Video: Why Your Favorite Musicians Are Broke

[Yonatan]

Nothing new to this, but I liked the video.It makes independent road seem like an ok road. Not too bad working part time in school or in the grocery store, than being a one trick pony in the music industry. Or?

Would you go with a major label wagon? Is it a lot better deal for producers and songwriters than the artists?
Music "artists" seem to more looked as "products" by the business, and they are "owned"?
Some artist might be clever if they sign a limited time contract and then break off when they have got a name and followers,
and then start doing the production business themself.

Record labels seems to go very well in the streaming era, because of their deals with the streaming services and an often crappy deal for the signed artists.

Why Your Favorite Musicians Are Broke

Why Your Favorite Musicians Are Broke 2

Why Your Favorite Musicians Are Broke 3

[EnochLight]

I mean, if we're posting videos like this, I guess we need some levity to acknowledge the music industry is 100% completely different compared to 20 years ago:

But it also bears repeating that as of today, it has never been easier to be an independent musician/producer/whatever you want to call yourself and keep 100% of your money selling your music while having worldwide exposure and access to production tools that would have cost millions of dollars only 25 years ago. So... there's THAT..

[Yonatan]

But it also bears repeating that as of today, it has never been easier to be an independent musician/producer/whatever you want to call yourself and keep 100% of your money selling your music while having worldwide exposure and access to production tools that would have cost millions of dollars only 25 years ago. So... there's THAT..

Great background videos!

Yes, it is amazing what tools we have today. And if one is not the Jack of all trades, and all the endless sources of tutorials, teaching and inspirations is not enough, there are platforms available now where one can colaborate with others. Imagine what will become possible at 2030.
I see few reasons of benefits for a band or a singer-songwriter to sign a record deal. For certain type of personalities, it still can be the best way, but the independent road seems so much more fun. Yes, it still is hard to make it big, but if the % cut off is gone from a lot of costs, you don´t have to "make it big", one can make it small and still come a long way. I think more and more see the downside of the old time celebrity. What you might gain by being famous, you lose in life quality. Today you can reach out to many who are interested without having to be super extroverted.

[EnochLight]

I see few reasons of benefits for a band or a singer-songwriter to sign a record deal. For certain type of personalities, it still can be the best way, but the independent road seems so much more fun. Yes, it still is hard to make it big, but if the % cut off is gone from a lot of costs, you don´t have to "make it big", one can make it small and still come a long way. I think more and more see the downside of the old time celebrity. What you might gain by being famous, you lose in life quality. Today you can reach out to many who are interested without having to be super extroverted.

Well, to play devil's advocate - if a record label (hehehe... "records" ) came at you with a deal that offered you a big phat chunk of money up front, professional studio time with industry leading producers and mix engineers, and bank rolled a tour while giving you a cut - I think most people would be hard pressed to say "no". But that sort of deal just doesn't happen these days - or rather, it's extremely rare.

Back in 1980, Duran Duran literally had a bidding war between labels (EMI and Phonogram) that were fighting to sign them after hearing their demo tapes and seeing them perform at various clubs around Birmingham and London. Countless other bands had similar origins throughout the decades - right up until Napster appeared and helped usher in the new era.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if the money was right, I'd wager the majority of independent musicians would probably jump at the chance. Risks be damned - everyone wants to be a star.

[BRIGGS]

Greed sucks. : (

[full-of-life]

When people can’t smell anymore, it can be a huge emotional loss.
There’s still time. I could still run from this social media situation.
Internet has a greater potential for addiction than LSD.
Even monkeys fall from trees.

[platzangst]

But it also bears repeating that as of today, it has never been easier to be an independent musician/producer/whatever you want to call yourself and keep 100% of your money selling your music while having worldwide exposure and access to production tools that would have cost millions of dollars only 25 years ago. So... there's THAT..

Easier, to an extent.

But to play devil's advocate's advocate: Where is it that you get to keep 100% of your money? I'm on Bandcamp, technically free to put my music up and (fail to) sell it, but they do take 10% of those sales if and when they happen. I've looked at some of the "put it on every streaming platform" services, and so far all I've seen require upfront fees or some cut of profits - if you know any completely free services, please do let me know.

Even if i decided to go entirely independent of everything and sell CDs out of my garage by mail-order, or just sell digital files on my homebrew website, this wonderful worldwide access I have means that everyone else has it too, and so now I'm not only competing for attention with the people who can afford to outspend everyone else on promotion, but also with every last producer with a sound pack and hot VSTs who can figure out how to upload a file and blast it on social media.

Easier to produce the actual music to professional standards, easier to make it available, perhaps, more access to communication - but not so much easier to get noticed.

[EnochLight]

Easier, to an extent.

But to play devil's advocate's advocate: Where is it that you get to keep 100% of your money?

Right, Bandcamp, CDBaby, TuneCore, etc - while they all offer worldwide distribution, you do lose (insert percentage) depending on the stores you sell in. But compare that to a traditional "record deal" from decades ago, and most artists would keep a fraction of their record sales and live performance proceeds. You'd essentially be an indentured servant to your record company. In fact, spend some time in the studio that the label pays for, and if your records don't sell - you ended up in debt to the record company!

So yeah, while it's clearly not 100% kept these days, it's far far greater than the old days. Usually north of 65%-70% actual. I distribute via TuneCore, and I usually walk away with around 70%.

[Yonatan]

Easier to produce the actual music to professional standards, easier to make it available, perhaps, more access to communication - but not so much easier to get noticed.

Yes, that is the thing...
You still have to reach out through the fog, to let those find you who will think that what you do is worth supporting and spreading to others.
But the music industry big shots that are out there and promoting their artists, know well that xx amount of their artist discovers by their A&R, will not be of any financial use at all and they will be ditched after one single and maybe a E.P and in some cases after an album. The artist and the songs have to melt together in an convincing way. It is not that far from acting, the character and the movie have to be trustworthy in concept.
It is like a fantasy movie, we all know it is "only an artificial act of imagination" (like all art) but the quality and the popularity is in the overall coherence. Much is to do with the image of the artist combined with timing (and perhaps a scope of good luck). Nobody knows exactly what makes a song viral. It can happen to independent artists, and it can happen to signed artists, but these times has no certain formula of success, but off course, the more resources that can be put into production, marketing etc, the chances increase.

[Yonatan]

I see few reasons of benefits for a band or a singer-songwriter to sign a record deal. For certain type of personalities, it still can be the best way, but the independent road seems so much more fun. Yes, it still is hard to make it big, but if the % cut off is gone from a lot of costs, you don´t have to "make it big", one can make it small and still come a long way. I think more and more see the downside of the old time celebrity. What you might gain by being famous, you lose in life quality. Today you can reach out to many who are interested without having to be super extroverted.

Well, to play devil's advocate - if a record label (hehehe... "records" ) came at you with a deal that offered you a big phat chunk of money up front, professional studio time with industry leading producers and mix engineers, and bank rolled a tour while giving you a cut - I think most people would be hard pressed to say "no". But that sort of deal just doesn't happen these days - or rather, it's extremely rare.

Back in 1980, Duran Duran literally had a bidding war between labels (EMI and Phonogram) that were fighting to sign them after hearing their demo tapes and seeing them perform at various clubs around Birmingham and London. Countless other bands had similar origins throughout the decades - right up until Napster appeared and helped usher in the new era.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if the money was right, I'd wager the majority of independent musicians would probably jump at the chance. Risks be damned - everyone wants to be a star.

Yes, off course it is very tempting if a whole musical industry crew would find it worthwhile to put that much into your music. But the right match and knowing the deal inside out is a must today, having legal escape lanes out of the deal if the either part are not doing its part of the deal offer.

The value of big record companies, are mostly their muscles as marketing machines and contacts, and if needed all the inboard producers/songwriters, publishing experts and juridical staff. But it all depends on how much value the company sees in your potential.
Quite some artists are getting some initial focus, then better options comes along and the artist get left out in the cold while still are bound by a contract, so he/she cannot go independent. I suppose that bigger companies might have more resources to keep the artist at some minimal investment when signed, but the middle or smaller ones might not. I have seen artists become so happy when they are signed, they think it will be their ticket to success, but then in reality, they fall into a limbo. So it is very important which company the artist or band chooses.
I guess the best negotiating chair an artist or band can be in, is if they already have a quite big following and fan base, because that is what matters today when companies can not crack the code of who will attract a crowd and who will not.

[jam-s]

I guess the best negotiating chair an artist or band can be in, is if they already have a quite big following and fan base, because that is what matters today when companies can not crack the code of who will attract a crowd and who will not.

Today you're very unlikely to be even considered for a contract without an ample amount of followers or an already existing fanbase.

[Yonatan]

I guess the best negotiating chair an artist or band can be in, is if they already have a quite big following and fan base, because that is what matters today when companies can not crack the code of who will attract a crowd and who will not.

Today you're very unlikely to be even considered for a contract without an ample amount of followers or an already existing fanbase.

Heard the same. And it is a bit interesting that with that amount of followers, it might be a bad move to sign a deal, at least the deal have to be a balance act to benefit each one 50-50. I could imagine instances where certain record deal could take an artist or band from their current ok level up to higher opportunities. If the band has members that complement each other on different skills and knowledge, they could quite easily turn their band into a company with a financial plan that works for all members. But an outside company could bring in knowledge and resources that the band might otherwise lack, and thus make the band stick together. A struggling independent band (or artist) that never really gets any financial payback at all, might easier lose members because of life circumstances. It don´t have to be that they play to get money or even fame, but any endeavour that takes so much time and energy, sooner or later have to bring something more than just some cheap beer and meal on a pub. If you want to be serious, there must be some equal doses of success involved along the way or it might bring unending conflicts.

[plaamook]

Greed sucks. : (

So does being broke!

[plaamook]

Internet has a greater potential for addiction than LSD.

Quite right. LSD is amongst the least addictive drugs you can take. In fact Dr. Nutt, who was charged with the reclassification of all ‘street’ drugs in the U.K. back around the late 90’s considered it to be (Along w the rest of the trip drugs) anti-addictive because the tolerance slope is so sharp w the stuff.

[EnochLight]

Today you're very unlikely to be even considered for a contract without an ample amount of followers or an already existing fanbase.

Exactly, and it’s 1000x easier to get those followers and fanbase today than it was 20 years ago - thanks to YouTube, Instagram, and a plethora of other social networking services.

Not saying it’s easy, but it is easier.

[platzangst]

In fact, spend some time in the studio that the label pays for, and if your records don't sell - you ended up in debt to the record company!

Sure - everyone should read "The Problem With Music" by Steve Albini, which was written near 20 years ago...

https://thebaffler.com/salvos/the-problem-with-music

[selig]

Today you're very unlikely to be even considered for a contract without an ample amount of followers or an already existing fanbase.

Exactly, and it’s 1000x easier to get those followers and fanbase today than it was 20 years ago - thanks to YouTube, Instagram, and a plethora of other social networking services.

Not saying it’s easy, but it is easier.

BUT - it’s only easier for those who understand those concepts. Many musicians like myself just don’t “get” the promotion concept, self or otherwise. The current market favors those who understand how to use YouTube etc, how to build and keep a fan base, and how to manage their careers. In the past, musicians were not responsible for those things, let alone ALSO producing/recording/mixing/mastering the music let alone the videos and photos/graphics/web design required to build a sustainable career in music.
Basically the “power” shifted. The playing field still isn’t level, it’s just tilted a different direction...

[PhillipOrdonez]

And some may understand it but choose not to use it (self promotion the way it is understood nowadays) cause it feels wrong to go that route. I cringe at the sight/thought. I personally struggle doing the most basic things, and only do them because it is the very least I can do. I quit social media about 6 years ago because it all felt wrong and disgusting.

Did I shoot myself in the foot doing that? Probably. Am I happier for it? Absolutely. Did it mean I would not become successful? Not at all. I consider myself successful because I am living off of music and audio, doing the music I love. Maybe for some that's not enough, but "fame" is not a goal of mine anyways and neither is riches.

[guitfnky]

my favorite musicians are broke because despite having decent following, there's little market for them in the mainstream, thanks to an increasingly homogenous pipeline to get new music in front of listeners.

yes, that's a fancy way of saying I'm a crotchety old man, bitter about the state of the music industry, and radio's role in it.

[Reasonable man]

And some may understand it but choose not to use it (self promotion the way it is understood nowadays) cause it feels wrong to go that route. I cringe at the sight/thought. I personally struggle doing the most basic things, and only do them because it is the very least I can do. I quit social media about 6 years ago because it all felt wrong and disgusting.

Did I shoot myself in the foot doing that? Probably. Am I happier for it? Absolutely. Did it mean I would not become successful? Not at all. I consider myself successful because I am living off of music and audio, doing the music I love. Maybe for some that's not enough, but "fame" is not a goal of mine anyways and neither is riches.

I have same thoughts.
I have to look at constant posts on facebook by people who i guess just want to be famous . The self promotion is relentless and most of the time completeley unworthy of any reporting at all , The music itself is an afterthought and usally bordering beween generic and often terrible.. but again its relentless 'look at me ' stuff followed bu paragraphs of self proclaimed greatness

On a side note there was something that bothered me about alot of these self proclaimed 'artists' during the height of the pandemic was the constat reiteriations of them 'feeling exiiced' 'blessed' and all the other options on facebook's emotion dropdown list, with posts of the first 4 bars of their new sigle which they havn't even written yet and a plea for people to support them financially on bandcamp whilst posting constant pictures of their 14 guitars ,22 synths , 4 macbooks ...and vey little knwledge/talaent.
To me all this did was to show common people who had (and have) no money due to lockdowns just how deluded , out of touch and and narcissictic some of these people are. Alot of people reading this stuff had no money to feed themselves or pay their own rent and were subjected to these contant attention seeking ninnys looking for donations... and all they were thinking was ..why dont you sel the fourth guitar on the right and the 13th synth on the top row ..theres a couple months rent right there!
I thought it was an eye opener to alot of follwers of these people's accounts .who lets face it were forcefully invinted to follow their page in the first place .
Sorry for the rant everyone but it has been grating me for a whie now

[guitfnky]

self-promotion is the thing I might be the very worst at (of all the things I’m bad at ). I think my band and I have come up with some pretty solid music over the years, but promotion has always been a struggle, and it’s sad that being successful in music is largely more about social skill and networking (It’S wHo YoU kNoW—sigh) than about talent or originality.

[MannequinRaces]

my favorite musicians are broke because despite having decent following, there's little market for them in the mainstream, thanks to an increasingly homogenous pipeline to get new music in front of listeners.

yes, that's a fancy way of saying I'm a crotchety old man, bitter about the state of the music industry, and radio's role in it.

The current pipeline is anything but homogenous. People have a plethora of options to listen to and discover new music that fits their taste.

[guitfnky]

my favorite musicians are broke because despite having decent following, there's little market for them in the mainstream, thanks to an increasingly homogenous pipeline to get new music in front of listeners.

yes, that's a fancy way of saying I'm a crotchety old man, bitter about the state of the music industry, and radio's role in it.

The current pipeline is anything but homogenous. People have a plethora of options to listen to and discover new music that fits their taste.

I haven’t heard more than a handful of songs on radio that were worthy of more than a single listen over the last 10 years.

with music streaming, it’s easy for people to find great new music IF THEY WANT TO. that’s not the pipeline I’m referring to—that’s a platform they have to actively search for new music on, if they want to broaden their horizons. most everyone I know uses streaming services as a convenient way to listen to the stuff they hear on the radio.

[full-of-life]

«self-promotion» Realistically, however, it's a good idea to surround yourself only with "yes" people? It is not permitted hired a contract killer!
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