Anybody read to jump to the new MacBook Pro ?

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
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Jac459
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04 Feb 2023

I don't use anymore my 15inch Intel Razer because of the lack of power. I use a MacBook Air M1 but the screen is small and I am always flirting with the limit of CPU, Ram and drive (I forbid myself any sample based instrument because of memory pressure).

I think I will plunge for a 14inch M2 pro with 32gb 1tb... I don't think the max makes sense. And from 8gb to 32gb, I guess it is ok... Even like that, it is quite an investment... :-(. 16inch could be better but I like transportability and 16inch is again additional cost...
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

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pongasoft
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04 Feb 2023

The only "catch" with the new MacBook Pro is that it will run with the latest macOS version (Ventura). So you need to make sure that all your software (including Reason Studios) and hardware is compatible with Ventura.

Jac459
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04 Feb 2023

I am on Ventura and the RRP is working well (as well as my other plugins). I read also that there was potential issues but didn't met one...
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

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crimsonwarlock
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04 Feb 2023

pongasoft wrote:
04 Feb 2023
The only "catch" with the new MacBook Pro is that it will run with the latest macOS version (Ventura). So you need to make sure that all your software (including Reason Studios) and hardware is compatible with Ventura.
I'm always stumped that people invest in a platform that basically every so many years invalidates all the software you are using. And subsequently blame all the software companies for not keeping up.
-------
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.

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jam-s
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04 Feb 2023

crimsonwarlock wrote:
04 Feb 2023

I'm always stumped that people invest in a platform that basically every so many years invalidates all the software you are using. And subsequently blame all the software companies for not keeping up.
It's a religion and discussing those here is not allowed. ;) (Ok, it might just be a cult and then we're safe :?: )

Jac459
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04 Feb 2023

jam-s wrote:
04 Feb 2023

It's a religion and discussing those here is not allowed. ;) (Ok, it might just be a cult and then we're safe :?: )
Actually on my case I may be the most opposite to that.

My thinking towards technical purchases is "I don't give a damn f#### about the brand".

I use android and I would change the second I think something is better.
I used Windows for 30 years and I am changing because they are too far away.

Apple fans try to say that it is all about integration.
I find it extremely laughable when they can't even use the same cable to charge their computer and their phone. Seriously. They talk about integration on very weird scenarios (most of them are actually working on android/Windows by the way). But the most important, "charging! use case" Is even not working, it is a joke.

That being said. Macbooks rule.
Period.
The difference of power with wintel laptops is just to big.
And macos works. It is nowhere as intuitive and pretty as my applefan friends were telling me but it works.

And compatibility is way better than Windows.

I left Windows with unresolved scaling issues on my plugins. Rob papen fantastic vsts are not working on modern resolution computers. Izotope iris neither. It is not acceptable.

With my mac m1, I never had any issue of anything. Even Rosetta is working well. I don't care if something is not native if it is already so much faster than in windows.

So basically I will never commit to an ecosystem, but my personal preference is to navigate ecosystems with open mind to get the best.
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

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crimsonwarlock
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05 Feb 2023

Jac459 wrote:
04 Feb 2023
And compatibility is way better than Windows.
No, it is not. I can still run 20-year-old windows software on Win 10/11. That is compatibility. As I said, Apple invalidates all previous software every so many years. That amounts to 'compatibility be dammed'.

Just be honest here, all the wining about M1 compatibility is precisely the opposite of system compatibility. If Apple made their new system 'compatible', then all existing software should run without any problems (and without any additional bridging) on the new hardware.
-------
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.

Jac459
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05 Feb 2023

crimsonwarlock wrote:
05 Feb 2023

No, it is not. I can still run 20-year-old windows software on Win 10/11. That is compatibility. As I said, Apple invalidates all previous software every so many years. That amounts to 'compatibility be dammed'.

Just be honest here, all the wining about M1 compatibility is precisely the opposite of system compatibility. If Apple made their new system 'compatible', then all existing software should run without any problems (and without any additional bridging) on the new hardware.
Well, it seems you forgot the "Windows RT" episode. It was all bells and whistles, but nothing was running on it except Excel and Words. I was having a love and hate relationship with my windows RT tablet. Loved the potential, hated the reality.

The switch to M1 from Apple, which is actually the switch from CISC to RISC ship architecture, is a very necessary one that Intel has been slept on for years. Keeping things totally compatible in such a move is almost impossible (and Microsoft didn't even tried !). But yet, the move was a necessity. Microsoft knew it and tried it 13 years ago. It was a smart move but not with the right partners. RISC is way more efficient than CISC in almost all scenarios, my university hardware teacher was telling us that in 199....9! It is even more true today.

So while I will certainly not defend Apple (and really, I don't care about any of these companies), on the particular M1 move, it was a smart and necessary move with a huge, huge benefit from the end-user.

You are talking about compatibility issues, but what are they ? I bought my M1 in Jan 2022 and Reason 12 was already working on it faster than on my slightly older but 4 times more expansive Razer Laptop. I have never had any issue.
In this forum we have debated at length the issue with high dpi of reason 12 but actually all the DAWs have the same problem in Windows, You can't use numerous VSTs because of that. I am not talking about software of 20 years ago, I am talking of recent software that matters.
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

Heater
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05 Feb 2023

I'm sticking to my 8Gb MacBook Air M1 on Ventura. I've got multiple DAWs and they all run fine.
I don't use large sample libraries so 8Gb is fine for me.

Jac459
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05 Feb 2023

Heater wrote:
05 Feb 2023
I'm sticking to my 8Gb MacBook Air M1 on Ventura. I've got multiple DAWs and they all run fine.
I don't use large sample libraries so 8Gb is fine for me.
The air is incredibly pleasant to work with. I have 2 issues though, the screen is a bit small for my shitty eyes... and the cpu/memory load start to be a bit high since I discovered myself a passion for spectral synthesis....
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

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crimsonwarlock
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05 Feb 2023

Jac459 wrote:
05 Feb 2023
You are talking about compatibility issues, but what are they ?
Seriously? This forum is full of complaints (from Apple users) about Reason not yet having M1 compatibility. Have you been sleeping under a rock or something? :lol:

Also, Apple has done this more times in the past. It is not about the necessity of the M1 architecture. It is about the fact that Apple makes such a move with complete disregard of the existing software ecosystem. And they are known for that, regardless of what arguments you bring.

I'm not an Apple user, so I don't have a dog in this fight. As I said, I'm just stumped by the blinded disregard of certain facts. I'm neither pro-windows, besides my DAW all my computers run Linux. I'll leave it at that.
-------
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.

Jac459
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05 Feb 2023

crimsonwarlock wrote:
05 Feb 2023
Seriously? This forum is full of complaints (from Apple users) about Reason not yet having M1 compatibility. Have you been sleeping under a rock or something? :lol:

Also, Apple has done this more times in the past. It is not about the necessity of the M1 architecture. It is about the fact that Apple makes such a move with complete disregard of the existing software ecosystem. And they are known for that, regardless of what arguments you bring.

I'm not an Apple user, so I don't have a dog in this fight. As I said, I'm just stumped by the blinded disregard of certain facts. I'm neither pro-windows, besides my DAW all my computers run Linux. I'll leave it at that.
Well, I will pass on the mildly impolite tone or your post.
On the fact that x86 software needs to have a layer of virtualisation to run on RISC M1, yes thank you very much, I am very well aware. As per, is it creating an issue like "the software is not working", no, it doesn't. Period.
You don't use Apple so you may not know. But actually Reason 12 works beautifully on the M1. There is no problem of compatibility. Even if it needs a virtualisation layer. That doesn't means that nobody on earth has bugs with this configuration. That means that statistically, that's a minority and certainly because of particularities of their setup.

Then you didn't answer on the Windows RT for example, are you aware of what it is? If not you should read about it, you would certainly understand better the migration path constraints to go out of x86.

By the way, the constraints are the same for Linux.Programs built for Linux x86 need to be converted to run on Risc (like Raspberry Pi for example).

Finally, I created this post not to be trolled about the good or the bad of any Operating System. Frankly, I work in IT and I understand very very well the difference of each (and I don't need validation on it). If you want to bring the discussion on that aspect I fully respect that (and fully don't care also), so I invite you to create a dedicated topic on it.
On my side, I am only looking for return of experience on the use of MacBook Pro 14/16 M1/M2 and Pro/Max, that's all.
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

PhillipOrdonez
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05 Feb 2023

I've never used an apple product in my life and now considering investing in a Mac studio or now the M2 Mac mini. Debating whether it is better to have a very powerful processor with 32g ram vs an even more powerful processor with 2 more cores but 16g ram that costs less than the first option 🤔

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crimsonwarlock
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05 Feb 2023

crimsonwarlock wrote:
05 Feb 2023
I'll leave it at that.
-------
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.

Jac459
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05 Feb 2023

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
05 Feb 2023
I've never used an apple product in my life and now considering investing in a Mac studio or now the M2 Mac mini. Debating whether it is better to have a very powerful processor with 32g ram vs an even more powerful processor with 2 more cores but 16g ram that costs less than the first option 🤔
I have the same thinking actually.

I guess you are talking about the 2 versions of the M2 Pro. The second has 2 additional cores but they are "efficiency" cores, not "performance" cores, so I would think the difference of raw power is very marginal.

Then in terms of ram, the saying that the unified memory is in fact very efficient is ... true. I have 8gb on my current m1 air and I don't have any issue to run very complex projects, with 45 tracks, neutron 4 with dynamic Eq and compressions in most of the tracks as well as Ozone 10 at the end (and many instances of the RRP). I guess the SSD is very useful here. Yet, the memory pressure is high and the air is often swaping on SSD so it may not be good on the long run.

So my feeling is that 16gb, M2 Pro with 10 cores is the best. Other options will have diminishing returns... BUT, this is always the same story, when you have convinced yourself to go there, it is very tempting to pay a bit more to be even more future-proof...

As for the max version, except if you plan graphics or gaming, I would think it has no impact... Sure the memory bandwidth is faster but I don't think it matters for us...
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

PhillipOrdonez
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05 Feb 2023

The difference is huge according to these:

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp ... Hz&id=5189

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp ... Hz&id=5186

As you can see, the 10 core one is only a little better than the M1 max while the 12 core is a lot better.

Jac459
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05 Feb 2023

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
05 Feb 2023
The difference is huge according to these:

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp ... Hz&id=5189

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp ... Hz&id=5186

As you can see, the 10 core one is only a little better than the M1 max while the 12 core is a lot better.
Damn !

Indeed, I was not expecting that !

It is 73Mops/s vs 58Mops/s for Floating point calculation. If I am not wrong that's critical in audio processing.

Thank you mate for the heads-up... Now I have an excuse to buy the 12 core :-).
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

PhillipOrdonez
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05 Feb 2023

Cheers!

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