I dun goofed and bought Ableton Live 9 :D

[phasys]

Man what a breath of fresh air! I can't believe how clunky and cludgy that stupid Reason sequencer feels now. Should have done this years ago.

[-008']

And they even have their own forum!!!

Take Scotty with you.

[SoulState]

And they even have their own forum!!! Take Scotty with you.

Now that would be a breath of fresh air

[Exowildebeest]

Ableton's sequencer is what I hate about it - fiddly automation, ugh.

But to each their own.

Be sure to check out the Max for Live stuff, especially Granulator. Now THAT's what I miss in Reason.

[psychasm]

And they even have their own forum!!! Take Scotty with you.

Just reading some these comments , I am having a helluva good laugh. I hardly venture to this side of the forum but will do so more often just to feel better than what I do already. Laughter is ,they say the best medicine.

[phasys]

And they even have their own forum!!! Take Scotty with you.

[Exowildebeest]

Also, be sure to check out the included impulse responses.

You can use them in Reason

[joeyluck]

.... also Abelton has discounted the upgrade price.
novel idea. 

Ahh must mean they are hurting, yeah?

Better luck on the next release?

They must be pissing off the folks who paid full price to upgrade, huh?

That sucks. Sucks to be a loyal Ableton user right now.

Sad to see them suffering. Never liked the software though.

[joeyluck]

[phasys]

But still its not like these products need to be opposed to each other is it?
LOL, @ this duaslitic thinking. Humans are funny.

Nah, I'll be using Reason as an instrument rack. Great for that.

[Wook]

Man what a breath of fresh air! I can't believe how clunky and cludgy that stupid Reason sequencer feels now. Should have done this years ago.

Indeed. Sequencer is my favourite part of Ableton. It's super intuitive and automation is fantastic. As much as I love Reason, I'm not blind to see where it's shortcomings are.

[Exowildebeest]

Man what a breath of fresh air! I can't believe how clunky and cludgy that stupid Reason sequencer feels now. Should have done this years ago.

Indeed. Sequencer is my favourite part of Ableton. It's super intuitive and automation is fantastic. As much as I love Reason, I'm not blind to see where it's shortcomings are.

Fantastic?! The destructive clip-overlapping, no safe way of dragging stuff around, no automation clips to drag around between tracks (Reason does this even if the automation paramaters are incompatble, and adjusts them automatically if you wish with the "adjust alien clips to lane" command!), fiddly automation dots that never behave like I expect - Jesus, it's all in my nightmares.

I still use Ableton for simple purposes that I export for use in Reason, and I love Robert Henke's work and what Ableton did and does for (electronic) (live) music, but building a full track in it is a nightmare for me.

[Exowildebeest]

That said, my own frustrations aside, whatever works for you. I find it hard to imagine liking sequencing in Ableton though.

[zeebot]

Man what a breath of fresh air! I can't believe how clunky and cludgy that stupid Reason sequencer feels now. Should have done this years ago.

Indeed. Sequencer is my favourite part of Ableton. It's super intuitive and automation is fantastic. As much as I love Reason, I'm not blind to see where it's shortcomings are.

Yeah, from the vids I've watched on ableton that is one thing it excels at

[The Intrancer]

I ain't going anywhere, well not just yet anyway...

I tried Abelton years ago (2011), installed version 8 SE which came with my Focusrite 6 interface. I found it a pretty sterile gray experience, some nice interaction concepts in chaining effects but very crash prone. I tried Abelton when it first came out with the same feelings about it.

Did phasys look at other software before choosing Abelton, like SO3 which was just released with a shed load of new features ?

http://www.reasontalk.com/post/presonus ... 1287614927

[joeyluck]

.... also Abelton has discounted the upgrade price.
novel idea. 

Ahh must mean they are hurting, yeah?

Better luck on the next release?

They must be pissing off the folks who paid full price to upgrade, huh?

That sucks. Sucks to be a loyal Ableton user right now.

Sad to see them suffering. Never liked the software though.

 
You ask me a question, then post "shut it down" ?  :s0959:  
I dont think anyone needs to get pissed off that the upgrade price was reduced about 1 year after the software was. Besides this is business and if people want to get pissed off, they will and thats totally on them. More like they are pissed off already and ready to use ANY excuse to not be happy and all over what, what is likely a VERY inconsequential inconvience.

Just having a little bit of fun. I suppose a mic drop would have been more appropriate.

Not aimed at you. I just find it funny that when Propellerhead does something (anything), there are folks here that form crazy theories, say that Propellerhead has gone mad, Propellerhead must be hurting business-wise, think that Propellerhead is being unfair, etc etc etc. But when another company does something, it's completely justified. My joke was just aimed at those people.

[Wook]

Man what a breath of fresh air! I can't believe how clunky and cludgy that stupid Reason sequencer feels now. Should have done this years ago.

Indeed. Sequencer is my favourite part of Ableton. It's super intuitive and automation is fantastic. As much as I love Reason, I'm not blind to see where it's shortcomings are.

Fantastic?! The destructive clip-overlapping, no safe way of dragging stuff around, no automation clips to drag around between tracks (Reason does this even if the automation paramaters are incompatble, and adjusts them automatically if you wish with the "adjust alien clips to lane" command!), fiddly automation dots that never behave like I expect - Jesus, it's all in my nightmares.

I still use Ableton for simple purposes that I export for use in Reason, and I love Robert Henke's work and what Ableton did and does for (electronic) (live) music, but building a full track in it is a nightmare for me.

I see your points. Maybe I should have been more precise and say that it's piano roll works wonderful. For me at least. Zooming is excellent, painting notes, automatic grid adjustment when zooming and similar make my day. I wouldn't mind if Propellerheads copy those things. God knows that many took things from them.

I also like how simple it is just to select a parameter that you want to automate and do it straight in the sequencer. I really dislike how I have to create an automation clip in Reason. It's so fiddly. That thing with highlighting just a portion of automation/audio/midi and copying it on the fly is also nice. I don't know, it has more positive than negative sides for me. With Reason, it's the opposite. 

I'm talking only about piano roll and some sequencer things. Everything else, Reason is king.

[Exowildebeest]

Oh yeah I forgot to complain about the zooming - no mousewheel zooming in Ableton :frown:

Though I get your appreciation of the piano roll. I miss shift+arrow up for raising notes an octave in Reason, for example.

On the automation clips we may simply differ - I love how it is in Reason, and creating a clip is just alt clicking or double clicking. Knowing those clips are totally non-destructive facilitates experimentation and dragging it around easily. Just perfect imo.

Another edit: in Reason, you can now also copy on the fly with selecting and Ctrl+D. This was standard in Ableton already, now also in Reason, something I'm happy with for a change

[Jmax]

Both programs are brilliant in there own right.  There is no sense knocking either one.

I started with reason and it will always be my favorite.  I love the simplicity of it and how easy it is to  jump in there and start making music.  I have huge love for the redrum and kong and this makes everything easy when creating your own drum parts. The automation in Reason is simply brilliant and very easy to work with.  Also, there are so many knobs to tweak and play around with.
Reason is also very pretty to look at.  Everytime I load it up, my eyes thank me for a second. Not to mention all the CV connections at the back and hookups that are possible.  You really become an studio engineer using reason.  

Ableton, I started using a few years ago.  It took me a good year to get into it as it is much different from Reason. I love that everything feels very compact in Ableton and you have everything you need.
Where Ableton has the edge on Reason is the sequencer mouse editing I believe.  It is incredibly easy to get around in the sequencer window.  Click and hold to zoom, and you can literally zoom to the micron.  Its very easy to edit samples and also to copy and past portions of them zoomed in very far. If they could implement this in Reason I'd be very happy. The automation in Ableton is very nice and allows for curves I believe. 

If I had to choose one it would be Reason hands down.  But Ableton has its place on my desktop right beside the Reason icon.  Their good pals and appreciate each other. Then there's Studio one 3.  She takes care of all my piano recordings.

[gak]

I was a HUGE ableton user. But got fed up with how poorly it records audio, how poor the arrangement section is, as mentioned the automation is...poor. And that forum? Good luck with that! I also got sick of not being able to quantize/groove multiple sections at once. Yeah, you can do it but it's a terrible PITA.

PDC issues are a big one (I don't know if they fixed it or not) and right after I bought push they basically stopped updating/improving it. Then there was the whole hacker thing. And the metronome isn't very good (funny how I can actually record things in time/close to in time so much better in reason )

Then there is M4L which is the most unusable, crashy, waste of time. I counted about 80 crashes with M4L at one point. Terrible (and no I don't care about the 7 people that can use it w/o problems ) 

Does reason have a few things that could use changing. Duh! Does live do some things I wish reason would do? Duh again, but that ship sailed for me. I'll take uber stability personally. Just wait, like every other host in the world (and I mean all of them) you'll get deeper into it and find a bunch of WTF stuff yourself.

[Jmax]

I was a HUGE ableton user. But got fed up with how poorly it records audio, how poor the arrangement section is, as mentioned the automation is...poor. And that forum? Good luck with that! I also got sick of not being able to quantize/groove multiple sections at once. Yeah, you can do it but it's a terrible PITA.

PDC issues are a big one (I don't know if they fixed it or not) and right after I bought push they basically stopped updating/improving it. Then there was the whole hacker thing. And the metronome isn't very good (funny how I can actually record things in time/close to in time so much better in reason )

Then there is M4L which is the most unusable, crashy, waste of time. I counted about 80 crashes with M4L at one point. Terrible (and no I don't care about the 7 people that can use it w/o problems ) 

Does reason have a few things that could use changing. Duh! Does live do some things I wish reason would do? Duh again, but that ship sailed for me. I'll take uber stability personally. Just wait, like every other host in the world (and I mean all of them) you'll get deeper into it and find a bunch of WTF stuff yourself.

I find the workflow to be very good in Ableton. Especially making electronic music. The zoom in function is second to none and love how you can just do it with the click of the mouse. I wish it was so in reason.
I don't see any problems with the automation although I need to test it out more. One thing might be there are many different VST's so not all functions can be automated. But so far I haven't had problems. As for recording audio it seems fine but I guess your saying the sound quality isn't there?

[gak]

no no no, nothing about audio quality, sorry. I meant it's painful to record audio in live vs reason.

For example, you can't record takes in live. Add in that there is really nothing in the way of audio editing and bam, it's just painful for me (being a guitar and bass player) I personally feel the time stretch is better in reason, but that is subjective so don't want to throw fuel on that flame.

BTW, I tried many audio editors with live and it's really difficult trying to work destructively with audio. I'd rather have it at the DAW level.

[Leighbeater]

Ableton Push is the real deal wish Reason had something as good

[MDTerps2015]

Ableton Push is the real deal wish Reason had something as good

Nektar P1

[gak]

But the P1 doesn't have the pads.

Look I don't want to sound like I'm bashing live because it's a fine product, but my nektar impact and reason integrate FAR better than push/live ever did. Seriously.