Behringer BCR2000: Good reason controller?

[dustmoses]

I'm looking to get a controller for tweaking synths in Reason. I have keys, pads, some knobs, but the BCR2000 has a whole lot of knobs which I could use.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to get this, anything I should know about/be aware of though?

[Lizard]

I don't own one but they look to be reviewed with high regards in most of the online retailers I see out there. They have been supported by Remote technology since Reason 7 at least. Remote map only covers Reason Native items and generally not RE but you could add to the map to change that if you wanted to learn. I like the endless rotary knobs and a shitload of them. It is a really affordable controller too. The things I don't like is the lack of variety of control type. Most do include at least a few faders in there which is nice in mix mode as they are easier to throw than dials. I like controllers that have a somewhat descriptive LCD panel that give me a indication to what I am controlling. With more knobs you may start to question what knob is controlling what device parameter. If you are looking to be cost conscious about your choice I would say "yes". But if money is not a concern for yo I would look into a few other devices that offer more options.

[Olivier]

Love mine, although some of the encoders need replacing. It's great at what it does, I have made heaps of extra maps for it. I just wish the quality of the parts was a bit better. Mine is about 6 years old now. I'll probably get a new one one of these days.

[mcatalao]

Happy user here. Had to invert the arrangement cause 2 controllers sometimes don't work, other than that it's a great controller.

I use it in conjunction with 2 BCF2000.

[Olivier]

I would pay a multitude of what this unit costs for a larger version with higher quality components and a buildin alphanumerical led displays per knob.. That's how much I like this kind of setup.

[normen]

I would pay a multitude of what this unit costs for a larger version with higher quality components and a buildin alphanumerical led displays per knob.. That's how much I like this kind of setup.

Like a Mackie Control C4?

[Olivier]

I would pay a multitude of what this unit costs for a larger version with higher quality components and a buildin alphanumerical led displays per knob.. That's how much I like this kind of setup.

Like a Mackie Control C4?

I thought the one with the knobs was no longer available? I'm not that interested in faders

[joeyluck]

I have an issue with one of my knobs on my BCF. Seems to be a thing.

If you can be patient, there may be an offering in the X-Touch line with better knobs as found on the X32. In the meantime, the X-Touch Compact actually offers more knobs than the BCF (16 total) and has better faders than the BCF.

[normen]

I thought the one with the knobs was no longer available? I'm not that interested in faders

The C4 is the one with the Knobs and displays. And yes, its discontinued but still widely available on ebay etc. I got mine new just before they discontinued them at a bargain price.

[Data_Shrine]

Everything Behringer that I own (or have owned) has some part not working well or acting funny. My advice would be to check out the alternatives before deciding on what to get.

[joeyluck]

I've had great experience with Behringer products aside from my one knob on my 5 year old BCF. I think think something to also consider is the amount you spend on a controller... when you can own a digital mixer with excellent audio interfacing for the same price as some controllers. Although, I guess the OP is more after knobs only. And I don't know anything like the BCR. There are other knobs-a-plenty controllers, but the ones I'm aware of aren't endless encoders...

[Lizard]

Although, I guess the OP is more after knobs only. And I don't know anything like the BCR. There are other knobs-a-plenty controllers, but the ones I'm aware of aren't endless encoders...

Well having "more" knobs would confuse me more than anything especially when there is no LCD/LED display to indicate which do what and even more so when you start switching through different rack devices. If I were in the OP's shoes I would personally double down on a Nekatr P1 which is just Faders, Knobs and Buttons for less than $300. A very affordable unit. The navigation is easy, all the displays are clearly marked, way more devices mapped, endless encoders.... If Reason was the predominant software to use with a potentially new control device this would be my choice. The BCR2000 may be a good device but not better suited IMO.

[joeyluck]

Well board tape is always an option

I'm not a fan of the P1 due to the lack of motorized faders. I don't see the point. It's counterintuitive. Might as well have knobs in place of them. Also, the dark design makes it easy to get lost in the low light. There are no LEDs around the knobs either...

[Lizard]

Well board tape is always an option

I'm not a fan of the P1 due to the lack of motorized faders. I don't see the point. It's counterintuitive. Might as well have knobs in place of them. Also, the dark design makes it easy to get lost in the low light. There are no LEDs around the knobs either...

I can dig some of your points there my friend. But other than just a small handful of controllers with faders, how many of them actually have motorized faders? I do know there are a couple by Behringer at about $400 and they are the cheap side. Still no LED/LCD display and the only thing it best serves is just a mixer right? If money is not object I would say "yes please". But most people are on a budget and looking for all in one or compliment what they already have. If you are a performer then I would say that dark colors and no led would mean a lot. If you don't perform I can't really see that being a huge fallback. It hasn't ben in my corner but I haven't really made any mixes in the dark lately.

[joeyluck]

Actually the X-Touch series uses the same faders found on the X32 and they are quite nice.

Also, the X-Touch (not X-Touch Compact) includes scribble strips
And plenty of control for controlling your DAW.

[Lizard]

Yeah the X-Touch is Sweet... but $600. Do you know if this is Remote Supported for Reason? Would be nice to have auto faders that worked well on the mixer.

[joeyluck]

Yeah the X-Touch is Sweet... but $600. Do you know if this is Remote Supported for Reason? Would be nice to have auto faders that worked well on the mixer.

It hasn't been released yet. But hopefully based on the support of the B-Control series, it will integrate well. If not, I'm sure somebody will be on it...

$600 is actually a steal for what this offers. Keep in mind that things comparable are about $1100 and up (starting with the Mackie and going into the Avid stuff). Which gets in the price realm of some digital mixers—which IMO I would rather go for in that price range. I think this is a better option than the Mackie Control Pro.

But sorry to get off topic... I know the OP is looking for knobs.
I had asked Behringer about a 'BCR version' in the X-touch line and it sounded like it might be possible... Who knows.
Could you image? The amount of knobs on the BCR with LED indication and scribble strips per knob?

[jonheal]

I've been looking for something with lots of knob encoders. I'm kind of surprised there aren't more options out there. I guess most folks are happy enough to turn knobs with the mouse but I would prefer a more tactile experience. For $150, I guess I don't care if the the BCR2000 breaks after a few years.

The encoders appear to be continuously turning, which is a HUGE plus. I think fixed range encoders are next to useless with software synthesizers because the instant you touch them, whatever value your virtual knob was set to in a preset is whacked.

It's kind of ugly, but still, for $150 ...

[normen]

The encoders appear to be continuously turning, which is a HUGE plus. I think fixed range encoders are next to useless with software synthesizers because the instant you touch them, whatever value your virtual knob was set to in a preset is whacked.

Personally I don't think thats necessarily true. I prefer fixed pots for tweaking e.g. resonance / cutoff because they always have the same value on a specific position. With continuous encoders the more you tweak the more the positions drift off. For the problem you mention theres "catch" functions where you only change the value when you put the knob to the position the virtual knob is at.

For having knobs that you want to change e.g. during mix encoders are great (EQs, volume, compressors, even synth parameters) but for a *performance* I'd always prefer actual pots. And with a performance you'll never tweak random knobs anyway. You'd work on one synth and change its parameters so you don't have that issue of values being "off" as you describe. Or you map the various knobs you need for the performance in advance.

[jonheal]

The encoders appear to be continuously turning, which is a HUGE plus. I think fixed range encoders are next to useless with software synthesizers because the instant you touch them, whatever value your virtual knob was set to in a preset is whacked.

Personally I don't think thats necessarily true. I prefer fixed pots for tweaking e.g. resonance / cutoff because they always have the same value on a specific position. With continuous encoders the more you tweak the more the positions drift off. For the problem you mention theres "catch" functions where you only change the value when you put the knob to the position the virtual knob is at.

For having knobs that you want to change e.g. during mix encoders are great (EQs, volume, compressors, even synth parameters) but for a *performance* I'd always prefer actual pots. And with a performance you'll never tweak random knobs anyway. You'd work on one synth and change its parameters so you don't have that issue of values being "off" as you describe. Or you map the various knobs you need for the performance in advance.

As you say, I can see now that with the native Reason devices, the fixed pots on my Oxygen keyboard do not effect the virtual knobs until they reach the position the virtual knob is set at. However with Re devices, this is not the case. The instant I move a knob on the keyboard, the mapped virtual knob jumps to it "0" position. How do I implement this "catch" function with Re knobs and sliders?

[jonheal]

If as Normen says, fixed pots are ultimately more useful, maybe this is a good economical option:

Novation Launch Control XL - US $149

32 encoders (including 8 sliders) plus it can serve up 8 different templates for the 32 encoders.

[Olivier]

Personally I don't think thats necessarily true. I prefer fixed pots for tweaking e.g. resonance / cutoff because they always have the same value on a specific position. With continuous encoders the more you tweak the more the positions drift off. For the problem you mention theres "catch" functions where you only change the value when you put the knob to the position the virtual knob is at.

With the BCR I've not experienced a feeling that my encoders positions are off. Their position is indicated (roughly) around the encoder itself. Or maybe i dont understand what you mean by saying "the positions drift off".

[jonheal]

Personally I don't think thats necessarily true. I prefer fixed pots for tweaking e.g. resonance / cutoff because they always have the same value on a specific position. With continuous encoders the more you tweak the more the positions drift off. For the problem you mention theres "catch" functions where you only change the value when you put the knob to the position the virtual knob is at.

With the BCR I've not experienced a feeling that my encoders positions are off. Their position is indicated (roughly) around the encoder itself. Or maybe i dont understand what you mean by saying "the positions drift off".

Now I am leaning towards the BCR2000 again. I see in Reason's preferences that it is a recognized device, so that's nice. The Launch Control XL isn't (yet). As for remembering which knob does what, the BRC2000 has those white strips below each row of knobs. I wouldn't want to scribble right on the box, but it is an area you could lay a strip of tape over.

I'm kind of running out of desk space, and the Launch Control XL is very compact, but ... I don't know ... Decisions, decisions ...

[normen]

With the BCR I've not experienced a feeling that my encoders positions are off. Their position is indicated (roughly) around the encoder itself. Or maybe i dont understand what you mean by saying "the positions drift off".

If you were to put a small white dot on the encoder itself and kept moving it, even without changing the assignment the white dot would not always yield the same value if it was put at 12 o'clock. This instantly happens when you move the encoder a bit more when you reached the max value of the virtual knob but also happens when you move a lot "in between" the max and min values. With a pot the position is always the same, just like on a real synth.

[Olivier]

With the BCR I've not experienced a feeling that my encoders positions are off. Their position is indicated (roughly) around the encoder itself. Or maybe i dont understand what you mean by saying "the positions drift off".

If you were to put a small white dot on the encoder itself and kept moving it, even without changing the assignment the white dot would not always yield the same value if it was put at 12 o'clock. This instantly happens when you move the encoder a bit more when you reached the max value of the virtual knob but also happens when you move a lot "in between" the max and min values. With a pot the position is always the same, just like on a real synth.

This ofcourse is true. But in case of the bcr, theres this small ring of led's indicating an approximate position, and no little white dot on the encoder. In my case i have mapped loads of devices to it in a layout that is analogous to the actual device. This, together with the led position indication means I rarely grab the wrong encoder. Also, moving the dial on screen means the led on the encoder moves with it. Really very intuitive:)