Italy Anti-Rave special law... 434 bis...

[Re8et]

So it passed a law with the new right-wing government that is aimed at curbing Rave parties recently, the 434 bis.
It says that if you party in a public park, or abandoned place, with more than 50 people, everyone can be fined from 1.000 to 10.000 eurs. Everything can be confiscated (Cars, Audio systems, etc). And, everyone, not just the organizers, can face from 1 to 6 years of jail.

France and Italy organized Street parties in all major cities this weekend, blocking traffic, playing music.
Naples and Bologna had between 5.000 to 10.000 people in the street. Turin, Rome and Florence about 2.000 each.
The government and newspapers were completely silent on the issue. Only Euronews had a brief coverage of the massive protests.

We feel completely battered. I know similar repressions had been going on in other parts of Europe as well.
Berlin last ten years has seen a dramatic change in the landscape.

When Covid lockdown measures started, there was a Rainbow gathering. in Tuscany. peaceful people.
They were threated like criminals. Cars and goods confiscated. They were up in the mountains, in forest.
But those measures were in place for everybody. Not just ravers.

I wanted to share this as I don't know if others are aware of this. I know every one on this lonely planet had various issues with the Covid lockdowns. From South America to East Asia and beyond.
What are your thoughts? Why are we facing globally a resurgence of moral values, particularly Christian...
Sorry, the video it's only in Italian... France has no coverage as far as I know...

https://it.euronews.com/2022/12/18/prot ... -anti-rave

[BRIGGS]

Leadership is failing, on a global level. They know they will eventually fall from power, so the they tighten their grip, in the meantime.

Evil can only go so far, before it is dealt with.

[MuttReason]

The UK government passed a similar law in the 1990s, designed to shut down illegal raves. It was bad law from the outset, and ultimately it failed. The parties still happened, and the music didn’t stop. Lot of great acts emerged from that era, too. Reality is the police don’t have the capacity to arrest everyone, they cannot be everywhere all the time, and the courts would fall apart if there were many thousands of people appearing before them every month on social disorder charges. It’s all just stupid political populist shit, designed to look tough but garbage in real life. Absolutely right to protest about it and force moderate politicians to come off the fence and challenge this stuff, but long term… it’ll die off anyway, it is stupid and practically unenforceable.

[PhillipOrdonez]

Fascists sure don't like it when others have fun...

[bxbrkrz]

So it passed a law with the new right-wing government that is aimed at curbing Rave parties recently, the 434 bis.
It says that if you party in a public park, or abandoned place, with more than 50 people, everyone can be fined from 1.000 to 10.000 eurs. Everything can be confiscated (Cars, Audio systems, etc). And, everyone, not just the organizers, can face from 1 to 6 years of jail.

France and Italy organized Street parties in all major cities this weekend, blocking traffic, playing music.
Naples and Bologna had between 5.000 to 10.000 people in the street. Turin, Rome and Florence about 2.000 each.
The government and newspapers were completely silent on the issue. Only Euronews had a brief coverage of the massive protests.

We feel completely battered. I know similar repressions had been going on in other parts of Europe as well.
Berlin last ten years has seen a dramatic change in the landscape.

When Covid lockdown measures started, there was a Rainbow gathering. in Tuscany. peaceful people.
They were threated like criminals. Cars and goods confiscated. They were up in the mountains, in forest.
But those measures were in place for everybody. Not just ravers.

I wanted to share this as I don't know if others are aware of this. I know every one on this lonely planet had various issues with the Covid lockdowns. From South America to East Asia and beyond.
What are your thoughts? Why are we facing globally a resurgence of moral values, particularly Christian...
Sorry, the video it's only in Italian... France has no coverage as far as I know...

https://it.euronews.com/2022/12/18/prot ... -anti-rave

[Aosta]

The UK government passed a similar law in the 1990s, designed to shut down illegal raves. It was bad law from the outset, and ultimately it failed.

Yes another one of Thatcher's great ideas
Remember it well and so this track was made and played at illegal raves everywhere

[rorystorm]

The UK government passed a similar law in the 1990s, designed to shut down illegal raves. It was bad law from the outset, and ultimately it failed.

Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. Fucking shocker. Banned public gatherings characterised by the playing of music with repetitious beats, allowed the police to stop and search anyone they liked, racist provisions targeting Travelers. Etc. Check it out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_ ... r_Act_1994.

Autechre bless them did a ten minute protest track which doesn't have a single bar that repeats a drum pattern. It's pretty great if you like that kind of thing, which I do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti_EP

and if you thing that's bad, I'm just going to leave this here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_28

[rorystorm]

The UK government passed a similar law in the 1990s, designed to shut down illegal raves. It was bad law from the outset, and ultimately it failed.

Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. Fucking shocker. Banned public gatherings characterised by the playing of music with repetitious beats, allowed the police to stop and search anyone they liked, racist provisions targeting Travelers. Etc. Check it out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_ ... r_Act_1994.

Autechre bless them did a ten minute protest track which doesn't have a single bar that repeats a drum pattern. It's pretty great if you like that kind of thing, which I do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti_EP

and if you thing that's bad, I'm just going to leave this here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_28

[edit, apologies if that got a little political. My bad but it's from the past and music relevant, so...... ]

[Re8et]

Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. Fucking shocker. Banned public gatherings characterised by the playing of music with repetitious beats, allowed the police to stop and search anyone they liked, racist provisions targeting Travelers. Etc. Check it out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_ ... r_Act_1994.

Autechre bless them did a ten minute protest track which doesn't have a single bar that repeats a drum pattern. It's pretty great if you like that kind of thing, which I do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti_EP

and if you thing that's bad, I'm just going to leave this here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_28

[edit, apologies if that got a little political. My bad but it's from the past and music relevant, so...... ]

You don't have to. I was living and partying in London in 1994 already. So I knew smh the situation there.
I was still a teen, it's much a different state today. Italy had small gatherings in the 90s, nothing comparable to the size of Uk parties. For contrary In Italy we had big musical gatherings payed by political parties. In Bologna there were two big one two times a year. All Free. All gone.

[challism]

Leadership is failing, on a global level. They know they will eventually fall from power, so the they tighten their grip, in the meantime.

Evil can only go so far, before it is dealt with.

[rorystorm]

[edit, apologies if that got a little political. My bad but it's from the past and music relevant, so...... ]

You don't have to. I was living and partying in London in 1994 already. So I knew smh the situation there.
I was still a teen, it's much a different state today. Italy had small gatherings in the 90s, nothing comparable to the size of Uk parties. For contrary In Italy we had big musical gatherings payed by political parties. In Bologna there were two big one two times a year. All Free. All gone.

yeah, the situation you're describing sounds frightening. I hate the turning to the far right that's been happening internationally the last five or six years. I mean, centrist right - okay I don't agree with it personally but whatever, whatever. But the populist far right - Trump, Bolsanaro, Modi, you name it - just awful. Hate to think where it's going to put the world by the end of this decade.

[MuttReason]

You don't have to. I was living and partying in London in 1994 already. So I knew smh the situation there.
I was still a teen, it's much a different state today. Italy had small gatherings in the 90s, nothing comparable to the size of Uk parties. For contrary In Italy we had big musical gatherings payed by political parties. In Bologna there were two big one two times a year. All Free. All gone.

yeah, the situation you're describing sounds frightening. I hate the turning to the far right that's been happening internationally the last five or six years. I mean, centrist right - okay I don't agree with it personally but whatever, whatever. But the populist far right - Trump, Bolsanaro, Modi, you name it - just awful. Hate to think where it's going to put the world by the end of this decade.

The saving grace is that in the end, autocrats are so often incompetent. Their chains of command are full of people too afraid to tell the truth, so bit by bit the whole regime ends up founded on deceit and delusion and eventually falls apart. And in democracies, bad laws made by stupid or narcissistic politicians chasing after gushing media headlines also pretty much always fall apart. Genuinely evidence-based policy tends to work well for years because it draws on truths that the vast majority of the population recognise as immutable fact. Laws framed on the basis of flaky policy-based evidence age really badly, really quickly. They screw up people’s lives for sure, but they don’t stick around on the statute books for long. The UK anti-rave laws were a case in point, they were a nasty small-minded spasm from the reactionary right, and in practical terms they were ludicrous and achieved nothing.

[littlejam]

hello,

@rorystorm: that Autechre band is dope

doing a deepdive on the youtube
gathering songs

reminds me of 'glitch mob' band

great driving, boating, free diving songs

thanks again

cheers and eat well,

j

[Aosta]

The UK government passed a similar law in the 1990s, designed to shut down illegal raves. It was bad law from the outset, and ultimately it failed.

Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. Fucking shocker. Banned public gatherings characterised by the playing of music with repetitious beats, allowed the police to stop and search anyone they liked, racist provisions targeting Travelers. Etc. Check it out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_ ... r_Act_1994.

And there was also this protest song too by the House Crew that got into the UK charts, the lyrics says it all.

[Jac459]

The UK government passed a similar law in the 1990s, designed to shut down illegal raves. It was bad law from the outset, and ultimately it failed. The parties still happened, and the music didn’t stop. Lot of great acts emerged from that era, too. Reality is the police don’t have the capacity to arrest everyone, they cannot be everywhere all the time, and the courts would fall apart if there were many thousands of people appearing before them every month on social disorder charges. It’s all just stupid political populist shit, designed to look tough but garbage in real life. Absolutely right to protest about it and force moderate politicians to come off the fence and challenge this stuff, but long term… it’ll die off anyway, it is stupid and practically unenforceable.

At least it generated a very good song about it:

[Jagwah]

@Op really sorry to hear that. We can't get political here but boy I would have a lot to say if we could, so I'll just finish by saying I hope militias all over the world suddenly rise up, or something worthwhile happens that stops this unbelievable trajectory our leaders are currently on.

Leadership is failing, on a global level. They know they will eventually fall from power, so the they tighten their grip, in the meantime.

Evil can only go so far, before it is dealt with.

Yes things are getting extremely unstable, I really hope you are right.

[Re8et]

The point here is how to fight back.

This is an attack on a way of life. On the 4-4 beat. On the poors. On educational efforts made by crews and associations to normalize the concept of Free party in more healthy situations than the standard conservative
church close-minded dark aged people want everybody to look at things the same way the look at things for they don't like it for any reason which would be uncomprehensible to understand from any human being with an IQ higher than 28.

The amendment came out just days after the new party got into their chairs, in disorder to demonstrate brutality killed the video stars, because raves makes a lot of views, particularly under strict lockdown measures, when they are the only one escaping the system.

The fact that rave are also a way of life, and there is people investing in their education in a sector that otherwise would be dead. Some example is the DIY communities of people making visuals, coreography, hairdress, all kinds of dress and mutations, synth engineering... a community that is diversity...
There are no University programs for Synth studies. France has some. Not Italy, except some private institutes.
Germany, Estonia, has massive tax cuts for small business practices in the electronic-artisanal sectors.

These guys should help local music schools, community centres, to get to the end of the day as the country is still crippled by the extensive massive inflation bumps that has practically polverized years of efforts in small business dedicated to music, that is related to the rave thing in some way or another....
Instead they fight against the poors, the homeless, the public meds...

[Re8et]

It has passed the law just few hours ago...
Two weeks of Resistance by the left wing...
Today parliament was mayhem... literally...
I cant even think about going in details...
Now everyone, indipendently if they have done damage to a property or not, playing a guitar concert or not
will face the same issues...

They broke something like 9 constitutional laws with this one...
unbelieveble...

[jam-s]

They broke something like 9 constitutional laws with this one...
unbelieveble...

Then it shouldn't be a problem to get this challenged and removed by the courts.

[MuttReason]

They broke something like 9 constitutional laws with this one...
unbelieveble...

Then it shouldn't be a problem to get this challenged and removed by the courts.

In a democracy with an independent judiciary, bad laws don’t last long. They can last forever if all the judges are in the government’s pocket and if people’s votes mean nothing. Italy isn’t in that place (yet… and hopefully never will be).

This new Italian law is utterly dumb. Just wait for the backlash once it is enacted and the first prosecutions start. Soon enough it will be one of many reasons why the new government is seen to be a failure in the public’s eyes and, eventually, they’ll collapse (just like pretty much every Italian government in my lifetime) and the new bunch will promise to fix the errors of the last lot including this stupid law.

Democratic politics is all about optics, and locking up young people for having fun is never, ever a good look.

[Re8et]

Then it shouldn't be a problem to get this challenged and removed by the courts.

In a democracy with an independent judiciary, bad laws don’t last long. They can last forever if all the judges are in the government’s pocket and if people’s votes mean nothing. Italy isn’t in that place (yet… and hopefully never will be).

This new Italian law is utterly dumb. Just wait for the backlash once it is enacted and the first prosecutions start. Soon enough it will be one of many reasons why the new government is seen to be a failure in the public’s eyes and, eventually, they’ll collapse (just like pretty much every Italian government in my lifetime) and the new bunch will promise to fix the errors of the last lot including this stupid law.

Democratic politics is all about optics, and locking up young people for having fun is never, ever a good look.

They named the law anti Rave, but in the same law, they put back the law system to the Berlusconi mafia times laws. They just undo the good laws Italy has been painstakingly fixing since berlusconi corrupt government, that actually EU was priding Italy for. Now judges are again all alone in the fight against mafia and big corruption, they removed the screen protection, so they can hit judges... It's a tuff fight...

It took five governments to fix the past anti corruption-mafia laws, and now this one just removed everything in one law.... they want the youngs to pay for discoteques, and if they dont, it's 3 to 6 years of prison and 10 to 100k fine... and yes, berlusconi is still there behind the curtains...

[MuttReason]

They named the law anti Rave, but in the same law, they put back the law system to the Berlusconi mafia times laws. They just undo the good laws Italy has been painstakingly fixing since berlusconi corrupt government, that actually EU was priding Italy for. Now judges are again all alone in the fight against mafia and big corruption, they removed the screen protection, so they can hit judges... It's a tuff fight...

It took five governments to fix the past anti corruption-mafia laws, and now this one just removed everything in one law.... they want the youngs to pay for discoteques, and if they dont, it's 3 to 6 years of prison and 10 to 100k fine... and yes, berlusconi is still there behind the curtains...

It’ll be interesting to see how the new Italian government plays out at EU level. Look at the battle between Hungary and the EU institutions over rule of law, independent judiciary etc. The EU has a bunch of rules that member states are supposed to follow, many of which are focused on protecting democratic rights. If the Italian government go hard down the road of autocracy (with a bunch of corruption on top) there would be major consequences for the whole of the EU. It would not end well. More likely, this government will fall apart soon enough (it’s a pretty unstable coalition) and there will be a new government. Locking up a bunch of young people for the crime of dancing to music outdoors will just make that happen even sooner.

And Berlusconi? Yeah. Amazing he is still around. But even he cannot live for ever. And internationally, the man is a bad joke. He has zero status or leverage outside Italy, he’s the political equivalent of the undead.

[avasopht]

It's all insane but somewhat inevitable. Unfortunately.

I'm just waiting for Hari Seldon to pop up

[MrFigg]

The UK government passed a similar law in the 1990s, designed to shut down illegal raves. It was bad law from the outset, and ultimately it failed. The parties still happened, and the music didn’t stop. Lot of great acts emerged from that era, too. Reality is the police don’t have the capacity to arrest everyone, they cannot be everywhere all the time, and the courts would fall apart if there were many thousands of people appearing before them every month on social disorder charges. It’s all just stupid political populist shit, designed to look tough but garbage in real life. Absolutely right to protest about it and force moderate politicians to come off the fence and challenge this stuff, but long term… it’ll die off anyway, it is stupid and practically unenforceable.

Hahaha...yeah, remember that. Music characterized by a series of repetitive beats. They made a genre of music illegal. Also that diective that three people or more walking together could be deemed a procession and dispersed by police. Happy days.

[Re8et]

And Berlusconi? Yeah. Amazing he is still around. But even he cannot live for ever. And internationally, the man is a bad joke. He has zero status or leverage outside Italy, he’s the political equivalent of the undead.

You dont imagine how much we would like this man to vaporize... I remember as if it was yesterday
the day he decided to get into politics... in any country a convicted should not be allowed to do any politics, except Italy... they managed to take away judges protections this time. Passed laws against NGOs that rescues migrants in international waters that goes against international laws of the Sea... EU should have stepped in already...