What the... Avid's Pro Tools 12 has "cloud collaboration" too...?

[Yorick]

What the... Avid's Pro Tools 12 has "cloud collaboration" too...?

I wonder if they have the same licensing deal as Prop's discover?

[-008']

The avid collab stuff looks much more serious and thought out.

For starters, you are actually collaborating "on the same session, at the same time" in their words.

On the licensing thing, it seems they have a much better angle of actually monetizing people work:

Store and share their work with the world: The Avid Content Marketplace provides a new channel for artists to monetize their work by sharing it with a wide network of potential purchasers – with all licensing and rights agreements worked out through automatic templates.

[joeyluck]

I'll admit, it does look good.  

Is that a Google Helpout type of approach?  
Speaking of—Any Reason users out there selling their services on Google Helpouts?

[Yorick]

The avid collab stuff looks much more serious and thought out. For starters, you are actually collaborating "on the same session, at the same time" in their words. On the licensing thing, it seems they have a much better angle of actually monetizing people work:

Store and share their work with the world: The Avid Content Marketplace provides a new channel for artists to monetize their work by sharing it with a wide network of potential purchasers – with all licensing and rights agreements worked out through automatic templates.

A MUCH better arrangement.  :s0230: :t2018:

[joeyluck]

Well, Discover is in beta after all...
Be sure to send them some suggestions and ideas you get from this  

[Rice]

Very interesting indeed

[dreampolice]

Didn't cubase add this in version 7 a few years ago? http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/vs ... start.html

Everyone is pissed about Discover it seems, but collaboration is the next frontier in music software and having take being part of the party props has made a fantastic play here.

[Rice]

Didn't cubase add this in version 7 a few years ago? http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/vs ... start.html

Everyone is pissed about Discover it seems, but collaboration is the next frontier in music software and having take being part of the party props has made a fantastic play here.

Funny you said that...I just sent the link to my buddy and he reminded me about the one that Cubase provides!

[ryanharlin]

I thought nobody needed cloud collaboration because we have FreeSound.org, right? 

(runs away)

[Gaja]

I think this is an entirely different concept than take. Since you're in the same session in real time. I wonder how that pans out with medium internet connection...
Anyway, the main difference to discover is that te ProTools collab service tries to monetize the artists, whoch migt turn out to be quite chaotic.
I'm not very deep in the music industry, but I keep wonderig: is there a market for this? I mean studio drummers and musicians? Can they live from that? What genre has this kind of money? Certainly Rihanna etc don't have or need real drums or instruments in their recordings. Bands like foo fighters don't need to hire session drummers. So where does this actually happen?
Anyway discover still seems to me to make more sense, because it focuses more on spontaneous creation, which I can't say of ProTools, where you have to be careful not to fuck everything up (I once destroyed three days of Foley recording, because I made a copy of the session folder on an external hard drive). With take I can find a tempo, lay down my idea, with drop to prop I can load it into Reason, where a session is created with the correct tempo settings. In Reason I can find out that I think it sucks and then give it over to the rest of the pack via discover. Either someone likes it or not. Fits my workflow much better.

[Yonatan]

ProTools is a "pro" application, just as Avid video production. They are Pro standard, so they do things that those have most use for, as well as the serious hobbyist enthusiasts that are aspiring to be on a pro level.

That do not mean you become pro by using it or even that you make any good music out of the platform. You can use the tools in your kitchen and a cheap guitar and a basic recording app to make really creative ideas and interesting things. The imagination is the limit. That is where Reason comes in, just that it is far more complex too do whatever.  

Reason is not a pro application per se, and has never been. It´s a lovely creative tool and it can be used by a pro and serious hobbyists, to achieve amazing results. Most pro studios have some version of Reason in their setup gear. Because it is so nice to use. 
Reason is more about letting the serious hobbyist to have a lot of headroom for taking their ideas all the way, within that same DAW. relying on music and not struggle with all tech-mech that surrounds the industry.   

The problem with Discover as announced is'nt that it is not a pro service, but mainly that it is not even aimed at the serious aspiring hobbyists and enthusiasts. It´s too lame to make the enthusiast getting inspired. Hopefully that will adjust and become a more mature creative music community. It do not have to have all the pro requirements, but it have to have a pro possibility and sound. If this do not change, both Apple and Avid and all the rest are targeting on serious hobbyists that aspire to become all that they can be. Propellerhead's lower themselves all too much, they are more potent than recent aims. They could step it up a notch or two. App-integration is cool, but it won't bring a sharing and creative revolution laying a synth lead to another anonym users drum-loop. That is not the future. We want to get to know others, see their expressions and choose with whom we like to work with.        

I do not even own ProTools, but their video shows in what kind of line you have to think if you want to draw serious hobbyists as well as pros´s to use it, and therefore spread the word. Prop can do their own version, but the main ingredient should be what is mentioned in the Pro Tools video, but in a propellerhead way, with a little extra twist. But do not lose touch with the aspiring enthusiasts, because that is the backbone. If that is secured and taken good care of, then I do not mind if the kids may have a little candy to play with instead of their gaming apps.

 

[mcatalao]

I sent them my ideas. 
Can you imagine they already talked about projects, visibility and big review to the EULA 1 month ago?? 

Anyway... 

I'm not using discover until the EULA changes. I'll keep collaborating through the internet with DropBox or my nas cloud.

Ah, and yes the Avid Market or what they call it is great!

[Yorick]

Didn't cubase add this in version 7 a few years ago? http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/vs ... start.html

Everyone is pissed about Discover it seems, but collaboration is the next frontier in music software and having take being part of the party props has made a fantastic play here.

From what I'm reading people seem most pissed about the Licensing agreement. I know I'm in that camp.

[Yorick]

Didn't cubase add this in version 7 a few years ago? http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/vs ... start.html

Everyone is pissed about Discover it seems, but collaboration is the next frontier in music software and having take being part of the party props has made a fantastic play here.

Funny you said that...I just sent the link to my buddy and he reminded me about the one that Cubase provides!

Interesting. I have Cubase 6.5 but never upgraded to 7 so missed that.
And I have Pro Tools 11, but don't really see a need to upgrade to 12, as 11 is awesome and does all I need.
And I collaborate online all the time. Via dropbox and stems. I don't understand either this sudden idea that collaborating with folks out of town is new or unique or suddenly made possible by these things.

Dropbox, Nicecast (to monitor the session) stems. It doesn't matter what DAW your collaborator is using.
I've worked with guys in Sydney, Tasmania, Singapore, LA, Detroit, Hamburg, Berlin, Asheville, SanFran, all without discover, or Avid everywhere or anything else. Why is this suddenly a "thing" now?

[sequence]

This is cool and ideal,

the sad thing is that it seems they(props) are following the "dumb things down for the masses" approach in order to have a broader audience...

I guess adding real vst could broaden their audience to a more interesting market if money is what they are after.

Only time will tell

cheers!

ProTools is a "pro" application, just as Avid video production. They are Pro standard, so they do things that those have most use for, as well as the serious hobbyist enthusiasts that are aspiring to be on a pro level.

That do not mean you become pro by using it or even that you make any good music out of the platform. You can use the tools in your kitchen and a cheap guitar and a basic recording app to make really creative ideas and interesting things. The imagination is the limit. That is where Reason comes in, just that it is far more complex too do whatever.  

Reason is not a pro application per se, and has never been. It´s a lovely creative tool and it can be used by a pro and serious hobbyists, to achieve amazing results. Most pro studios have some version of Reason in their setup gear. Because it is so nice to use. 
Reason is more about letting the serious hobbyist to have a lot of headroom for taking their ideas all the way, within that same DAW. relying on music and not struggle with all tech-mech that surrounds the industry.   

The problem with Discover as announced is'nt that it is not a pro service, but mainly that it is not even aimed at the serious aspiring hobbyists and enthusiasts. It´s too lame to make the enthusiast getting inspired. Hopefully that will adjust and become a more mature creative music community. It do not have to have all the pro requirements, but it have to have a pro possibility and sound. If this do not change, both Apple and Avid and all the rest are targeting on serious hobbyists that aspire to become all that they can be. Propellerhead's lower themselves all too much, they are more potent than recent aims. They could step it up a notch or two. App-integration is cool, but it won't bring a sharing and creative revolution laying a synth lead to another anonym users drum-loop. That is not the future. We want to get to know others, see their expressions and choose with whom we like to work with.        

I do not even own ProTools, but their video shows in what kind of line you have to think if you want to draw serious hobbyists as well as pros´s to use it, and therefore spread the word. Prop can do their own version, but the main ingredient should be what is mentioned in the Pro Tools video, but in a propellerhead way, with a little extra twist. But do not lose touch with the aspiring enthusiasts, because that is the backbone. If that is secured and taken good care of, then I do not mind if the kids may have a little candy to play with instead of their gaming apps.

 

[davidvilla]

Well, Discover is in beta after all...
 

It's typical Props though - releasing something completely basic and unfinished, where they string you along for years adding things in painfully slooooooooooow.

[KEVMOVE02]

So let me get this right: people who admittedly don't subscribe to or have ever used cloud collaboration are making conclusions about the viability of these services? That's neither fair or helpful. Perhaps (for those who really want to know) we could provide a critique of the service after working through a few collaborations, then provide feedback. "Typical Props, releasing something completely basic and unfinished, where they string you along for years adding things in painfully slooooooooooow." What does that even mean? 

[Yorick]

So let me get this right: people who admittedly don't subscribe to or have ever used cloud collaboration are making conclusions about the viability of these services? That's neither fair or helpful. Perhaps (for those who really want to know) we could provide a critique of the service after working through a few collaborations, then provide feedback.

I posted links to what I've uploaded and shared in Discover. And posted the license agreement. And I collaborate with others via dropbox/nicecast and stems as I mentioned. What are you talking about?

[KEVMOVE02]

So let me get this right: people who admittedly don't subscribe to or have ever used cloud collaboration are making conclusions about the viability of these services? That's neither fair or helpful. Perhaps (for those who really want to know) we could provide a critique of the service after working through a few collaborations, then provide feedback.

I posted links to what I've uploaded and shared in Discover. And posted the license agreement. And I collaborate with others via dropbox/nicecast and stems as I mentioned. What are you talking about?

I'm talking about responses from people who admit to not using any service or even owning the software making commentary on the quality of said products and services. You clearly don't fall into this camp, so the comment didn't apply to you. 

[ClassickHitz]

Well, Discover is in beta after all...
 

It's typical Props though - releasing something completely basic and unfinished, where they string you along for years adding things in painfully slooooooooooow.

This is mainly because Props knows there is an audience out there very limited in their understanding of what is considered standard or professional and they exploit it to the fullest. 

Purposely omitting or delaying features has been the business model of Propellerhead for years now. They are proficient in their tactics because they can disguise it under the heading of uniqueness knowing there are those that will buy into it hook line and sinker.

That is not to say that Reason doesn't or shouldn't have it's own individuality and uniqueness as it does and of course indeed should. But to have Props nickel and dime it's users (both old and new) by adding features with a snail's pace is getting pretty transparent at this point. 

Example: Figure and Take both should have had Reason integration from day one. This is something that could have been done immediately. However, Props wanted to ensure a high R8 sales count by adding this so-called update/new feature in version 8.1

This half assed collaboration beta experiment called Discovery would have definitely been met with the same mixed sentiment especially after the latest press release of PT 12, so they closed the Reason forum as to not taint the waters with doubts of criticism.  

What a preemptive strike!
 

[Gorilla Texas]

The avid collab stuff looks much more serious and thought out.

For starters, you are actually collaborating "on the same session, at the same time" in their words.

On the licensing thing, it seems they have a much better angle of actually monetizing people work:

Store and share their work with the world: The Avid Content Marketplace provides a new channel for artists to monetize their work by sharing it with a wide network of potential purchasers – with all licensing and rights agreements worked out through automatic templates.

Agreed, pro tools version makes take and figure look like dookie lol.

[KEVMOVE02]

Well, Discover is in beta after all...
 

It's typical Props though - releasing something completely basic and unfinished, where they string you along for years adding things in painfully slooooooooooow.

This is mainly because Props knows there is an audience out there very limited in their understanding of what is considered standard or professional and they exploit it to the fullest. 

Purposely omitting or delaying features has been the business model of Propellerhead for years now. They are proficient in their tactics because they can disguise it under the heading of uniqueness knowing there are those that will buy into it hook line and sinker.

That is not to say that Reason doesn't or shouldn't have it's own individuality and uniqueness as it does and of course indeed should. But to have Props nickel and dime it's users (both old and new) by adding features with a snail's pace is getting pretty transparent at this point. 

Example: Figure and Take both should have had Reason integration from day one. This is something that could have been done immediately. However, Props wanted to ensure a high R8 sales count by adding this so-called update/new feature in version 8.1

This half assed collaboration beta experiment called Discovery would have definitely been met with the same mixed sentiment especially after the latest press release of PT 12, so they closed the Reason forum as to not taint the waters with doubts of criticism.  

What a preemptive strike!
 

Which audience are you a part of?

[Theo.M]

When i saw the PT idea i thought this is how it should have been for reason.

The Avid method is like ohmstudio from what i can tell.. real time and live.. And you keep all your rights.

I think Steinberg released something like this also a year or so ago but I may be mistaken.

Funnily enough, Apple don't with Logic.. and you would think if anyone could they could do it successfully.

[hydlide]

 
I am seeing a trend here

[dreampolice]

Real time collaboration > Dropbox