			osc

Map	Top Row Encoder 1		0			osc
Map	Top Row Encoder 2		0			osc
Map	Top Row Encoder 3		0			osc
Map	Top Row Encoder 4		0			osc
Map	Top Row Encoder 5		0			osc
Map	Top Row Encoder 6		0			osc
Map	Top Row Encoder 7		0			osc
Map	Top Row Encoder 8		0			osc

Map	Middle Row Encoder 1		0			osc
Map	Middle Row Encoder 2		0			osc
Map	Middle Row Encoder 3		0			osc
Map	Middle Row Encoder 4		0			osc
Map	Middle Row Encoder 5		0			osc
Map	Middle Row Encoder 6		0			osc
Map	Middle Row Encoder 7		0			osc
Map	Middle Row Encoder 8		0			osc

Map	Bottom Row Encoder 1		0			osc
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 2		0			osc
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 3		0			osc
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 4		0			osc
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 5		0			osc
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 6		0			osc
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 7		0			osc
Map	Bottom Row Encoder 8		0			osc

Also, when you are mapping you can get a quick overview of what you have mapped under which "page" by enabling "remote override edit mode". Switch "pages" (using the preset buttons) and see which control is mapped.

[jonheal]

What is "remote override edit mode" and how do I enable it?

Never mind. I RTFM.

But I do have another question: What do "SIngle Dot," "Bar" and "Spread" mean?

[normen]

What the BCR displays on its LED ring. Either a dot for the position, a bar for the position or a bar that spreads from the middel (e.g. width knob on the mixer)

[mcatalao]

That's the way the leds will work in order to represent what you're seeing in reason:

Single dot = pan
Bar = VU meters/gain control in reason
Spread = Wiideness meter on the ssl.

[jonheal]

Thanks, folks.

BTW, Normen, I wonder if that drift you experience with the encoders is a byproduct of an acceleration algorithm programmed for the encoders? Do you have your encoders in 14-bit mode?

[normen]

Thanks, folks.

BTW, Normen, I wonder if that drift you experience with the encoders is a byproduct of an acceleration algorithm programmed for the encoders? Do you have your encoders in 14-bit mode?

Idk if its in 14bit mode in Reason but this happens in any mode. Yes, when not hitting the max/min positions its mainly due to the acceleration as I posted above, when moving the rotary quickly not each step is transmitted but a delta value which varies in terms of actual rotation.

[jonheal]

I think I figured out out to put it in 14-bit mode using the Edit features on the box itself. However, as soon as Reason connects to it, the setting seems to be overridden and the encoders are back to 7-bit, with 127 possible values.

I have also noticed another behavior that could lead people to think that it "sometimes works and sometimes doesn't": While connected to Reason, many or all of the buttons along the right side are mapped to Transport controls. You can override this with your own mappings, but if you happen to leave one of them still mapped to a Transport control and then you happen to hit that button, the Transport effectively steals focus away from the device so you BCR no longer affects it until you reset focus.

[jonheal]

I guess I've pretty much talked the BCR2000 to death, so <maybe> this will be my final post on the subject.

Final verdict: I really like it. for a $150 ten-year-old design, it's pretty amazing. It's closest competitor is at least twice the price.

It's not as ugly in person as in photographs. It happens to be almost the exact same color as my Oxygen v3 keyboards, so that was a fortunate little coincidence.

I gave up on 14-bit resolution for the encoders. As it turns out, it really doesn't matter, except maybe in a live situation. Recording a slow sweep through a control, you will hear some stepping while recording, but it is glossed over by Reason's animation smoothing after the fact. And even at crusty old 7-bit, its encoders still have finer grain than the pots on my Oxygen keyboards.

No, it doesn't have a fancy screen telling you what's doing what, so unless you have a really good memory, you'll probably end up printing some cheat sheets or taking peaks at the Remote Control Override Mode as eauhm has mentioned.

[Olivier]

To combat steppyness on filters for example, i wonder if it would work to connect a knob to something that generates a cv signal, then put that signal through a slew limiter an have that signal modulate the filter. This will ofcourse generate some lag too, but I wonder if there's a workable sweetspot.

[mcatalao]

Yeah, now you only need to get 2 BCF2000!