Mixing on Consoles vs DAWs w/ JC Concato

[pjeudy]

We compare the workflows, functions and sound of our brand new SSL Duality Delta vs Logic Pro X and how to get the most out of hands-on mixing. Subscribe :: ttp://ow.ly/Pnh6m

[selig]

Damn, who mixed the audio for this mixing tutorial? Turned it up to hear the VO and the music logo (@ around 0:28) just about took my ears off!!!

[pjeudy]

I know...LOL...The irony right?

[CharlyCharlzz]

I never was able to do a mix in a daw that was near a mastered mix , I can use a hardware mixer and mix well my Computer track along with synths and other stuff but was never able to make any proper mix in a DAW .
I am used since I am a kid to look at clipping and lissen to distortion to do my mix , I only had a hardware mixer of the worst kind and used it 3 years maybe and it sounded great but I tryed in Reason for many years to make a nice mix all in Reason and it never was great .
maximizers , limiters and compression is not for me , I just can't work with them a lissen to sound the right way or something ....
been trying so long that I dont even do beats anymore because I can't buy a mixer these days and I rather play with my Volcas insted .
the worst is that I got the mixing RIG 1 and will upgrade to RIG 2 but what will I do with it ? I know I will compress the crap out evrything using FET and maybe use dynamite and MAximizer ozone but I know that I will sound muddy and all so insted of keeping doing it and being told I am a troll I rather let it there and move on to something else , I love sound design so that is my only use of Reason but I think I am done learning that now .

[ambeant]

I never was able to do a mix in a daw that was near a mastered mix , I can use a hardware mixer and mix well my Computer track along with synths and other stuff but was never able to make any proper mix in a DAW .
I am used since I am a kid to look at clipping and lissen to distortion to do my mix , I only had a hardware mixer of the worst kind and used it 3 years maybe and it sounded great but I tryed in Reason for many years to make a nice mix all in Reason and it never was great .
maximizers , limiters and compression is not for me , I just can't work with them a lissen to sound the right way or something ....
been trying so long that I dont even do beats anymore because I can't buy a mixer these days and I rather play with my Volcas insted .
the worst is that I got the mixing RIG 1 and will upgrade to RIG 2 but what will I do with it ? I know I will compress the crap out evrything using FET and maybe use dynamite and MAximizer ozone but I know that I will sound muddy and all so insted of keeping doing it and being told I am a troll I rather let it there and move on to something else , I love sound design so that is my only use of Reason but I think I am done learning that now .

I agree, which explains why most successful productions are mixed and mastered on hardware. Digital is suppose to represent the analog world but sometimes it falls short in some DAWs

[Dante]

I never was able to do a mix in a daw that was near a mastered mix , I can use a hardware mixer and mix well my Computer track along with synths and other stuff but was never able to make any proper mix in a DAW .
I am used since I am a kid to look at clipping and lissen to distortion to do my mix , I only had a hardware mixer of the worst kind and used it 3 years maybe and it sounded great but I tryed in Reason for many years to make a nice mix all in Reason and it never was great .
maximizers , limiters and compression is not for me , I just can't work with them a lissen to sound the right way or something ....
been trying so long that I dont even do beats anymore because I can't buy a mixer these days and I rather play with my Volcas insted .
the worst is that I got the mixing RIG 1 and will upgrade to RIG 2 but what will I do with it ? I know I will compress the crap out evrything using FET and maybe use dynamite and MAximizer ozone but I know that I will sound muddy and all so insted of keeping doing it and being told I am a troll I rather let it there and move on to something else , I love sound design so that is my only use of Reason but I think I am done learning that now .

Subscribe to this guy's blog and read it every day : By the time I got onto it (The Recording revolution) I found I was already using some of the techniques, nevertheless, he inspired me and it was good to know I was on the right track already, and he has given me some refinements.

http://therecordingrevolution.com/tag/graham-cochrane/

Above all, I think he would say - and I agree - its not about Analog vs Digital. Its about practice and technique.

[mcatalao]

I never was able to do a mix in a daw that was near a mastered mix , I can use a hardware mixer and mix well my Computer track along with synths and other stuff but was never able to make any proper mix in a DAW .
I am used since I am a kid to look at clipping and lissen to distortion to do my mix , I only had a hardware mixer of the worst kind and used it 3 years maybe and it sounded great but I tryed in Reason for many years to make a nice mix all in Reason and it never was great .
maximizers , limiters and compression is not for me , I just can't work with them a lissen to sound the right way or something ....
been trying so long that I dont even do beats anymore because I can't buy a mixer these days and I rather play with my Volcas insted .
the worst is that I got the mixing RIG 1 and will upgrade to RIG 2 but what will I do with it ? I know I will compress the crap out evrything using FET and maybe use dynamite and MAximizer ozone but I know that I will sound muddy and all so insted of keeping doing it and being told I am a troll I rather let it there and move on to something else , I love sound design so that is my only use of Reason but I think I am done learning that now .

The mixer in a DAW is the most pure, untainted thing you can have this days, working on top of your audio. An analogue console, even the BEST analogue console induces noise, distortion and so on. Maybe some apreciate that, but there's a good amount of stuff going on that you don't control there. Additionally on analogue, connections, gain staging, multiple processings, and so on, are tasks that are way more complicated to achieve (unless you use a digital mixer, that in essence is the same as a DAW's mixer - a digital mixer is an integrated Controller+DAW mixing section+processing algorithms in a shinny beautiful box).

But if you allow me an opinion, if you cannot make a decent mix in a Daw, then I'm afraid there's something you are doing that limits you, or on the other hand, something either in your input or output chain, or in your workflow (wich should regarding mixing and in essence be similar to whatever you do in an analogue console) that limits the sound of your mixes.

Maybe one of the problems is that you're already overcompressing stuff. IMHO, the most important steps in a mix, Gain staging and Balancing (including, panning/instrument Positioning) are highly disregarded by a lot of people, that dwelve too much on audio processing but forget to look to balancing, positioning, or the quality of the stuff getting in the DAW itself. Again... no offense, just an opinion, and fwiw.

[mcatalao]

Subscribe to this guy's blog and read it every day : By the time I got onto it (The Recording revolution) I found I was already using some of the techniques, nevertheless, he inspired me and it was good to know I was on the right track already, and he has given me some refinements.

http://therecordingrevolution.com/tag/graham-cochrane/

Above all, I think he would say - and I agree - its not about Analog vs Digital. Its about practice and technique.

Man... I really think that Graham is a well intended guy (And i agree whit that quote) but he is not one of my favorite sources around... IMHO he oversimplify's some stuff, over complicates others, and sometimes misses the point on stuff (like the "doing a record in a caffé, with reason as a new app and mixing with headphones... :/ ). In that particular case, we digress on some ideas. For me a new daw is not a source of inspiration for making music, and a coffee shop is good - at most - to write some lyrics. Maybe the problem is me, i don't know. :/

Anyway... I felt my greatest jumps in terms of audio productin, mixing and mastering, happened with 3 books that i bought and i carry along for the years:
- Mixing secrets for the small studio by Mike Senior.
Its a general mixing book focused mainly on DAWS, plugins, technique, but mostly directed for musicians and small studio owners. But it also has a great section about Monitoring, acoustics, and so on. Explains everything from the beginning to the end, so if you have a new topic, no background knowledge is needed. His writing is great, Mike explains stuff like if he was talking to a friend or a student in a classroom, or an audience of an article. Not too technical, but not too paternalistic.
- Mastering Audio by Bob Katz. Man, this is the Audio HOLY GRAIL, IMVHO. I still have an old edition, but Bob might already have done some changes due to new formats like Mp3, audio streaming and so on. I say this because in the formats area, it was too directed to CD. But things changed. Nonetheless, i have to see if he already edited it, as he's such a knowledged guy and it's really great to read it. And it is not just a book on audio theory and Mastering. Its a book on Mastering whatever it related to audio, in the sence of Mastering being really understanding how audio works. So its a great book not only for people who want to work in Mastering, but want to make better recordings, and better mixes.
- Professional Microphone Techniques - This one is a great one on mic placement, touching some theory about the mic types, the way they work, mic pre-amps, etc. If would be nice if they re-edited this with mic alternatives, because in the last 10 years, a lot of cheap and good quality options got out into the market. But stuff from electrical principles (pressure->energy diferencial, condensers vs dynamic mics, or what is phantom power and why tube mics need an additional power source) to the different mic images (cardioid, 8 figure, etc) to placement by source of instrument, and so on!

Then participating in an audio forum where some good people gave me a hand, not only explaining stuff but kindly and constructively critiquing my work, also helped to review what i learned, and helped gaining confidence.

But most of all... Tagging on to Audio and Music people and trying to learn as much as possible from them (i have a great deal of friends that are musicians and audio engineers), being active as a musician, arranger, and mixing not only my own stuff but work for other people, in other genres and outside my comfort zone, and focusing in a DAW that just makes sense and has a workflow that i like (in my case Reason).

[selig]

A few years back I was able to re-mix a song on my friends SSL Duality that I had previously mixed in Pro Tools. As someone who was "raised" on SSLs since the early 80s, I was right at home of course.

What I found was interesting: On hardware I can work faster to get a mix up and running, but finishing it is slower (and I didn't get as good a mix in the end IMO). On software, it seems like it takes a little longer to get started (even with my hardware ICON controller), but in the end I get a mix I'm MUCH happier with. Conclusion: DAW mixing is the way to go for me (which is good because I don't have access to a Duality-!

Also, possibly coincidentally, one of the first ITB mixes (a rough mix at that) I ever did ended up on a Juno winning project, with all other mixes by Kevin Killen - not too shabby. It was that experience back in the late 1990s that proved to me ITB mixes could stand shoulder to shoulder to other mixes without calling attention to themselves in any way. FWIW, my ITB rough mix ended up on the record because it beat Kevin's - again, not too shabby…

[CharlyCharlzz]

I really think it is only because I like my levels just under distortion that I like mixing with hardwares , I would not need a top mixer but a stereo canal with volumes and EQ does the trick for me .