Nektar Panorama P6 - still relevant for a while? Better suggestion?

[jayhosking]

Internal\Global\Encoder Curve you can set it to Fast, (however under standard I still can do it with one rotation see note)

Note the encoders have like an velocity curve on them, so if you move the knob slowly it will take a lot of turns, move it really really quick you get the same result (takes a lot of turns), there is a midway turning speed that will accelerate the knob and you can do it with one twist. (setting it to fast may help).

Also under the global is the velocity curve for the keyboard, I did change mine from the standard for my playing style...

This is brilliant. Thank you so much!

[JiggeryPokery]

Personally I detest the keys and pads, and the one motor fader on the P6,
- but I appreciate the love here on RTalk for it. P6's reason integration is unmatched.

As near day-one owner of the P6, so... 2012/2013 I think? I've slowly grown to dislike it more and more. I think early on I convinced myself I liked it, having paid a fair number of woolongs. I wonder if that's not the case for a lot people, scared to admit it's not actually very good because it is one the most expensive USB controllers and there's become a big deal made about Remote map publishing for it.

I suspect if more of us had had a chance to sit down at, and play, numerous controllers side by side before purchase, I wonder how many people would still go for the Panorama's based on its actual playability, rather than, as in my case, gambling on it via untested online purchases based on its Reason integration credentials.

• From the curious design choice of black-on-black to controls, making them damn near invisible in normal lighting (official response: use coloured elastic bands or stickers! )

• And both the white, but especially, the black keys sticking up over the control panel is pretty ugly

• To the cheap and nasty LCD display that flickers when a parameter is adjusted,

• The stiff drum pads that are all but unplayable

• The keys turning yellow and making it look like it's being stored uncovered in the basement smoking room of an investment bank.

• And a keybed that is extremely noisy, but it's especially aggravating on key release. It has a loud "thunk", even with very gentle playing. Do a glissando? Good luck hearing what you've actually played over the physical sounds of the key chunking away on release and the amount of noise created by the lateral key movement.

• The key action is medium weight; so it's better for pianos than it is for synths or organ - heck, it's terrible for organs because it's near impossible to squabble (cf my Autopilot demo video for B3T - jeez that was painful to play, and there was me thinking my wrist strength was pretty good ).

It sold itself based on its Reason integration. OK, that is pretty good, but otherwise it's not a good product.

And tbh, with the control labels on the display, I still find it quite hard to use it via Remote, because those labels are still very disassociated from the actual parameter, even more so in devices with multiple pages of controls.

In an ideal world, maybe someone will develop a controller with small OLED displays for each control that would display the parameter, and partner that with a decent synth-weight keybed.

[QVprod]

Personally I detest the keys and pads, and the one motor fader on the P6,
- but I appreciate the love here on RTalk for it. P6's reason integration is unmatched.

As near day-one owner of the P6, so... 2012/2013 I think? I've slowly grown to dislike it more and more. I think early on I convinced myself I liked it, having paid a fair number of woolongs. I wonder if that's not the case for a lot people, scared to admit it's not actually very good because it is one the most expensive USB controllers and there's become a big deal made about Remote map publishing for it.

I suspect if more of us had had a chance to sit down at, and play, numerous controllers side by side before purchase, I wonder how many people would still go for the Panorama's based on its actual playability, rather than, as in my case, gambling on it via untested online purchases based on its Reason integration credentials.

• From the curious design choice of black-on-black to controls, making them damn near invisible in normal lighting (official response: use coloured elastic bands or stickers! )

• And both the white, but especially, the black keys sticking up over the control panel is pretty ugly

• To the cheap and nasty LCD display that flickers when a parameter is adjusted,

• The stiff drum pads that are all but unplayable

• The keys turning yellow and making it look like it's being stored uncovered in the basement smoking room of an investment bank.

• And a keybed that is extremely noisy, but it's especially aggravating on key release. It has a loud "thunk", even with very gentle playing. Do a glissando? Good luck hearing what you've actually played over the physical sounds of the key chunking away on release and the amount of noise created by the lateral key movement.

• The key action is medium weight; so it's better for pianos than it is for synths or organ - heck, it's terrible for organs because it's near impossible to squabble (cf my Autopilot demo video for B3T - jeez that was painful to play, and there was me thinking my wrist strength was pretty good ).

It sold itself based on its Reason integration. OK, that is pretty good, but otherwise it's not a good product.

And tbh, with the control labels on the display, I still find it quite hard to use it via Remote, because those labels are still very disassociated from the actual parameter, even more so in devices with multiple pages of controls.

In an ideal world, maybe someone will develop a controller with small OLED displays for each control that would display the parameter, and partner that with a decent synth-weight keybed.

Interesting perspective. I'll admit I don't really use the Reason integration as much as I thought I would. With Mainstage on the other hand... it's the best thing ever. My lack of Reason integration use has more to do with me preferring the mouse over menu diving. Motor fader comes in handy though making a quick adjustment to a selected channel. The LCD on mine still works perfectly fine. I like the keys, though agreed not the best for synth stuff, and the pads aren't great but I use them all the time. The pads on My Keylab 88 are far worse. My keys are also still white, I'm surprised to hear about the yellowing. Bought mine in 2014 and I gig with it quite a bit. It's not perfect but I don't know of a better keyboard controller on the market. The keybeds on most controllers are just terrible.

[kefkekeyser]

• To the cheap and nasty LCD display that flickers when a parameter is adjusted,

• The stiff drum pads that are all but unplayable

• The keys turning yellow and making it look like it's being stored uncovered in the basement smoking room of an investment bank.

Oh, so my Nektar Panaroma P6 is not the only one with keys that turned yellow.

Have to agree: the drum pads are crap and the LCD flickers.

But the Reason integration is great. I wonder If there are other midi controllers with better keys (that don't turn yellow) and the same kind of plug and play/great integration with Reason.

[arqui]

solution = Nektar P1 + other

[Carly(Poohbear)]

• To the cheap and nasty LCD display that flickers when a parameter is adjusted,

• The stiff drum pads that are all but unplayable

• The keys turning yellow and making it look like it's being stored uncovered in the basement smoking room of an investment bank.

Oh, so my Nektar Panaroma P6 is not the only one with keys that turned yellow.

Have to agree: the drum pads are crap and the LCD flickers.

But the Reason integration is great. I wonder If there are other midi controllers with better keys (that don't turn yellow) and the same kind of plug and play/great integration with Reason.

I've had my P4 a number of years now, no yellow keys, no flickering screen and my pads work fine (will admit I don't use them much, I have always tapped out my patterns using the keys). Maybe they changed their production process at some point?

The other month I thought if my P4 broke I would get a P1+LX (or another keyboard ) as it would be cheaper..

[JiggeryPokery]

Oh, so my Nektar Panaroma P6 is not the only one with keys that turned yellow.

Have to agree: the drum pads are crap and the LCD flickers.

But the Reason integration is great. I wonder If there are other midi controllers with better keys (that don't turn yellow) and the same kind of plug and play/great integration with Reason.

I've had my P4 a number of years now, no yellow keys, no flickering screen and my pads work fine (will admit I don't use them much, I have always tapped out my pads using the keys). Maybe they changed their production process at some point?

Possibly, or maybe they source parts from more than one supplier. Either way, the result is someone gets a lower quality product. Any way you shake it, you can't deny that is bad.

The Nektar drum pads have all the velocity sensitivity of a concrete slab laid over another concrete slab.

And here's the colour difference, and you can clearly see how yellow the keys have gone compared to not only the white case of the P6, but also the white case and the white keys of the Blofeld above, and the Blofeld is a fair bit older (2010 I think?). This is a clearly a poor production issue.

IMG_4726_Nektar Yellow.jpg (489.24 KiB) Viewed 6407 times

I know that's only a cosmetic thing, but smoker's lung yellow is an awful shade, and it's one more thing on top of the other issues. Other people who love it and don't have issues, that's cool, continue to enjoy it!

For me, long term it's not been good, and anyone looking for a new controller I suggest going in store and actually trying it, rather than taking recommendations for it at face value, which is what I'll do with next controller purchase. I could live with the yellowing keys if I loved the rest of it, but personally, the playability annoys me every time I boot the thing up.

[jayhosking]

Yeesh, JP, that's an ugly colour.

This has been a really informative thread. My early experiences have been fun on the tweaking with knobs side (mainly the "don't have to set anything up for it to just work" side), and I'm looking forward to mixing with it, but otherwise I'm totally in agreement with a lot of what JP said, from the black-on-black to the distance between screen and knobs, etc. Not sure how long it will be my go-to, but it's certainly a step up from where I was.

Thanks everyone for so many perspectives on this! It's why I love this community. I hope to hear more!

[kefkekeyser]

They should make a Panaroma P1 Pro with 9 full size motorized faders (like the motorized fader on the P6) and LED rings around the controllers (like you have on the Novation SL MkII). This would be a lot more expensive than the normal P1 (and probably need a power supply), but I would buy that (and sell my P6 so I can buy another midi keyboard with no controllers but better keys that the P6).

[wendylou]

I bought my Panorama P6 when they were introduced in 2012 and the keys have really yellowed. Because they are still white on the unexposed sides, it's clear that this is due to ultraviolet energy from sunlight, which is well known for causing certain plastics to yellow. I had the keyboard near a sunny window. The case remains pure white, so it's really due to what kind of plastics are used.

I contacted Nektartech several times about this yellowing, and Tim simply said they were looking into it. After all these years, obviously, they have no intention of doing anything about the Panorama units that are undergoing this degradation.

Another thing that is happening is the special rubbery film coating that was applied to the black plastic rotary wheels, knobs and slider handles is breaking down, as well. You can see this on the mod and pitchbend wheels in my photo. This is similar to the thin film coating that was applied to Propellerhead's Balance audio interface that gives shiny plastic a tactile, rubberized, satin-like feeling.

Clearly my Panorama P6 is aging. I'd replace it with a pristine new one except for the fact that I dislike the clunky & loud keyboard action. If Nektar ever addresses these issues, I'll reconsider, because I like the Reason integration. With all due respect to the company, it's like "porch light's on but nobody's home" regarding their responsiveness to customer needs, at times.

IMG_4546-web.jpg (96.57 KiB) Viewed 6367 times

[O1B]

JP, you are a man among men for that post. Like I thought y'all were.

Proud ITSY owner here.

Personally I detest the keys and pads, and the one motor fader on the P6,
- but I appreciate the love here on RTalk for it. P6's reason integration is unmatched.

As near day-one owner of the P6, so... 2012/2013 I think? I've slowly grown to dislike it more and more. I think early on I convinced myself I liked it, having paid a fair number of woolongs. I wonder if that's not the case for a lot people, scared to admit it's not actually very good because it is one the most expensive USB controllers and there's become a big deal made about Remote map publishing for it.

I suspect if more of us had had a chance to sit down at, and play, numerous controllers side by side before purchase, I wonder how many people would still go for the Panorama's based on its actual playability, rather than, as in my case, gambling on it via untested online purchases based on its Reason integration credentials.
...

[Svaha]

I started as a guitar player and moved into production. One thing that has always surprised me is the build quality of midi controllers. Guitar players stress over compound radius necks and have flame wars over Les Pauls or Gibsons. Players will pay an extra $2-4k for the 'perfect feel'

For the most part, the midi controller scene is just fake plastic keys, a couple of cheap pads (that glow of course), and as an afterthought some level of integration with the host DAW. I know the Push is the first step in a different direction, but it's kind of a radical jump for someone who started on a piano. I realize a mouse is a powerful tool in production, but it surprises me that there aren't more options geared towards musicians.

[QVprod]

I started as a guitar player and moved into production. One thing that has always surprised me is the build quality of midi controllers. Guitar players stress over compound radius necks and have flame wars over Les Pauls or Gibsons. Players will pay an extra $2-4k for the 'perfect feel'

For the most part, the midi controller scene is just fake plastic keys, a couple of cheap pads (that glow of course), and as an afterthought some level of integration with the host DAW. I know the Push is the first step in a different direction, but it's kind of a radical jump for someone who started on a piano. I realize a mouse is a powerful tool in production, but it surprises me that there aren't more options geared towards musicians.

Major difference with keys is most people in the midi controller market aren't actual keyboard players. Some can't play at all (which boggles my mind). So the standard isn't high as a lot of people don't know the difference. Guitar on the other hand is a harder instrument to fake. In addition to that, the market focuses on cheap low cost midi solutions so integration always takes a backseat with that in mind. Panorama is the best DAW control you'll get on a keyboard controller. They're the first to really go that deep. Before that, there was M-Audio's Hypercontrol and Novation Automap which was ok. Everything else that exists with advanced control is for it's own plugins (like the Arturia stuff, Akai advance, and NI Komplete Kontrol) and barely does much beyond basics for DAW control.

[JiggeryPokery]

I started as a guitar player and moved into production. One thing that has always surprised me is the build quality of midi controllers. Guitar players stress over compound radius necks and have flame wars over Les Pauls or Gibsons. Players will pay an extra $2-4k for the 'perfect feel'

For the most part, the midi controller scene is just fake plastic keys

Another way of saying "fake plastic keys" would be "plastic keys".

I mean, if by suggesting that midi controller keys are "fake" because they're plastic then you're implicitly suggesting that piano keys are the only keys that aren't fake because they're wood, not plastic. But then considering modern pianos have keys laminated in plastic, that would make piano keys fake too, right? Because they're sure as shit not still laminated in virgin-fresh white rhino horn!

Piano keys are heavy, but keyboards before pianos, the organs and harpichords, are fairly light. The Hammond organs and the transistor organs, which I believe pre-date USB MIDI controllers by a couple of years, are also very light keybeds, far lighter than what I would class as a "medium-weight" Nektar, and actually lighter than some synth-weight, such as my Blofeld or my old PCR 800 controllers, or my favourite X5D, which I loved to bits through the early 00s.

Those who want a [piano-]weighted 88-note MIDI controller, replete with hammer-action wooden keys and "fake plastic" ivory, they are available for a price, but most people using DAWs to make electronic music forms really don't need to play piano in that manner, ever, even when writing for piano. Besides, most home composers have no room for a piano, and probably don't have room for an 88-note controller either, hence the cheap low-end predominates. I've never tried any of the Fatar Studiologic range myself, so I can't comment on their playability as piano-replacements. But I've noted the prices

And comparing MIDI controller keyboards to Les Pauls is rather disingenuous too, when plenty of non-pro guitars are quite happy with Epiphones. And that's the kind of level I think we're refering to here.

Paying the extra for the Nektar P6, after getting through 3 Edirols—which I otherwise liked apart from their lack of longetivity—in 10 years, I wrongly assumed the build quality would be higher. So in that sense, you're not wrong: there is an issue with the build quality of MIDI controllers, right through into the mid-range, because let's not forget, the Panorama is a £400+ product. The keys shouldn't be clunking away like a pneumatic drill or turning yellow: those are problems that were solved decades ago. We were hoodwinked.

[Svaha]

Well, true. I should probably qualify 'fake plastic.' A Nord Electro has plastic keys, a Fatar keybed to be precise, but it feels like a real instrument. The encoders are solid and precise. Realistically, in a smokeless studio, it could last 20 years with minor repairs. That said, it's a costly and clunky midi controller: it has no aftertouch and no real DAW integration.

Rumor has it the Kontrol uses a Fatar keybed. I have no idea, banging on it at Guitar Center it felt cheap. I doubt I would get more than 2 or 3 years of use before it glitches out. I would have preferred they take the light guide off and spend that money on more durable and playable buttons, knobs, and keys.

[O1B]

... I don't think waiting another 10 days is gonna do it....

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PanoramaP6

Arriving Soon
We expect more from Nektar in just a few days. Reserve yours now, risk-free.

[TChandler]

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to say if you are unfortunate enough to own a Panorama unit with a keybed that has degraded in color, please get in contact with our support team and we'll help you out.

[O1B]

Now, that's pretty awesome! My P1's fine but I'd get in touch, you guys.

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to say if you are unfortunate enough to own a Panorama unit with a keybed that has degraded in color, please get in contact with our support team and we'll help you out.

[Carly(Poohbear)]

I love my P6 but Nektar is incredibly slow with updates. I wasnt a fan of that last one they did that provided "generic support" for REs they haven't gotten around to yet. I wish theyd develop some software that would allow us to make our own menus and mapping for REs we own without having to piss around with text editing.

I agree with those who mentioned the shitty pads.... they definitely suck but are useful of course for devices like Dr REX and Redrum pattern selection.

My P6 is going strong but if it ever crapped out I'd probably get a P1 and an Akai MPK249 to replace it.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

Do forget to check this thread out. Nektar Mappings

New dropbox location for mappings https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sberq7vvyfit ... T4sra?dl=0


PoohBear

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Recent Music made with Reason
(Electronic) Solar Dance
(Electronic) Into The Night
(Upbeat) The Players Took Me There Made in Reason 9 with heavy use of the players
(Electronic) 5 Steps (Video added) Updated
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My Soundcloud Page ....... Nektar Mappings
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[O1B]

Sweetwater and B&H Photo now both have the P6 in stock - for all who are interested.

Nice weekend, all.

[JiggeryPokery]

An update.

The lovely guys at Nektar, whom I have always found to be a really helpful bunch, btw, kindly sent me a new, current Panorama for review in exchange for my original 2013 purchas model.

Cosmetically, the outside looks the same as the old one, except for the shiny, new Colgate-white keys.

After a couple of days I'm certainly preferring the adjusted keybed of the current P6. Comparing both the original 2013 and the current one side by side, it's noticeably different. It's not as spongy on key depression or as high-frequency clacky on release, the latter seeming more on par with what I expect a modern synth key release to sound like. And it's definitely an easier play; a LOT less fatiguing. While it's not as lightly synth weight as my faithful old X5D I had in the late 90s, it's lighter than my Blofeld, which I've also always felt was overly spongy and fatiguing (and the old P6 was worse than that).

Keybeds and playing styles are such personal things; no doubt there are some who prefer the heavier feel of original keybed who might be disappointed by the current approach.

So, there are definitely positives in the current generation of Panorama for people whose style encompasses lots of [synth] solos or organs; it's more natural, fluid, much less fatiguing. Space-reduced pianists looking primarily for a compact controller for sampled pianos might now find it a little less expressive than before, however. But for mixed use, synth today, piano tomorrow, organ til Thursday, it seems like a much better balance - it's not overly light, but it's not spongy, and it's a fair bit quieter.

I will restate one view I stated from earlier in this thread, I'd no longer buy a new controller without trying it first. Ultimately, for most of us it's our primary communication tool for putting notes into a computer, whether you like it soft or hard. Sadly, these days finding keyboards to actually try is fucking hard, even in London; it all went to pot after Turnkey went down. And if you do have a local music shop, these days the only keyboards it will have are Yamahas. For the woolongs we spend, it might be worth the extra trying to get to a decent stockist and making the journey, to find the keybeds that you feel most comfortable with first, then worry about control integration with your DAW.

That said, any thoughts I've had about a new controller has been punted to the long grass for now, so thanks again to Tim @ Nektar for the opportunity to check out the latest version.

[jayhosking]

That's really awesome support. Great to hear it.

I've had this thing for a little while now, and have noticed myself really taking advantage of it for both mixing and instrument performance-tweaking (e.g. riding the cutoff knob on the filter). Not sure why, but I find myself adjusting the velocity sensitivity for specific instruments, but it's an easy tweak and I get better results overall. For my space, it's the right size and shape, and things feel good. Some of the previous criticisms remain—having black knobs on a black surface making mixing in low-light not very much fun, for instance—but overall I'm very satisfied with the purchase.

[demt]

I'm another nectar P1 guy with an akai mini .
going to do sum techno to get s u'm feel for the combo last time I tried it wasn't up to fine detail in a hurry and may need to create a set specifically to make it shine.

[O1B]

Good to hear success stories. Yours and JPs.

That's really awesome support. Great to hear it.

I've had this thing for a little while now, and have noticed myself really taking advantage of it for both mixing and instrument performance ...overall I'm very satisfied with the purchase.

[arqui]

An update.

The lovely guys at Nektar, whom I have always found to be a really helpful bunch, btw, kindly sent me a new, current Panorama for review in exchange for my original 2013 purchas model.

Cosmetically, the outside looks the same as the old one, except for the shiny, new Colgate-white keys.

After a couple of days I'm certainly preferring the adjusted keybed of the current P6. Comparing both the original 2013 and the current one side by side, it's noticeably different. It's not as spongy on key depression or as high-frequency clacky on release, the latter seeming more on par with what I expect a modern synth key release to sound like. And it's definitely an easier play; a LOT less fatiguing. While it's not as lightly synth weight as my faithful old X5D I had in the late 90s, it's lighter than my Blofeld, which I've also always felt was overly spongy and fatiguing (and the old P6 was worse than that).

Keybeds and playing styles are such personal things; no doubt there are some who prefer the heavier feel of original keybed who might be disappointed by the current approach.

So, there are definitely positives in the current generation of Panorama for people whose style encompasses lots of [synth] solos or organs; it's more natural, fluid, much less fatiguing. Space-reduced pianists looking primarily for a compact controller for sampled pianos might now find it a little less expressive than before, however. But for mixed use, synth today, piano tomorrow, organ til Thursday, it seems like a much better balance - it's not overly light, but it's not spongy, and it's a fair bit quieter.

I will restate one view I stated from earlier in this thread, I'd no longer buy a new controller without trying it first. Ultimately, for most of us it's our primary communication tool for putting notes into a computer, whether you like it soft or hard. Sadly, these days finding keyboards to actually try is fucking hard, even in London; it all went to pot after Turnkey went down. And if you do have a local music shop, these days the only keyboards it will have are Yamahas. For the woolongs we spend, it might be worth the extra trying to get to a decent stockist and making the journey, to find the keybeds that you feel most comfortable with first, then worry about control integration with your DAW.

That said, any thoughts I've had about a new controller has been punted to the long grass for now, so thanks again to Tim @ Nektar for the opportunity to check out the latest version.

lucky for you, I'm still with my Neñtar P6 with the pads that shoot themselves ...