”Shut the fuck up and use the software. It's great.”

[DaveyG]

”Shut the fuck up and use the software. It's great.”

This is a smug, selfish, pseudo virtue signaling position to have.

That'll be the sound of you quoting the wrong person.

[antic604]

That'll be the sound of you quoting the wrong person.

No. He's the OP, praising that position. I know it was written by a specific person - present in this thread - whom he was quoting, but it's a generic statement occurring quite often here & elsewhere. It's about the sentiment, not about the guy who said it

[TritoneAddiction]

”Shut the fuck up and use the software. It's great.”

This is a smug, selfish, pseudo virtue signaling position to have.

People who say/write that, are most likely on the newest version of the software, using new plugins, benefitting from recent workflow additions, etc. As we all are.

But they just can't be bothered - or don't have the knowledge and/or imagination - to consider what would improve their workflow further, what features would allow them to capture their ideas more easily, what could give new inspiration... Or maybe they have too much time on their hands and no responsibilities, so that laborious workarounds or having to jump between apps doesn't bother them? Otherwise, they'd still be on R6 because - following that logic - it had everything anyone would ever need!

I don't mind people pushing back against specific feature request, especially if they can substantiate that with a reasonable counterargument. But just going with "STFU & use the software" is disrespectful, condescending, uncalled for and is a clear result of that person feeling superior, smarter, more talented, etc.

How would you (collective "you", not you specifically) feel, if I started the topic topic calling people stupid for not wanting folder tracks, MIDI comping or editable keyboard shortcuts?

Because that's the equivalent of "STFU..."

Apparently words are violence and subjective feelings trump the truth, so can't you (disclaimer above applies) understand that? Or does it only work one way (yes, it's a rhetorical question)?

There’s a time for acknowledging how Reason and everything gear related can improve. Sure. I do that too from time to time. And there’s also a time for recognizing that simply sitting down to create and working with what you’ve got is more important than looking for new gear. This thread is a reminder of the latter. Tbh threads focusing more on the creative aspects are pretty rare here. The vast majority of threads focuses on gear related stuff. Even the ones which aren't initially about gear/DAWs/plugins tends to turn into that kind of stuff.

Yes the quote is rude. But I read it more as an unintentional funny and motivational quote. The original post by stillifegaijin was a drunken mistake after all.
Despite that I find it motivational. Reading the quote makes me want to reach for old REs that hasn’t gotten enough attention yet and dig a bit deeper. And it also makes me want to create more music rather than spending my time scrolling after new toys in the Shop. That's it. No need to read more into it than that.

I’m not on R12 btw. Still on R11. I work with same old REs I bought 7-8 years ago but also a bunch of newer ones. Many of the older ones are still my go-tos. The only VST I own is Ozone 8 mastering stuff. So I don’t really see myself as someone who needs the latest and greatest.

[Tiny Montgomery]

”Shut the fuck up and use the software. It's great.”

This is a smug, selfish, pseudo virtue signaling position to have.

People who say/write that, are most likely on the newest version of the software, using new plugins, benefitting from recent workflow additions, etc. As we all are.

But they just can't be bothered - or don't have the knowledge and/or imagination - to consider what would improve their workflow further, what features would allow them to capture their ideas more easily, what could give new inspiration... Or maybe they have too much time on their hands and no responsibilities, so that laborious workarounds or having to jump between apps doesn't bother them? Otherwise, they'd still be on R6 because - following that logic - it had everything anyone would ever need!

I don't mind people pushing back against specific feature request, especially if they can substantiate that with a reasonable counterargument. But just going with "STFU & use the software" is disrespectful, condescending, uncalled for and is a clear result of that person feeling superior, smarter, more talented, etc.

How would you (collective "you", not you specifically) feel, if I started the topic topic calling people stupid for not wanting folder tracks, MIDI comping or editable keyboard shortcuts?

Because that's the equivalent of "STFU..."

Apparently words are violence and subjective feelings trump the truth, so can't you (disclaimer above applies) understand that? Or does it only work one way (yes, it's a rhetorical question)?

Or maybe they finally felt a (not unreasonable) feeling of disgust & frustration after years of reading autistic middle aged men on message boards gripe over nothing when they were just looking for something interesting to read on their downtime.

Good natured feature requests are one thing but a hobbyist writing about their music software issues as though they are life changing & really important shows them up as someone who has lost their sense of perspective imo. Its usually someone who does not have enough real life to worry about or someone who's real life is so awful that they vent spleen online about non issues as a displacement activity. That being said for some music production you tubers this is now the audience they cultivate - not mentioning any names of course.

[challism]

That'll be the sound of you quoting the wrong person.

No. He's the OP, praising that position. I know it was written by a specific person - present in this thread - whom he was quoting, but it's a generic statement occurring quite often here & elsewhere. It's about the sentiment, not about the guy who said it

I always remind my kids not to drop the F bomb in front of American grandma. And here it is in my online sanctuary, slapping me in the face. I could see someone complaining about the language, but I don't really get why someone would be opposed to the sentiment. Basically: You use the software because you like making your noise of choice. So go make noise. Don't get caught up on what it doesn't do/have; enjoy what it does. Glass is half-full kind of approach.

I like this sentiment. I don't think it's dismissing the wonderful update/feature request/update cycle and the joy some people seem to get by constantly being miserable about something that is wonderful. Sure, we all hope we get updates fulfilling our fantasy feature requests, but let's not lose track of the reason we want to use the software in the first place (I know, that was a pretty sweet double pun). It's about the music/noise right?

Recorded music hasn't been around all that long, and it's easier and cheaper to do now than it ever has been. The quality is amazing. The endless things you can do when designing sound is incredible this day and age. Even Reason 7 was great. I've been happy with Reason since they gave us audio recording in the sequencer and REs. Up until Reason 11, I would have still been happy using Reason 7 (as long as I could still use all my REs).

The software is great. Go use it. And also STFU (not you personally).

[jam-s]

I always remind my kids not to drop the F bomb in front of American grandma. And here it is in my online sanctuary, slapping me in the face.

Don't be so hard on the F-word. It's fucking useful

[dvdrtldg]

autistic middle aged men

I agree 100% with your post, but just a small nitpick: can we not do this? People who actually are on the autism spectrum don't always appreciate their identity being used as a casual synonym for "annoying" or "obsessive"

[rorystorm]

autistic middle aged men

I agree 100% with your post, but just a small nitpick: can we not do this? People who actually are on the autism spectrum don't always appreciate their identity being used as a casual synonym for "annoying" or "obsessive"

+1000

[rorystorm]

And you know, its the weekend up north right? Why don't you go the pub tonight and start a conversation about football and then come back and tell me about how being annoying and obsessed with entirely meaningless detail is the preserve of the neurodivergent.

[selig]

OK everyone, y'all are taking it to another level here. You’re good. Maybe too good.
And that’s not a compliment.
Hopefully you have got it all out of your system and we can all be civil again?

[Tiny Montgomery]

And you know, its the weekend up north right? Why don't you go the pub tonight and start a conversation about football and then come back and tell me about how being annoying and obsessed with entirely meaningless detail is the preserve of the neurodivergent.

Apologies for any offence caused, moment of weakness there and probably guilty of venting spleen myself. I just find the culture around music production whether its social media, forums or you tube to have become weirdly toxic of late.

Rory, thank you for introducing me, a middle aged British male, to the culture of football. Its a familiar image you conjur though,. Do you think there will be much language policing going on in that pub (this is a good natured joke in case of any doubt)

[rorystorm]

Lol so was mine!

[selig]

Apologies for any offence caused, moment of weakness there and probably guilty of venting spleen myself. I just find the culture around music production whether its social media, forums or you tube to have become weirdly toxic of late.

Then I invite everyone to please join us in helping to promote a less toxic culture here, assuming that’s what we all really want.
The mods can’t do it on our own!

[stillifegaijin]

I am amazed there is still a conversation, and quite a heated one going on about my drunken, and yes, frustrated, quote. I am still tickled that TritoneAddiction (and others) find it inspiring. I appreciate them attempting to turn it into something positive!

There seems to be some questions about who I am.

First, yes, in real life, everywhere, all the time, I use “foul language” a lot. I don’t apologize for that. I don’t believe in the idea that there are good words and bad words. There are offensive and rude words when directly used to attack, insult, or demean another human or group of humans. There are words I will not use out of respect, but not because they are bad. Fuck is not one of those words that I restrict from my vocabulary. In my opinion, “Shut the fuck up” is no more or less offensive than “shut up” is. It might be more effective. It might just have a flow and a ring to it. But, should I be getting drunk and telling people to “shut up”? No, probably not. But I already apologized for the original post. And I will, from this point on tame my language in this post to make it clear that I have no intention of offending anyone or coming across as aggressive in any way.

- Am I, "most likely on the newest version of the software, using new plugins, benefitting from recent workflow additions, etc. As we all are." - Yes, I am but I am that because the newest version of Reason is the best so far and I have been using Reason since version 2.5. I am very aware of the updates and improvements that have been made over time. Without those improvements I would still be using ProTools and hating it. For the record I have used, throughout my life; 4-track recorders, 16 and 24 track tape, Master Tracks Pro on various Atari computers, ADATs, Tascam DA-88s, and ProTools. I have tried and opted out of Logic, Ableton, Bitwig, Harrison Mixbus, and Luna. Yes, I know about "tedious workarounds" and compared to any format or daw, for me personally, I have to use very few, if any, in Reason.

- Is it that I, “just can't be bothered - or don't have the knowledge and/or imagination - to consider what would improve my workflow further, what features would allow me to capture my ideas more easily, what could give new inspiration... Or maybe I have too much time on my hands and no responsibilities, so that laborious workarounds or having to jump between apps doesn't bother me?” - Well, I definitely don’t have too much time on my hands. I am involved in multiple creative projects, run a small label, have a full time job doing photo retouching, I’m married, and I try to spend at least some time with friends and family. I also don’t lack imagination for workflow improvements. Workflow improvements are a huge part of my life and I make them all the time. But I find it more productive and fulfilling to spend my time making music and art rather than complaining about this or that feature that might be missing from my program of choice. I also realize that any amount of switching between apps, such as leaving Reason to repair something in RX, or leaving Reason to work in Melodyne, as I still prefer the standalone version over the VST3 inside Reason for most use cases, is still infinitely faster and more effective than any of this would have been 20 or 30 years ago. There are things I can do in 5 minutes within Reason that used to take a day, or a week, or longer. I also don’t expect any program or app to be the best at everything. So, sometimes, moving to a different app just yields better results. Sometimes taking that break to switch things around clears ones head and allows new ideas to flow. I don’t need Reason to be my everything. I need it to be exactly what it is, the program that I have chosen to use and spent my time committed to mastering.

- Do I, "feel superior, smarter, more talented, etc.” - The short answer is, “Hell no!” I don’t. I feel like a failure most of the time. But I blame my failure to achieve what I’ve wanted on myself, not on my tools. A longer answer would include the fact that when I was younger, yes, I did. I was a super snob. And when I was I spent less time trying to master my tools as best I could and more time expecting everything to work and function and reward me exactly how I thought it should! And now I regret that. Love the process. Love the hard work.

- Did I, that night, “Finally feel a (not unreasonable) feeling of disgust & frustration after years of people on message boards gripe over nothing when I was just looking for something interesting to read in my downtime.” - Yes, I did. Now this is going to be a little judgmental and I apologize upfront. I am not trying to offend. But, I have spent my entire life working with computers and technology and music gear. As I mentioned I also work in visual arts, primarily photo retouching, but also video editing and color grading. I am also the person that many people I know call when they are having computer problems. From my, purely anecdotal experience, the vast majority of people who claim to face some crippling barrier with their tools that stops them from being as efficient or productive or as creative as they would like to be, are the same people who refuse to spend time really trying to learn and understand their tools. They are also the same people who refuse to take care of, clean, organize, and maintain their tools. So, when I come onto this forum for useful advice, or to try to give useful advice, or to discover new tips, tricks, techniques or deals, and find so much time being wasted complaining about “nothing” instead of using the incredibly powerful tools we all have it depresses me.

I’m not saying Reason is perfect. I’m not saying it’s for everyone. Selig loves Luna. I tried it and while I certainly like it better than most other daws I do not want to use it. I cannot use Ableton simply because it’s ugly and difficult for me to look at. Logic has never made any sense to me as a tool to make music even if I’m technically what you might call an “Apple fanboy” - I can take it! ProTools is fine but so very bland and uninspiring to me. I use Reason because it’s the tool that works best with my brain and my workflow. All I was saying is that it’s great. But, if it’s not great for you then you have so many other options. Find something that works and use it. I met a guy yesterday who still only uses tape. My wife, who for the record, is autistic, has never been able to wrap her brain around any music program until I showed her Reason and now she is highly productive and creative with it. If you can’t find something that suits your needs maybe it’s just you?

And finally, please consider this - Any super important feature or change that you want just might require another change that someone else does not want. See Combinator 2 and the endless complaints about the workflow and interface changes that created. Sure, track folders would be amazing. I would love that. But, maybe it’s very hard to do without breaking something else.

Anyway, that’s all. That’s a lot. Maybe don’t shut up, but please do consider stopping the yelling at each other and calling each other names and making assumptions about people.

[robussc]

@stillifegaijin - well said!

[antic604]

I get it guys.

I really do.

But people are different. Some don't need a lot to be happy, others don't need a lot to feel miserable. The choice between "glass half empty" vs. "glass half full" often isn't a matter of will. It's an innate matter of character, shaped by biology, environment and societal conditioning. But both sides need each other, because they're complementary. Like men and women. Like political left and right. Like introverts and extraverts. Like risk takers and risk averse. Like artists and engineers. And so on...

That's why I'm surprised that it's allowed - no, encouraged! - to sideline one group

Believe me - as much as you find "complaint threads" tiring and annoying, I find "praise threads" equally unnerving. And it's not because I don't enjoy Reason - I actually do! It's the only DAW I never sold (and bought again), because it's special. And it's one where I made my best music to date.

But I find such threads difficult, because I envy the lot of you that you can just so casually put aside things that bother you, or constrain you, or keep you worried...

But I get it.

[selig]

But I find such threads difficult, because I envy the lot of you that you can just so casually put aside things that bother you, or constrain you, or keep you worried...

But I get it.

How can you NOT?
I call it “focus”. I would never sleep if I wasn’t able to shift my focus away from all of the things that bother me and keep me worried! There is a time and place for everything.

I can complain about all the things that bother me, but not 100% of the time I am alive. Sometimes I need to put some things aside and focus on what is directly in front of me. It only “looks” casual because I’ve gotten good at it through practice!

I can’t speak for everyone, naturally, but I got shit to do. I can’t just sit around worrying about all the possible things I could worry about. I can’t be bothered in every waking moment about all the things that possibly bother me. I would quickly self destruct if my entire life was focused on all of this stuff. The only option I see is to put these things aside as often as possible so I can get work done. I got shit to do.

[antic604]

But I find such threads difficult, because I envy the lot of you that you can just so casually put aside things that bother you, or constrain you, or keep you worried...

But I get it.

How can you NOT?
I call it “focus”. I would never sleep if I wasn’t able to shift my focus away from all of the things that bother me and keep me worried! There is a time and place for everything.

I can complain about all the things that bother me, but not 100% of the time I am alive. Sometimes I need to put some things aside and focus on what is directly in front of me. It only “looks” casual because I’ve gotten good at it through practice!

I can’t speak for everyone, naturally, but I got shit to do. I can’t just sit around worrying about all the possible things I could worry about. I can’t be bothered in every waking moment about all the things that possibly bother me. I would quickly self destruct if my entire life was focused on all of this stuff. The only option I see is to put these things aside as often as possible so I can get work done. I got shit to do.

Why you're assuming I do nothing but complain all day???

I've loving wife, we raise 3 great kids (21, 15 and 7), I've high-responsibility, time-demanding career and I'm highly regarded in my field in Poland, etc. When I've time for my hobby, I write music, educate myself about it or check new software and of that time maybe 20-30% I'm making videos or writing on forums, FB, Discord either helping other people or sharing my perspective on where this or that DAW could go and what missing features would be useful. I regard that as my contribution to music making, because I know what I'm talking about, I understand potential technical difficulties in implementing stuff, I've good overview of market / competition landscape. Perhaps I should spend that time making music instead, but my psychological makeup tells me it's also important and valuable, to some at least. But I'm also unhappy about it, because I'd like to have more time for both.

But I get it - either I post yet another derivative, uninspired "fire beat" and get praised; or "complain" and get STFU because of it.

[selig]

How can you NOT?
I call it “focus”. I would never sleep if I wasn’t able to shift my focus away from all of the things that bother me and keep me worried! There is a time and place for everything.

I can complain about all the things that bother me, but not 100% of the time I am alive. Sometimes I need to put some things aside and focus on what is directly in front of me. It only “looks” casual because I’ve gotten good at it through practice!

I can’t speak for everyone, naturally, but I got shit to do. I can’t just sit around worrying about all the possible things I could worry about. I can’t be bothered in every waking moment about all the things that possibly bother me. I would quickly self destruct if my entire life was focused on all of this stuff. The only option I see is to put these things aside as often as possible so I can get work done. I got shit to do.

Why you're assuming I do nothing but complain all day???

Why are you assuming I was talking about you?
I was talking about the folks you envy, the folks like myself that can casually put stuff that bothers us “aside”.

[integerpoet]

autistic middle aged men

I agree 100% with your post, but just a small nitpick: can we not do this? People who actually are on the autism spectrum don't always appreciate their identity being used as a casual synonym for "annoying" or "obsessive"

Fucking neurotypicals will never realize their non-linearity and dishonesty masquerading as "ambiguity" is an evolutionary dead-end.

Just thought I'd throw in a little bitter satire of myself for laughs and solidarity.

[Tiny Montgomery]

I get it guys.

I really do.

But people are different. Some don't need a lot to be happy, others don't need a lot to feel miserable. The choice between "glass half empty" vs. "glass half full" often isn't a matter of will. It's an innate matter of character, shaped by biology, environment and societal conditioning. But both sides need each other, because they're complementary. Like men and women. Like political left and right. Like introverts and extraverts. Like risk takers and risk averse. Like artists and engineers. And so on...

That's why I'm surprised that it's allowed - no, encouraged! - to sideline one group

Believe me - as much as you find "complaint threads" tiring and annoying, I find "praise threads" equally unnerving. And it's not because I don't enjoy Reason - I actually do! It's the only DAW I never sold (and bought again), because it's special. And it's one where I made my best music to date.

But I find such threads difficult, because I envy the lot of you that you can just so casually put aside things that bother you, or constrain you, or keep you worried...

But I get it.

I feel bad as I know I quoted you but it was more of a general gripe on my part and maybe a bit too general & scattergun if im honest. I think you're very genuine & honest about the fact you just love music production and all things around that and I for one think you're well meaning and you shouldn't feel the need to explain or justify the love of your hobby. God knows we're all lucky to have such a wholesome distraction in these times .