What is going on in the USA and stuff

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Boombastix
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Post 13 Jun 2020

Auryn wrote:
12 Jun 2020
I've gotten a fair bit of my opinion about this topic from listening to these two guys discuss the incident and related matters. I've timestamped it where some of the comments on the events that lead up to the incident start. I feel they are basically expressing the same sentiment that I feel: "the cops don't just drag you out of a car and start choking you, man!"
If I came across two Dutch Nazis discussing, I would not form my own opinion about the Dutch people as a whole based on just their opinions. So by making this extreme example maybe you can come to the conclusion that what two individuals are saying is not always a good reflection of all black people. Are those two voice representative of the collective? And perhaps since you don't live in the US it can be wise to listen in to more than just two persons who actually live here and not be so immediately dismissive. Yes they are black, but they are also well paid university professors, not exactly a typical and representative background. I think you should have considered that.

Candice Owen, a black woman, and a far right spokes person, is also used by some white people, as a "representative" of black people, in order to dismiss racial issues. Candice is of course very well paid to say what she says, paid by white people. Going back to WWII analogy, I am sure many Dutch worked hard to resist the Nazi occupation, but I am sure there were Dutch Nazi sympathizers too, it was in all affected countries at the time, not that many but it was. Again, not a good idea to use just their opinions and ideas and say it would represent all the Dutch.
And Owen's video that surfaced in the last few days, spewing out non-facts and such has been debunked and I have seen many black people just scream that she is not a representative of black issues.

To understand an issue one has to build up a broader understanding. I can tell you haven't, yet. But I suggest you do. And maybe even research institutionalized racial bias in the Netherlands.
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guitfnky
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Post 13 Jun 2020

plaamook wrote:
13 Jun 2020
guitfnky wrote:
12 Jun 2020

enjoy your white supremacy. I hope it doesn’t last much longer for you.
I knew we’d get there in the end.
If you try too hard to approach this thing from a different angle there can only be one conclusion. If you don’t agree w the mob and all it’s demamds, you’re a racist.
Fantastic.
:lol: right, dude, you’ve just popped in and added a ton to the conversation. so insightful.

sorry, but if it walks and talks like a racist trope, and you give it all the chance in the world to prove otherwise, but it still walks and talks like a racist trope, there’s not much guesswork left.

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Biolumin3sc3nt
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Post 13 Jun 2020

plaamook wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:37 pm

guitfnky wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:07 pm

enjoy your white supremacy. I hope it doesn’t last much longer for you.

I knew we’d get there in the end.
If you try too hard to approach this thing from a different angle there can only be one conclusion. If you don’t agree w the mob and all it’s demamds, you’re a racist.
Fantastic.

:lol: right, dude, you’ve just popped in and added a ton to the conversation. so insightful.

sorry, but if it walks and talks like a racist trope, and you give it all the chance in the world to prove otherwise, but it still walks and talks like a racist trope, there’s not much guesswork left.


White Supremacist lives Matter Too. Don't be "Gaslighting" on Me now!

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plaamook
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Post 13 Jun 2020

guitfnky wrote:
13 Jun 2020
plaamook wrote:
13 Jun 2020


I knew we’d get there in the end.
If you try too hard to approach this thing from a different angle there can only be one conclusion. If you don’t agree w the mob and all it’s demamds, you’re a racist.
Fantastic.
:lol: right, dude, you’ve just popped in and added a ton to the conversation. so insightful.

sorry, but if it walks and talks like a racist trope, and you give it all the chance in the world to prove otherwise, but it still walks and talks like a racist trope, there’s not much guesswork left.
I was just clearing my throat. (And jumping on and off planes and trains w a mask on n chit trying to get to quarantine in wales...)

I just don’t see how you arrive at white supremacist based on what Auryn posted. He’s asking questions from different angles and I think hes right to do so.

All the marching and phone videos don’t do much to answer how and why anyone becomes a so-called racist in the first place. Or indeed how an entire nation can develope it on a systemic level, if that’s what’s actually happened. And if we don’t try to understand what’s really happening there we’ll never solve the problem. It’s not good enough to just take down statues or fire a load of maniac cops. We need deeper answers.
What actually happens in the mind of a person that makes them see the world in such a way that they can devalue the lives of an entire race? We need that answer beyond the political handrail of offensive terms? Beyond ideas and fantasies about ‘winning’ like so many people have these days?
By my reckoning if we don’t all win we all lose. We turn the tables. Maybe we’re doomed to that fate, who knows.
But every time I see someone put forth a model that doesn’t over simplify it all by saying this person or that organisation is ‘just bad’ or ‘just whatever’...and god forbid they criticise the populist mob’s handling of it, they get tagged as a racist, a white supremacist, what have you. It just further polarises the world and produces the same zero result every time. Same thing goes the other way. The left right mud sling. I don’t like doing that shit. I wanna understand where people come from. And I think that’s where Auryn is coming from as well as others here. Prob you too. I just don’t get the mud sling.

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Auryn
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Post 13 Jun 2020

plaamook wrote:
13 Jun 2020
I was just clearing my throat. (And jumping on and off planes and trains w a mask on n chit trying to get to quarantine in wales...)

I just don’t see how you arrive at white supremacist based on what Auryn posted. He’s asking questions from different angles and I think hes right to do so.

All the marching and phone videos don’t do much to answer how and why anyone becomes a so-called racist in the first place. Or indeed how an entire nation can develope it on a systemic level, if that’s what’s actually happened. And if we don’t try to understand what’s really happening there we’ll never solve the problem. It’s not good enough to just take down statues or fire a load of maniac cops. We need deeper answers.
What actually happens in the mind of a person that makes them see the world in such a way that they can devalue the lives of an entire race? We need that answer beyond the political handrail of offensive terms? Beyond ideas and fantasies about ‘winning’ like so many people have these days?
By my reckoning if we don’t all win we all lose. We turn the tables. Maybe we’re doomed to that fate, who knows.
But every time I see someone put forth a model that doesn’t over simplify it all by saying this person or that organisation is ‘just bad’ or ‘just whatever’...and god forbid they criticise the populist mob’s handling of it, they get tagged as a racist, a white supremacist, what have you. It just further polarises the world and produces the same zero result every time. Same thing goes the other way. The left right mud sling. I don’t like doing that shit. I wanna understand where people come from. And I think that’s where Auryn is coming from as well as others here. Prob you too. I just don’t get the mud sling.
thanks for sticking up for me man, it's really appreciated.

I don't know if you are from Wales or if you are just visiting, but as a token of appreciation let me just post a song here by my favourite Welsh band, which I think is pretty topical at the moment

other than that I'll just leave this thread for a while to cool down



lyrics:

[Verse 1]
It's easy when you know how
To get along without Biff! Bang! Pow!
And if I see you're fed up
I'll stop and give you a leg up
Overpriced unreal estate, surreal estate
The highest price they've hit to date
Creating new divides and tension

[Chorus]
You've got to tolerate
All those people that you hate
I'm not in love with you
But I won't hold that against you
You've got to tolerate
Some of those people that you hate
I'm not in love with you
But I won't hold that against you

[Verse 2]
This is a tale of two situations
Mutual world appreciation
Away from narrow preconception
Avoiding conflict hypertension
Non-phobic word aerobic
This was my domain
'Til someone stole my name

[Chorus]

[Post-Chorus]
Let's get juxtaposed, juxtaposed
Just suppose I juxtapose with you
(I wanna get juxtaposed with you)
~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-~-.-
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plaamook
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Post 13 Jun 2020

Auryn wrote:
13 Jun 2020
plaamook wrote:
13 Jun 2020
I was just clearing my throat. (And jumping on and off planes and trains w a mask on n chit trying to get to quarantine in wales...)

I just don’t see how you arrive at white supremacist based on what Auryn posted. He’s asking questions from different angles and I think hes right to do so.

All the marching and phone videos don’t do much to answer how and why anyone becomes a so-called racist in the first place. Or indeed how an entire nation can develope it on a systemic level, if that’s what’s actually happened. And if we don’t try to understand what’s really happening there we’ll never solve the problem. It’s not good enough to just take down statues or fire a load of maniac cops. We need deeper answers.
What actually happens in the mind of a person that makes them see the world in such a way that they can devalue the lives of an entire race? We need that answer beyond the political handrail of offensive terms? Beyond ideas and fantasies about ‘winning’ like so many people have these days?
By my reckoning if we don’t all win we all lose. We turn the tables. Maybe we’re doomed to that fate, who knows.
But every time I see someone put forth a model that doesn’t over simplify it all by saying this person or that organisation is ‘just bad’ or ‘just whatever’...and god forbid they criticise the populist mob’s handling of it, they get tagged as a racist, a white supremacist, what have you. It just further polarises the world and produces the same zero result every time. Same thing goes the other way. The left right mud sling. I don’t like doing that shit. I wanna understand where people come from. And I think that’s where Auryn is coming from as well as others here. Prob you too. I just don’t get the mud sling.
thanks for sticking up for me man, it's really appreciated.

I don't know if you are from Wales or if you are just visiting, but as a token of appreciation let me just post a song here by my favourite Welsh band, which I think is pretty topical at the moment

other than that I'll just leave this thread for a while to cool down



lyrics:

[Verse 1]
It's easy when you know how
To get along without Biff! Bang! Pow!
And if I see you're fed up
I'll stop and give you a leg up
Overpriced unreal estate, surreal estate
The highest price they've hit to date
Creating new divides and tension

[Chorus]
You've got to tolerate
All those people that you hate
I'm not in love with you
But I won't hold that against you
You've got to tolerate
Some of those people that you hate
I'm not in love with you
But I won't hold that against you

[Verse 2]
This is a tale of two situations
Mutual world appreciation
Away from narrow preconception
Avoiding conflict hypertension
Non-phobic word aerobic
This was my domain
'Til someone stole my name

[Chorus]

[Post-Chorus]
Let's get juxtaposed, juxtaposed
Just suppose I juxtapose with you
(I wanna get juxtaposed with you)
No problem.

I’m not welsh but I am staying w some friends here for a bit. Working out here.

However, wales seems to own a band w my new fav band name. I’ve not heard em but I saw their sticker on a petrol pump. They’re called (wait for it)
Spam Javelin and the crack whores of Betws Garmon
Which is hilarious because Betws Garmon is barely a village. More a large sheep farm!

Wales is great. But I get the plight of their song. No easy answer to that one.

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guitfnky
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Post 13 Jun 2020

this kumbaya bullshit where “all we need to do is try to understand one another more, and all will be right with the world. your unicorn is in the mail!” is just that—meaningless bullshit. makes us feel good to think that, but it’s useless.

rational people can try to convince the ignorant of their ignorance. ignorant people can try to convince the rational of their rationality. but either way, there’s only so much effort you can put in before you see that someone isn’t going to budge. at that point, whichever side you’re on, the only thing left is to acknowledge it’s a lost cause and call the thing what it is.

in this case, spouting racist talking points and dismissing all the rest makes it awfully clear. and so I called the thing what it is.

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plaamook
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Location: probably underwater

Post 13 Jun 2020

guitfnky wrote:
13 Jun 2020
this kumbaya bullshit where “all we need to do is try to understand one another more, and all will be right with the world. your unicorn is in the mail!” is just that—meaningless bullshit. makes us feel good to think that, but it’s useless.

rational people can try to convince the ignorant of their ignorance. ignorant people can try to convince the rational of their rationality. but either way, there’s only so much effort you can put in before you see that someone isn’t going to budge. at that point, whichever side you’re on, the only thing left is to acknowledge it’s a lost cause and call the thing what it is.

in this case, spouting racist talking points and dismissing all the rest makes it awfully clear. and so I called the thing what it is.
That’s great. My daughter collects unicorns.

Guess you’re kinda proof of your own point then eh?

I’m outta here. See ya’ll in another thread

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guitfnky
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Post 13 Jun 2020

plaamook wrote:
13 Jun 2020
Guess you’re kinda proof of your own point then eh?
absolutely, 100%.

I’ll take part of the “liberal mob” over racist every single time.

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Auryn
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Location: La Mancha

Post 13 Jun 2020

Boombastix wrote:
13 Jun 2020
If I came across two Dutch Nazis discussing, I would not form my own opinion about the Dutch people as a whole based on just their opinions. So by making this extreme example maybe you can come to the conclusion that what two individuals are saying is not always a good reflection of all black people. Are those two voice representative of the collective? And perhaps since you don't live in the US it can be wise to listen in to more than just two persons who actually live here and not be so immediately dismissive. Yes they are black, but they are also well paid university professors, not exactly a typical and representative background. I think you should have considered that.

Candice Owen, a black woman, and a far right spokes person, is also used by some white people, as a "representative" of black people, in order to dismiss racial issues. Candice is of course very well paid to say what she says, paid by white people. Going back to WWII analogy, I am sure many Dutch worked hard to resist the Nazi occupation, but I am sure there were Dutch Nazi sympathizers too, it was in all affected countries at the time, not that many but it was. Again, not a good idea to use just their opinions and ideas and say it would represent all the Dutch.
And Owen's video that surfaced in the last few days, spewing out non-facts and such has been debunked and I have seen many black people just scream that she is not a representative of black issues.

To understand an issue one has to build up a broader understanding. I can tell you haven't, yet. But I suggest you do. And maybe even research institutionalized racial bias in the Netherlands.
Well now that I've cooled down a bit I'll respond to this seems you seem to be willing to engage me in good faith, even though I could do without the condescending tone

Obviously I understand that Glenn Loury and John McWhorter don't speak for all black people, they speak only for themselves. I don't think there's anybody that speaks for 'black people' as I would consider that an extremely diverse group of people who have little in common other than the colour of their skin. I feel you shouldn't bandy around the 'Nazi' equivocations so readily though, that is kind of out of line. Glenn Loury and John McWhorter podcast on the website/youtube channel "Bloggingheads" which is a long-standing platform for conversations and interviews. It's owned by Robert Wright, an american journalist/writer who I respect a great deal. He currently publishes two newsletters, one is "mindful resistance" which is dedicated to non-violent opposition of the Trump administration, and one is the "non-zero newsletter" which is dedicated to spiritual/philosophical matters with an emphasis on combating the zero-sum thinking that is endemic to capitalism/materialism (Wright is a Buddhist). I probably don't have to explain to you what his political leanings are , and if he considers Glenn and John honest enough brokers to be on his site I will trust him in that.
https://www.youtube.com/user/Bloggingheads

I've also listened to this interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEtuln6zesI with Glenn Loury, which I found to be one of the best, most interesting interviews I've heard online so far. Glenn talks about his career as a 'token black person' in the Reagan administration, how he was ousted from the republican party for having an affair, became politically homeless, dabbled with drugs and the seedier side of society (living a double life essentially) and his views on blackness and how it has influenced his life. It's an exceptionally honest and incisive interview, and it gave me the impression of a guy who definitely been around the block in life. Hardly the sheltered college professor you seem to assume he is.

I know who Candace Owens is and I really dislike her. I don't agree with much of what she says, and I intensely loathe her style of talking over people and eradicating nuance just to rile up anger and get more views. I've also listened to some interviews with Ta Nehisi Coates who I assume you think is a better spokesperson for black people. He speaks very eloquently about the plight of black people in the USA and I understand his perspective. I find he comes across as a bit aloof and performative though, and I would instinctively trust a guy like Glenn more, simply because he doesn't seem so guarded and humorless.

My own political leanings are probably most in line with someone like David Pakman, slightly left-of-center. But I want to qualify that by saying that I don't really believe the left-right divide is very helpful. There are currently 13 political parties represented in the Dutch Parliament, which even includes an animal rights party. One thing I believe is very amiss with the American system is that there are only 2 viable parties which in itself fosters polarization and simple left/right thinking.
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jam-s
Posts: 1034
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Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 20 Jun 2020

MannequinRaces wrote:
10 Jun 2020
Maybe the polling was just shit and the actual amount of Trump voters was misrepresented. I forget the specifics but I truly believe people didn’t take Trump seriously winning and dropped the ball.
The US voting system is pretty bad and quite outdated. If you're interested I suggest some entertaining videos on the topic by CGP Grey:


+
(update)

and



whole series: https://www.cgpgrey.com/politics-in-the-animal-kingdom/
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace.

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EdwardKiy
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Joined: 02 Oct 2019

Post 25 Jun 2020

1. I used to be about 5 degrees left in my youth and now I feel about 5 degrees right. I still feel like the "truth" must be somewhere in the middle, but I always loathed the radical left. So far they have almost accomplished the same thing they did in Syria and Ukraine with riots and no-police zones, and didn't even bother switching up the steps. All that's missing now is some sniper to start shooting at protesters and frame the police (because there will be no police surveillance) to make it a full-scale revolution. I'm calling it. I really hope they fail, though.

2. The black community:
just 40 years ago had strong families, now over 77% black mothers are single.
Nonmarital_Birth_Rates_in_the_United_States,_1940-2014.png
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_12.pdf


Why? Because they don't want to share the welfare checks. This correlates precisely with how long the left parties have been in power. The system has been established for the black community (or any other minority - just like for muslim migrants in Europe) at the expense of the tax payers (including black tax payers), where a welfare recipient has nothing to gain by going to work, and so remains a humble (slave) voter for the provider. This translates into generations being born into state-relative poverty and getting no education, unless you count religion as education, which in itself is a beginning of an even greater problem in the future - an even more volatile and inert group to control by the left.

3. BLM is a puppet organization led by 3 racist black women approaching their forties who have never worked. Ever. Read it up. Aside from the book-burning (taking down monuments, films, talk-shows and even card games), they are pushing to claim race-preferential treatment, which will only exacerbate the enslavement - more welfare and laws that will make going to work even less appealing for the recipients.

Here's a random list of racist BLM "demands" they publish every other month that I just googled:

https://thinkamericana.com/blm-releases ... te-people/

It almost always contains gems like:

"White people, if you’re inheriting property you intend to sell upon acceptance, give it to a black or brown family. You’re bound to make that money in some other white privileged way."

"White people, if you can afford to downsize, give up the home you own to a black or brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty."

or

"White people, re-budget your monthly so you can donate to black funds for land purchasing"

Equality and mutual respect.
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EdwardKiy
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Post 25 Jun 2020

thought this was pretty funny:


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selig
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Post 25 Jun 2020

EdwardKiy wrote:
25 Jun 2020
1. I used to be about 5 degrees left in my youth and now I feel about 5 degrees right. I still feel like the "truth" must be somewhere in the middle, but I always loathed the radical left. So far they have almost accomplished the same thing they did in Syria and Ukraine with riots and no-police zones, and didn't even bother switching up the steps. All that's missing now is some sniper to start shooting at protesters and frame the police (because there will be no police surveillance) to make it a full-scale revolution. I'm calling it. I really hope they fail, though.

2. The black community:
just 40 years ago had strong families, now over 77% black mothers are single.

Nonmarital_Birth_Rates_in_the_United_States,_1940-2014.png

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_12.pdf


Why? Because they don't want to share the welfare checks. This correlates precisely with how long the left parties have been in power. The system has been established for the black community (or any other minority - just like for muslim migrants in Europe) at the expense of the tax payers (including black tax payers), where a welfare recipient has nothing to gain by going to work, and so remains a humble (slave) voter for the provider. This translates into generations being born into state-relative poverty and getting no education, unless you count religion as education, which in itself is a beginning of an even greater problem in the future - an even more volatile and inert group to control by the left.

3. BLM is a puppet organization led by 3 racist black women approaching their forties who have never worked. Ever. Read it up. Aside from the book-burning (taking down monuments, films, talk-shows and even card games), they are pushing to claim race-preferential treatment, which will only exacerbate the enslavement - more welfare and laws that will make going to work even less appealing for the recipients.

Here's a random list of racist BLM "demands" they publish every other month that I just googled:

https://thinkamericana.com/blm-releases ... te-people/

It almost always contains gems like:

"White people, if you’re inheriting property you intend to sell upon acceptance, give it to a black or brown family. You’re bound to make that money in some other white privileged way."

"White people, if you can afford to downsize, give up the home you own to a black or brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty."

or

"White people, re-budget your monthly so you can donate to black funds for land purchasing"

Equality and mutual respect.
Super dubious link - who is Think Americana? Why not link directly to BLM if as you claim BLM posted these quotes? As far as I can find, the women who made these quotes is not a founder of the BLM movement. She appears to be a co-founder of a Louisville BLM group, and I have no idea if there is ANY affiliation to the main group - do you? FWIW, every time I found this quote online it says "BLM FOUNDER" or "CO-FOUNDER" or similar. She is not one of the BLM co-founders, period.

As for the founders not having worked a day in their lives (are you resurrecting the "welfare queen" myth?), I call total BS and ask you to PLEASE do your research before making obvious "non-factual" posts.
The founders:
Opal Tometi - She is the former Executive Director of the United States’ first national immigrant rights organization for people of African descent – the Black Alliance for Just Immigration (BAJI). She received a Bachelor of Arts degree in History from the University of Arizona and a Masters in Communication and Advocacy from Arizona State University. On May 7, 2016, she received an honorary doctor of science degree from Clarkson University. Tometi is a former Case Manager for survivors of domestic violence and still provides community education on the issue.
Are you suggesting she paid for all that college with welfare checks?

Patrisse Cullors - She became an activist early in life, joining the Bus Riders Union as a teenager. She later earned a degree in religion and philosophy from UCLA. She teaches at Otis College of Art and Design in the Public Practice Program. She also teaches in the Master's Arts in Social Justice and Community Organizing at Prescott College.
Another interesting case of a welfare queen who somehow also finds time to teach at two local collages…

Alicia Garza - In her teens, Alicia engaged in activism, promoting school sex education about birth control. Enrolling in the University of California, San Diego (UCSD), she continued her activism by joining the student association and calling for higher pay for the university's janitors. In her final year at college, she helped organize the first Women of Color Conference, a university-wide convocation held at UCSD in 2002. She graduated in 2002 with a degree in anthropology and sociology. Her editorial writing has been published by The Guardian, The Nation, Rolling Stone, and Truthout. She currently directs Special Projects at the National Domestic Workers Alliance and is the Principal at the Black Futures Lab.

All three founders have multiple college degrees, are active in their communities, and are about as far from what you claim as is possible. As for calling them racists, you provide absolutely nothing to back this up - let's stick to reputable sources and not sources like your link above that we don't even know the names of the people who are behind them.

Come on folks, if we're going to argue facts, we have to start with FACTS.
Selig Audio, LLC

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guitfnky
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Post 25 Jun 2020

it’s like asymmetrical warfare. can’t win an argument (or even have an honest dialogue) if you can’t agree on the rules of engagement. if one side is cheating (or in this case, refuses to acknowledge verifiable facts), and the other is following the rules (relying on verifiable facts), no one will ever budge. trying to convince those who have no use for reason to—you know, use reason—is noble, and all, but ultimately pointless most of the time.

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EdwardKiy
Posts: 281
Joined: 02 Oct 2019

Post 26 Jun 2020

So, I said, there's 1, 2 and 3. And you said "3 is a lie, 3 is a lie, 3 is a lie. Let's talk facts!". And last time I really wanted to explain to you my veiw on why the afro-americans are targeted more by the police in a modeled situation, but you just chose to ignore that altogether. Alright, "let's talk facts".

selig wrote:
25 Jun 2020

Super dubious link - who is Think Americana? Why not link directly to BLM if as you claim BLM posted these quotes? As far as I can find, the women who made these quotes is not a founder of the BLM movement. She appears to be a co-founder of a Louisville BLM group, and I have no idea if there is ANY affiliation to the main group - do you? FWIW, every time I found this quote online it says "BLM FOUNDER" or "CO-FOUNDER" or similar. She is not one of the BLM co-founders, period.
That was Channel Helm, the Louisville branch founder. There were casualties in that demonstration and that was the one that gave BLM a lot of momentum. There were only about a 100 articles about this. Just type "Channel Helm Louisville". BLM are a centralized group with funds and hierarchy - they are very much affiliated. That would be like saying the cop who choked Floyd was not affiliated with the police - he just worked there.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/black-li ... stigiacomo


BLM keep releasing demands frequently - demands for governments, demands for local legislators and just bullshit demonstration demands like the one I posted. There would be literally too many to list. The higher the power they appeal to, the more combed down the language.

https://cloverchronicle.com/2020/06/02/ ... ent-riots/

Here's an official one for canada: https://blacklivesmatter.ca/demands/

has lovely stuff like demands to re-write anti-terrorism laws, special "black students' boards" that would "advise" the official school and college boards, demands to punish people who don't agree with them, and demands for funds for the black community. A lot of them. They even made "Defund the police and redirect their money to us" a separate demand page.

https://blacklivesmatter.ca/defund-the-police/

The official US website has a main message - "defund the police and give us their money"

and below this: "Currently, we are fighting two deadly viruses: COVID-19 is threatening our health. White Supremacy is threatening our existence. And both are killing us every single day."

demanding money and not even blaming specific politicians or political powers, but the "white supremacy". Overtly racist, hateful and hysterical. Right there, below "sign the petition"

https://blacklivesmatter.com/defundthepolice/



selig wrote:
25 Jun 2020
As for the founders not having worked a day in their lives (are you resurrecting the "welfare queen" myth?), I call total BS and ask you to PLEASE do your research before making obvious "non-factual" posts.
Very glad you brought this up. No, I'm saying they come from decent families and have education, but never worked. Let's dive right into it.
selig wrote:
25 Jun 2020
Opal Tometi - She is the former Executive Director of the United States’ first national immigrant rights organization for people of African descent – the Black Alliance for Just Immigration (BAJI). She received a Bachelor of Arts degree in History from the University of Arizona and a Masters in Communication and Advocacy from Arizona State University. On May 7, 2016, she received an honorary doctor of science degree from Clarkson University. Tometi is a former Case Manager for survivors of domestic violence and still provides community education on the issue.
Are you suggesting she paid for all that college with welfare checks?
very nice, but none of this is a job. We can't check her on "case manager" and I do "community education" too as charity. I also have an actual job.
selig wrote:
25 Jun 2020
Patrisse Cullors - She became an activist early in life, joining the Bus Riders Union as a teenager. She later earned a degree in religion and philosophy from UCLA. She teaches at Otis College of Art and Design in the Public Practice Program. She also teaches in the Master's Arts in Social Justice and Community Organizing at Prescott College.
Another interesting case of a welfare queen who somehow also finds time to teach at two local collages…
Can you call it a job if she goes to a college twice a week unregulated and unsupervised to brainwash kids for her cause?

I am asked by my superiors to go to underfunded public schools to teach kids biology and physics, I do this twice a week in my time and at my expense. My organization gets "charity points" for it which then affect the amount of taxes they have to pay. This is highly unregulated despite of what it seems. You could say I have this-n-that-education and I teach at this-n-that school or college, but in reality it's NOT A JOB. Also, what do you think she would be "teaching"? Religion? Philosophy? Social justice? I think this is "public practice" and you have yet to change my mind.

Her Prescott College profile leads to a blank page: https://www.prescott.edu/academics/facu ... se-cullors

selig wrote:
25 Jun 2020
Alicia Garza - In her teens, Alicia engaged in activism, promoting school sex education about birth control. Enrolling in the University of California, San Diego (UCSD), she continued her activism by joining the student association and calling for higher pay for the university's janitors. In her final year at college, she helped organize the first Women of Color Conference, a university-wide convocation held at UCSD in 2002. She graduated in 2002 with a degree in anthropology and sociology. Her editorial writing has been published by The Guardian, The Nation, Rolling Stone, and Truthout. She currently directs Special Projects at the National Domestic Workers Alliance and is the Principal at the Black Futures Lab.
None of this is a job.
selig wrote:
25 Jun 2020
All three founders have multiple college degrees, are active in their communities, and are about as far from what you claim as is possible. As for calling them racists, you provide absolutely nothing to back this up - let's stick to reputable sources and not sources like your link above that we don't even know the names of the people who are behind them.
I am calling them racist because they scream "white supremacy". Because that's racist. I have linked to their official websites to back this up. There are also "other" sources - both reputable and less so, that expose them for what they are.

selig wrote:
25 Jun 2020
Come on folks, if we're going to argue facts, we have to start with FACTS.
I'm calling you on ignoring the actual things that mattered in my original post - points 1 and 2, the statistics I provided in earlier posts and me trying to communicate these to you. You chose to ignore most of it and went for the weakest and least-relevant points, which are based more on my subjective understanding and emotions. A classic straw-man defense. Well done.

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selig wrote:
12 Jun 2020
African Americans are STILL 2.5 times more likely to be killed by the police as white Americans. How do you explain away this statistic, and what is your motivation to say such things, unless you’re trying to suggest black folks are somehow more “criminally inclined” than white?? If not that, what?
Why not have the conversation, and debate the likelihood of 'black folks' being more 'criminally inclined' ? Perhaps examining all the available statistics, we might ponder the root cause.

I'll take you on your word that African Americans are 2.5x more likely to be killed by police.

Consider also that USA (male) prison populations by ethnicity reports that 35% of inmates are African Americans. That's also 2.5x the overall ethnicity distribution in society of 13% African Americans in society.

There were 14,123 murder victims in the USA in 2018. Of that, 6,088 were Caucasian, 7,407 were African American, and the remaining are of other ethnicity.

I have had long debated supported by statistics, with regards to gun control in the USA. I am staunchly anti-guns, but to remain open-minded I often listen to intelligent 'pro-guns' advocates. And in the last month alone I've heard three people state that a HUGE number of shootings (whether homicide or non fatal) are gang-related. Specifically African Americans and Hispanic/Latinos. It then stands to reason to suggest the implication that African Americans are in social situations (ie either gangs or non-gang crime) where they are in a dangerous environment. "More criminally inclined" ? It can be interpreted that way.

So with these statistics to hand, what is the root cause ? I can already predict some responses... it's easy to say 'but African Americans have less opportunities, so they resort to crime'. I'm not so sure about that, considering:

Of the 'richest musicians in the world' lists, of the American artists, half of them are African Americans. Michael Jackson, Jay-Z, Sean Coombs, Dr. Dre.

Of some of the richest Americans in Movies & related entertainment, there is a significant representation of African Americans. Samuel L Jackson is the highest grossing actor of all time. Dwayne Johnson* commands one of the highest salaries to get him into a film. If I were to make a list of most successful American comedians of all time, that list would include Eddie Murphey, Bill Cosby, Richard Pryor, Kevin Hart, Chris Rock, Dave Chapelle

In sports, some of the highest single-season salaries and/or personal wealth among athletes are to African Americans, such as Chris Paul, Adrian Beltre, Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, LeBron James, Tiger Woods*, Michael Jordan, Shaq. The list is long, so I'll stop here.

I wonder if these actors, comedians, athletes and musicians spend much time complaining about 'white privilege' or simply got on with pursuing their dream, without the burden of 'oppressed ethnicity' keeping them down.

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