Music Industry and you

This forum is for anything not Reason related, if you just want to talk about other stuff. Please keep it friendly!
Post Reply

What would you like a new music platform to offer you?

Generate more revenue
1
8%
Get more fans and listeners
3
25%
Just distribute/release my music
2
17%
Make me a successfull Musician/Band
1
8%
Other, specify please if possible
5
42%
 
Total votes: 12
User avatar
Kevin Sunray
Posts: 34
Joined: 16 Feb 2015
Contact:

30 May 2021

Hey everyone,

I have not prepared writing this so I may have some mistakes. I really want to share it long time ago but tonight I found some time so I would like to discuss a little bit about how things are currently in the business and how difficult it is for all the artists to make a living with their music and make their dreams come true. I really want to know your problem, what you want to be improved and your own ideas if you have any. Already I know a lot of people that not only they don't make money but they work to pay the marketing of their music which in most of cases fails at the end and not because of their music. 5 years ago I remember asking myself "Is there anything we can do to improve the percentage of the artists that get a piece from the big pie?" As an artist I have done a lot of things, I had my own record label, I have worked as A&R in various labels but I was always quiet so unfortunately there are a lot of things untold but that's not a post about me. I am just mentioning that I have experienced a lot the last 20 years of my dj and music career so most of my sayings are also from what I had discussed with other people as well and also experienced with.

So all start with an idea back in 2015, when I was also not feeling productive and my revenue was kinda :shock: , so I started developing the idea, called Traxbeat, in 2016 with a specific goal in my mind. To help musicians get their music to the right audience and filter the music in a more fair way. So actually those 5 years I learned to program and I developed everything you can imagine from backend to frontend, anything that was needed to make it work, alone yes without past experience( just some html), tons of code to read now. So these years I tested it twice with few artists , around 100. I did a lot changes. The good news is that it worked as I expected in both tests and what is promising is that the sample of the people were totally unknown to me and the way they rated music was exactly what I expected, fair in most cases. Of course there were improvements to be done not so much on the rating/ranking/filtering approach but more in the user interface and adding distribution channel as well.

So now that I am planning to launch it I still see that the problem with making money from yr music, increasing your REAL fans, getting your music to the right audience is worst than I expected. I know, I know you make music so you can do a tour and get paid. That's what most artists do, nowadays. Ofc you need to have your music heard first, get known, get fans, grow your network and so on. The real problem is the amount of music available to listen which is so big. There is no filtering ofc, music genres are *******, world is flooded with bots, fake ad insights and so on. A lot of people are loosing money to get their music outhere, right now.

I remember myself as a dj buying vinyls every week, going to the store listening to let's say 50-60 records in a week, an ok number, and choosing what I liked and cool that's all. Then we had the choice to sit in front of a laptop and listen to mp3s on a digital store and buy in a very low price and even more tracks, that's ok as well. The problem is that now this is not working, really it is a pain in the ass if you tell me to go to beatport or even traxsource and listen releases of the whole week to buy some music. Sorry whoever tells me that he can listen to all the music tell me how you do it. The thing is and here is the problem... A lot of good music is getting lost because of the amount of music we get. So we need to filter it. Yes?

The same happens with promos especially for known DJs that are receiving tons of music that some have other people to filter the promos and others just get music from specific labels and artists they know. Now you understand why DJs and record labels don't even reply. Yes? And you also understand that an A&R can be someone that will listen to a big hit and will say that it sucks! Yes? Because that A&R is not feeling well that day, or he has ear fatique already or he is unexperienced etc etc. You know the word luck and if you have heard some famous musicians in a documentary have also included it in their words. I have heard it so many times and I totally agree. But we can change it as well.

Also I created an account in Spotify last year, honestly just to see how it works. Amazing that you can make your own playlists with tracks you know. I rarely use it to listen music from the past. Nice! Now please Spotify I want to listen some good new music. What the heck is that algorithm? Really YouTube is much better somehow. I strongly believe that all these platforms are very good music libraries and that's all. Am I wrong? If yes tell me your own experience.

I am really feeling that things are getting worse and worse instead of improving for musicians. There are plenty of music which is not filtered correctly for the music fans and music fans are the actual customer, not a label, a dj or a radio who are just a middle-man/distributor.

What are your thoughts? Your problems? What you want to see changing in the music industry? Will you trust a new music platform that your music will be rated and ranked by other people you don't know and that this rating will be bound forever?

Cheers :reason:
Last edited by Kevin Sunray on 31 May 2021, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
DaveyG
Posts: 2499
Joined: 03 May 2020

30 May 2021

I'm old school. I still have a publishing deal that brings in some money now and then, but the truth is that most of my proper money earners were 30-odd years ago. At first I got lucky. No other way to look at it. I've not written for mega stars but I had some minor chart success with the sort of bands/artists you can't remember when you see them on TOTP repeats. If there was a world record for being in the room next to major artists but never actually meeting them I might win that one. My second world record might be for entering rooms recently vacated by said artists without meeting them. My memoirs would not be great reading - "Did I ever tell you about the time I almost met xxx?" haha.

But if I was starting from scratch today I just don't think I could make any sort of living from music. It's so much harder to get your music through to the people that matter. If you are a performer with a distinctive style and enough nous to get a significant following on YouTube, Insta, TokTok or whatever then you stand a chance. If you are a (mostly) non-performing songwriter then it's a tough world right now. So these days I write more for fun, beer and pin money.

Kevin, best of luck with the launch. The key to success will be finding way to allow the cream to rise to the top and the other 95% to sink into the noise.

User avatar
aeox
Competition Winner
Posts: 3222
Joined: 23 Feb 2017
Location: Oregon

30 May 2021

I'm fascinated by your post, it made me think hard about this and I'm curious to see what your idea is for your website.

Currently my outlook on it is: (apologizes if a bit off topic)

-Be prolific in creating masterpiece after masterpiece. One bleeding edge, never-heard before track after the other and post to youtube or send to labels. Eventually momentum would be gained, only a matter of time, and persistence.

-Have decent music but a GREAT "artist persona" or "brand" A lot of the time I think people latch onto the concept of a artist brand or track/song concept, more than the actual music itself. (I'm guilty) When I first saw a image of "Girl with Balloon" by Banksy, I thought to myself.. anyone could've made that.. right? I find visually impressive art a lot, that has no real meaning behind it at all.
I still appreciate it but there is something to be said about going deeper than that and trying to connect with people on a "deeper" level somehow. Or just relating to people, however vaguely it may be.

Both are very hard :D Breaking into the market means you almost have to be a jack of all trades, and maybe some luck? But you have to put yourself out there, not just post on soundcloud and forget about it or delete it, like I tend to do. I haven't even started on the branding part yet.

In regard to submitting music to A&Rs. Ear fatigue, different tastes, lack of them, and so on.. All factors of course. I imagine they get tons of music that just isn't a good fit for the label or network, even though it may "technically" be a good track to many others.

A combo of my music being mediocre on average, and having no branding , makes things an uphill battle.
Those are the things I'm trying to focus on personally, but it would be cool to see what you've come up with in regard to your music rating website.


I'll keep working my delivery job until I figure it out myself, wish me luck! :D

User avatar
motuscott
Posts: 3422
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Contest Weiner

30 May 2021

40 virgins
the respect of my peers

OK, a pony...
sold
Who’s using the royal plural now baby? 🧂

User avatar
Kevin Sunray
Posts: 34
Joined: 16 Feb 2015
Contact:

31 May 2021

DaveyG wrote:
30 May 2021
I'm old school. I still have a publishing deal that brings in some money now and then, but the truth is that most of my proper money earners were 30-odd years ago. At first I got lucky. No other way to look at it. I've not written for mega stars but I had some minor chart success with the sort of bands/artists you can't remember when you see them on TOTP repeats. If there was a world record for being in the room next to major artists but never actually meeting them I might win that one. My second world record might be for entering rooms recently vacated by said artists without meeting them. My memoirs would not be great reading - "Did I ever tell you about the time I almost met xxx?" haha.

But if I was starting from scratch today I just don't think I could make any sort of living from music. It's so much harder to get your music through to the people that matter. If you are a performer with a distinctive style and enough nous to get a significant following on YouTube, Insta, TokTok or whatever then you stand a chance. If you are a (mostly) non-performing songwriter then it's a tough world right now. So these days I write more for fun, beer and pin money.

Kevin, best of luck with the launch. The key to success will be finding way to allow the cream to rise to the top and the other 95% to sink into the noise.
I feel you and I totally agree with you that is hard to make any sort of living and the problem is that each year earnings decrease because of how the system works now. When for example you need to make thousand of streams for a monthly salary then what can I say. Thanks for the wishes and I will do my best to, if possible, help and change it for those who really deserve it.

User avatar
Kevin Sunray
Posts: 34
Joined: 16 Feb 2015
Contact:

31 May 2021

aeox wrote:
30 May 2021
I'm fascinated by your post, it made me think hard about this and I'm curious to see what your idea is for your website.

Currently my outlook on it is: (apologizes if a bit off topic)

-Be prolific in creating masterpiece after masterpiece. One bleeding edge, never-heard before track after the other and post to youtube or send to labels. Eventually momentum would be gained, only a matter of time, and persistence.
Yes and no. Having a masterpiece after a masterpiece,that never-heard before track it depends if that someone has the right network to distribute it and will listen it the right time which nowadays is kinda impossible without tons of luck. Uploading to youtube or labels means nothing because you may never reach the appropriate person or you may be an email between many spam emails. When I was A&R I remember not one but quite a few people that where sending the same demo over and over again, more than once per day until they get an answer. You understand that this is also kinda crazy for a human being to handle especially when most of the labels are a single person. And I know also labels that have demo submissions email but they never listen to demos if the artist is unknown.
-Have decent music but a GREAT "artist persona" or "brand" A lot of the time I think people latch onto the concept of a artist brand or track/song concept, more than the actual music itself. (I'm guilty) When I first saw a image of "Girl with Balloon" by Banksy, I thought to myself.. anyone could've made that.. right? I find visually impressive art a lot, that has no real meaning behind it at all.
I still appreciate it but there is something to be said about going deeper than that and trying to connect with people on a "deeper" level somehow. Or just relating to people, however vaguely it may be.

Both are very hard :D Breaking into the market means you almost have to be a jack of all trades, and maybe some luck? But you have to put yourself out there, not just post on soundcloud and forget about it or delete it, like I tend to do. I haven't even started on the branding part yet.
Of course, your general image is important and many times you have to be different from what you really are. Unfortunately there are artists around you who have neither talent nor good music but have the means to succeed without them. If 20-30 years ago it was 1 in 100 artists now it is half and that brings a large number of good artists out of the road. I want to change that because is very difficult to explore new great music and getting spammed by music that I don't really like.
In regard to submitting music to A&Rs. Ear fatigue, different tastes, lack of them, and so on.. All factors of course. I imagine they get tons of music that just isn't a good fit for the label or network, even though it may "technically" be a good track to many others.
To be very honest, there are no real A&Rs anymore. They are just a music audience, many times unexperienced young people that may have some good taste of music. They go to see how many fans you have and that matters more than your music. In many cases they exclude good music to bring on a friend to release his music. A&R is not that btw. There are cases of crazy amount of money paid to big labels for a release and I have heard it from big names on the scene and I was totally shocked.

The music industry has taken its eyes off itself and because we are going through a crazy period of advertising, things are out of logic but I believe in change. Everything goes round and round.

When I was sending out CDs to record labels, usually I was signing my music 6 months later and more. Of course Greece didn't have any record labels for the kind of music I was producing. Can you imagine it how difficult was to reach labels? Now a lot of people want to be signed within a week. The difference is that back then record labels tend to listen to all cds while now they don't so after a month you know the answer, if you don't get a reply.

In my opinion all you need is :
  1. Hard work
  2. Patience, patience! As you grow though patience may fade out
  3. Perseverance, always!
  4. Pure & Clean Mind
  5. There are no rules
  6. Do not listen to anyone but yourself
  7. Luck

So can we get musicians into a wider audience without so much marketing and just by their music quality. I think yes we can but it needs lots of work! Then everything is just a matter of time and music quality.
Last edited by Kevin Sunray on 31 May 2021, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Kevin Sunray
Posts: 34
Joined: 16 Feb 2015
Contact:

31 May 2021

motuscott wrote:
30 May 2021
40 virgins
the respect of my peers

OK, a pony...
sold
:shock: I didn't know that you sell Pony! Keep it up :clap: :lol:

Post Reply
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests