What is going on in the USA and stuff

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guitfnky
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Post 10 Jun 2020

-008' wrote:
10 Jun 2020
why not point out or refute these incorrect "facts" then? If no one here directly argues the facts i present, and provides proof for me, i guess i should continue to hold them as factual until proven wrong. Im not afraid to learn new things.
because you’re the one presenting them as facts. it’s no one else’s job to educate you. if you seemed more open to information that doesn’t support a chosen narrative, it might be more worthwhile for us to try, but...

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-008'
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Post 10 Jun 2020

guitfnky wrote:
10 Jun 2020
-008' wrote:
10 Jun 2020
why not point out or refute these incorrect "facts" then? If no one here directly argues the facts i present, and provides proof for me, i guess i should continue to hold them as factual until proven wrong. Im not afraid to learn new things.
because you’re the one presenting them as facts. it’s no one else’s job to educate you. if you seemed more open to information that doesn’t support a chosen narrative, it might be more worthwhile for us to try, but...
then point them out exactly. Facts are facts. They can't be racist or mean or left or right. And you or i dont get to decide something is a fact ..we only accept it as such for ourselves based on examination. So lets go!

Here's a good site iv'e been reading lately

https://www.theflipside.io/

it presents current stories, but with both sides (side by side) from liberal and conservative media.
I love that and think its a great idea.
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MannequinRaces
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Post 10 Jun 2020

-008' wrote:
10 Jun 2020
MannequinRaces wrote:
10 Jun 2020

Trump won because voters are lazy and thought Hilary had it in the bag. Trump will lose this Nov. if people actually turn out to vote him out.
thats an interesting take, because if you're right....

They only thought she had it in the bag because the LEFT'S own MSM and their own polls said it every single day.
""Hiilary has 98% to win etc etc ""

Why did they lie continually to their own base/people?
Very interesting
Maybe the polling was just shit and the actual amount of Trump voters was misrepresented. I forget the specifics but I truly believe people didn’t take Trump seriously winning and dropped the ball.

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joeyluck
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Post 10 Jun 2020

This thread is completely off the rails...with conspiracy theories now? Yes, Trump is a problem, but the injustice and all of these issues have existed since way before the Trump presidency, so no need to defend him and try to make it about him as a way to deflect.

Keep up the fight against racism and injustice.

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Boombastix
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Post 10 Jun 2020

EdGrip wrote:
10 Jun 2020
I think what I struggle to understand the most is, however establishment Hillary was, why was it *better* to elevate a nakedly racist, sexist, solely-self-interested TV personality into the white house?
We are way off topic now, but just to quickly adress this. The American voters wanted a "rebel", a non-establishment person. Hence, easy win for Trump in the primaries. DNC had Bernie but they undermined him, so he lost the primaries. Hillary ignored the "blue wall states" and didn't campaign there, while Trump did it extensively, trying to turn them into swing states, he succeeded, and he won there. Trump never went to Cali, he knew it was a waste of time (has to do with the electoral college system), he focused a lot on states he could win if he focused hard. My personal observation is that the DNC leadership was focused on "breaking the glass ceiling", and wanted a female president at all cost. Guess they didn't have a female rebel, or didn't even understand they needed one, so the put the establishment up against the rebel - and lost - at all cost...

The film maker Michael Moore did an analysis about 6mo prior to the election explaining why the Dems would loose. Then he did another about 3mo before the election saying what DNC had to do to win. You should be able to find these on his web site. It is quite eerie to read knowing he wrote it prior to the election.
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Auryn
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Post 10 Jun 2020

I'd like to post this as it seems some much needed reason in these dangerously polarized times

Glenn Loury (economist) and John McWhorter (linguist), both intelligent and thoughtful university professors, both black (obviously), talk about current issues



some quotes/points to get you watching:
- police in the usa disproportionally target poor people. unfortunately a lot of black people are poor
- george floyd's death is not necessarily a race issue
- "the cops don't just drag you out of your car and start chocking you, man"
- claiming you are threatened by the mere presence of police is hysteria
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EdwardKiy
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Post 11 Jun 2020

.

The hero/victim: convicted felon, served time for things like breaking into people's homes and robbing them at gun point. Somehow his 2006 youtube videos of rapping "fuck da police" and how he's gonna be cokin' on his yacht when he finally gets his, escaped the public view completely - no views, no "RIP Floyd" comments.

"But it's not about this black guy, it's about systemic racism! The problem is the cop wouldn't even be exposed if not for the video or protest! ...because he's white!" Yeah, no. The problem is as old as civilization - when you put people in power (judicial, executive or otherwise) statistically there will be sociopaths among them to abuse this power for personal entertainment (not even gain) - they will murder, steal, rape, blackmail and do whatever they think they can get away with FOR FUN. And then there's the Lucifer Effect, also powered by uniform anonymity. Those are innate risks of giving people power. These people going unpunished for abuse has nothing to do with their race, but with our institutions upholding their integrity. Police cover up for police, doctors cover up for other doctors etc. I won't be surprised to learn that the cop has done a bunch of despicable non-racist shit long before choking the felon and co-incidentally, that there are black cops who are just as dirty.

Also, consider this: only about 15% of professional soldiers will shoot in the direction of their enemy in combat. Even less will aim for an actual kill. Most of us are not wired for killing. It is done by a minority, the same minority that will pillage and rape when(ever) a strategic objective is being taken by the military. Naturally, this minority will be drawn to places where they can abuse power. These are the same sociopaths as our cop antagonist (and also the choked armed robber "black victim"/hero) technically speaking, but why won't we make a psyche pre-test before taking these people to the army, police or the White House? We have known for decades how to easily do it in a 20-point questionnaire. Because we need these people - is the simplified answer.

With this whole "racism" situation I don't understand what is being sold to me exactly and why am I (or any other white) made to feel bad about my skin color? And what is a "white privilege" anyway? I'm white and just 4 generations ago my ancestors were slaves in Russia. So, do I feel oppressed? Do I claim compensation and whoever from? Maybe there's an office where I can at least claim this white privilege I keep hearing so much about? And how does it work - do I just get a skill and a job without resorting to criminal activity, is that the privilege? Or if I had one (whatever it is), how could I get rid of it? By giving black people preferential treatment? Wouldn't that be reverse racism? I also distinctly remember being beaten to a job opening in the UK once by a lady of color, despite her being less qualified and barely speaking any English, but fitting a "diversity quota". If my race card is supposedly the strongest - how do I use it? I have so many questions.


Let's then take a look at the BLM organization. Ran by 3 women - 35-39 years old, all educated, all from mixed families, all devout Marxists, and somehow neither worked a day in her life. Not even a week of degrading low wage work at McDonald's to make a sad story and to have "fueled their fight out of the struggle". Their profiles say they are "professional activists" since graduation. I was looking for a sad dark moment in each of their bios to have triggered their activism, but there's just nothing.


Whichever direction you take with this story, it's all complete bullshit.


And now tearing down of monuments and even films like Gone With the Wind and Little Britain... I know we're supposed to embrace our history and learn from it, but instead, let's just rewrite every part that we're not comfortable with, like little kids who can't deal with reality.

nazi.jpg
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Auryn
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Post 11 Jun 2020

EdwardKiy wrote:
11 Jun 2020
post
I agree or at least understand most of your points but I feel the "systemic oppression" image you posted is pretty tendentious. Or in terms of rhetoric, it's a straw man. Obviously black people aren't just talking about getting killed by white people when they are talking about "systemic oppression", there's getting harrassed by police, difficulty finding jobs, and in general just relative poverty. Those are real issues. Like selig previously said in this thread, it's very difficult to know who to trust in the current hyperpolarized climate, and it's certainly possible that an image like that has been doctored for political purposes. (it has references but have you checked them? can you?)

I feel what all of us should be doing now is putting out the fire, not fanning it.
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plaamook
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Post 11 Jun 2020

Auryn wrote:
11 Jun 2020

I feel what all of us should be doing now is putting out the fire, not fanning it.
Absolutely.
By Finding actual solutions to actual defined problems. As well as we can.
So much reacting to how people feel, and counter reactions.

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selig
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Post 11 Jun 2020

EdwardKiy wrote:
11 Jun 2020
[posted some charts]
Posting the chart that matters in context with this conversation:
Image
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guitfnky
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Post 11 Jun 2020

removing confederate monuments is not even in the same ballpark, county, state, or country as rewriting history. it’s analogous to suggesting that Germany has rewritten history by taking down Nazi symbology. pretty sure we’re all still aware of just how shitty they were.

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-008'
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Post 11 Jun 2020

guitfnky wrote:
11 Jun 2020
removing confederate monuments is not even in the same ballpark, county, state, or country as rewriting history. it’s analogous to suggesting that Germany has rewritten history by taking down Nazi symbology. pretty sure we’re all still aware of just how shitty they were.
and yet . they gleefully shout "Nazi" at every one on the right. Isnt that pretty dishonest of them?
joeyluck wrote:
10 Jun 2020
This thread is completely off the rails...with conspiracy theories now? Yes, Trump is a problem, but the injustice and all of these issues have existed since way before the Trump presidency, so no need to defend him and try to make it about him as a way to deflect.

Keep up the fight against racism and injustice.
No Joey. The country is completely off the rails. That is our entire point here. This upheaval, both the riots and covid, is perfectly timed and amplified just for our election. I watched another live protest last night and for 5 straight minutes they were "hey hey ho ho Donald Trump has got to go" This is 100% political.

For anyone watching this thread - notice that no one ever offers a different viewpoint or argument just:
"You're incoherent ramblings "
"Conspiracy Theory"
"Racist!"
"Nazi!"
"Use "Facts" bro!"

And they do it all without ever actually pointing out any "incorrect" facts, or offering their source of "correct" facts. That is the part i find most disheartening. Especially from someone like you Selig, who would scientifically hunt down the facts and provide the receipts, if someone heard a buzz in their speaker.
(and none of these "charts" from either side are worth much to me, sorry.)

How closed-minded and dishonest do you have to be to just shut people completely out, and never ever entertain one opposing thought, just because it comes from "the other side"? Is it starting to sink in yet that they have people in a bubble right now?

I find it incredible that the left has now been proven to be completely violent and intolerant. (Punch a Nazi, attacking lone women at campaigns, etc..) It's just wild to me. I WAS AN OBAMA SUPPORTER IN 2008. My grandfather killed mass amounts of Nazis in WW2, and i saw the proof and pictures and trinkets in his boot locker. But magically.... i am now a nazi racist, for picking the wrong candidate?

That is 100% LAZY and dishonest horseshit. Get a real argument. Let's dispute some policy.

Opposing viewpoint? They ban it.
Disagree? Shame and ridicule them up and down the internet.
The left are the new totalitarians. But they are so intellectually lazy that they forgot what real American patriots will eventually be called up to do with any commies and marxists and totalitarians. :P

The parties NEVER "switched". Democrats founded the KKK. Democrats filibustered the civil rights act. Democrats keep blacks contained in ghettos dependant on free money, to forever secure their vote. Meanwhile 60+ years of their free money and progressive policies do NOTHING. And here we are....

Pelosi, Schumer, Feinstein, Maxine have something like a combined 200 years in office. Donald Trump has been in politics for just 3 years .....and they have the audacity to blame him for anything? That is completely on topic, and has EVERYTHING to do with Black Lives Matter. (look where the black lives live, and who they vote for, and why)

People are finally starting to wake up to the "facts" every day.
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guitfnky
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Post 11 Jun 2020

-008' wrote:
11 Jun 2020
guitfnky wrote:
11 Jun 2020
removing confederate monuments is not even in the same ballpark, county, state, or country as rewriting history. it’s analogous to suggesting that Germany has rewritten history by taking down Nazi symbology. pretty sure we’re all still aware of just how shitty they were.
and yet . they gleefully shout "Nazi" at every one on the right. Isnt that pretty dishonest of them?
you talk about facts as if you care about them, but this 👆🏼 is not a fact. this is a belief. and an example of why many of us choose not to engage with you, or some others in this discussion. there is plenty of dishonesty here—of the intellectual variety.

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selig
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Post 11 Jun 2020

-008' wrote:
11 Jun 2020
And they do it all without ever actually pointing out any "incorrect" facts, or offering their source of "correct" facts. That is the part i find most disheartening. Especially from someone like you Selig, who would scientifically hunt down the facts and provide the receipts, if someone heard a buzz in their speaker.
(and none of these "charts" from either side are worth much to me, sorry.)
First, it's pretty sad to me you see my facts as "not worth much to you", but want me to see all of your opinions as facts (that's how it looks from here, apologies if that's not your intention).
Also interesting I presented a sound counter argument to other "facts" and you dismiss it outright. Is this your idea of "sharing facts and dissect them and argue points together to win"? Because I made a point, and you counter it "without ever actually pointing out any "incorrect" facts, or offering their source of "correct" facts" (your words).

My "facts" came from the FBI, you can check them out if you like, and you can argue what they mean to you (your opinion), but you can't just say my facts "aren't much worth to you" and expect us to be having the type of dialog you seem to be claiming that you want (I'm assuming I understood your idea of what a dialog means). I love a good exchange of ideas based on facts, but that's not what I'm seeing here - please prove me wrong!
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TrevaRanks
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Post 11 Jun 2020

EdwardKiy wrote:
11 Jun 2020
I also distinctly remember being beaten to a job opening in the UK once by a lady of color, despite her being less qualified and barely speaking any English, but fitting a "diversity quota".
Of course, that must be the only reason she got the job over you. It couldn't possibly be based on anything you said during your interview, could it? Maybe the examples you used or the answers you gave to the questions? Or how about your personality or your views? No, it must be because you're white and she's not.

I've interviewed a lot of people and sometimes you get a feeling about somebody and, no matter how qualified they are, you just don't want to work with them. I might know somebody who's worked with them and told me what kind of person they are, I may have seen something I didn't like the look of on their social media accounts, or I might just get a bad vibe. You can train somebody to do a job, you can get somebody a qualification, but if they're not the kind of person you want working for your organisation, you're not going to give them the job.

If what you've written is anything to go by, it seems like the employer may have dodged a bullet.

EdGrip
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Post 11 Jun 2020

"This is 100% political"

As opposed to what? Of course it's political! Racism is political!

Why are you suspicious that there is more activism and protest immediately before an election? Isn't that... the obvious time for activism and protest?

Also, it may have escaped your attention, but places other than America have had to deal with Covid-19 too. All places, if you want to be specific. For instance, here in the UK, we've had Covid-19 too. And there's not even an election coming up here.

You seem to be saying "Don't you think it's suspicious that there should be a global pandemic in the election year?" Putting aside for a moment that every event ever has a 25% chance of falling in an election year, how does that make any sense at all? Like, what do you think the mechanism there is? What are you, specifically, suggesting?

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joeyluck
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Post 11 Jun 2020

Image

And all of these monuments being taken down are not history, but propaganda. It's about damn time.

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joeyluck
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Post 11 Jun 2020

Netflix has made 13th free for everyone to watch by making it available on YouTube:


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-008'
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Post 11 Jun 2020

selig wrote:
11 Jun 2020
-008' wrote:
11 Jun 2020
And they do it all without ever actually pointing out any "incorrect" facts, or offering their source of "correct" facts. That is the part i find most disheartening. Especially from someone like you Selig, who would scientifically hunt down the facts and provide the receipts, if someone heard a buzz in their speaker.
(and none of these "charts" from either side are worth much to me, sorry.)
First, it's pretty sad to me you see my facts as "not worth much to you", but want me to see all of your opinions as facts (that's how it looks from here, apologies if that's not your intention).
Also interesting I presented a sound counter argument to other "facts" and you dismiss it outright. Is this your idea of "sharing facts and dissect them and argue points together to win"? Because I made a point, and you counter it "without ever actually pointing out any "incorrect" facts, or offering their source of "correct" facts" (your words).

My "facts" came from the FBI, you can check them out if you like, and you can argue what they mean to you (your opinion), but you can't just say my facts "aren't much worth to you" and expect us to be having the type of dialog you seem to be claiming that you want (I'm assuming I understood your idea of what a dialog means). I love a good exchange of ideas based on facts, but that's not what I'm seeing here - please prove me wrong!
Yeah. The other guys chart came from the FBI too!

but a few posts ago you were saying we should use our "own facts", not info gleaned from whatever external source.

so... which is it?
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Auryn
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Post 11 Jun 2020

-008' wrote:
11 Jun 2020
No Joey. The country is completely off the rails. That is our entire point here. This upheaval, both the riots and covid, is perfectly timed and amplified just for our election. I watched another live protest last night and for 5 straight minutes they were "hey hey ho ho Donald Trump has got to go" This is 100% political.
Dude you're ranting. The corona virus pandemic is not a political ploy. I mean I live in Amsterdam, and we've got a lockdown here too. Do you seriously believe almost all countries around the world, irrespective of political leanings or type of government, would implement economically deleterious measures if it was just some kind of american election stunt? Why would they, when they could keep their economy running to their advantage? I can believe that a lot of unscrupulous political opportunists are exploiting this situation, but it's not a hoax. Seriously. Just look at the godawful situation that happened in Italy.
-008' wrote:
11 Jun 2020
For anyone watching this thread - notice that no one ever offers a different viewpoint or argument just:
"You're incoherent ramblings "
"Conspiracy Theory"
"Racist!"
"Nazi!"
"Use "Facts" bro!"
More evidence that you're ranting. There are a lot of people in this thread trying to make thoughtful points, but all you can see is this?
-008' wrote:
11 Jun 2020
The parties NEVER "switched". Democrats founded the KKK. Democrats filibustered the civil rights act. Democrats keep blacks contained in ghettos dependant on free money, to forever secure their vote. Meanwhile 60+ years of their free money and progressive policies do NOTHING. And here we are....
Both the Democratic and the Republican party are guilty of egregious political opportunism and are irretrievably corrupt if you ask me. Any sort of partisan rhetoric like this is not helping. I would strongly advise you to calm down, get a grip, and find a nice place in the middle and refuse to let yourself be caught in this trap of INSANE hyperpartisanship.
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Auryn
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Post 11 Jun 2020

TrevaRanks wrote:
11 Jun 2020
EdwardKiy wrote:
11 Jun 2020
I also distinctly remember being beaten to a job opening in the UK once by a lady of color, despite her being less qualified and barely speaking any English, but fitting a "diversity quota".
Of course, that must be the only reason she got the job over you. It couldn't possibly be based on anything you said during your interview, could it? Maybe the examples you used or the answers you gave to the questions? Or how about your personality or your views? No, it must be because you're white and she's not.

I've interviewed a lot of people and sometimes you get a feeling about somebody and, no matter how qualified they are, you just don't want to work with them. I might know somebody who's worked with them and told me what kind of person they are, I may have seen something I didn't like the look of on their social media accounts, or I might just get a bad vibe. You can train somebody to do a job, you can get somebody a qualification, but if they're not the kind of person you want working for your organisation, you're not going to give them the job.

If what you've written is anything to go by, it seems like the employer may have dodged a bullet.
This is also seriously ad-hominem, below the belt type shit. Just take a moment to listen to that conversation between the two professors that I posted earlier on this page. Towards the end, John McWhorter basically admits that he was hired ahead of several other, more qualified candidates because of his skin colour. It happens. Diversity quotas are real, the feel unfair to a lot of people and can breed resentment. Simply saying "they must not have hired you because you are an a*hole" contributes nothing to this discussion.
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-008'
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Post 11 Jun 2020

EdGrip wrote:
11 Jun 2020
"This is 100% political"

As opposed to what? Of course it's political! Racism is political!

Why are you suspicious that there is more activism and protest immediately before an election? Isn't that... the obvious time for activism and protest?

Also, it may have escaped your attention, but places other than America have had to deal with Covid-19 too. All places, if you want to be specific. For instance, here in the UK, we've had Covid-19 too. And there's not even an election coming up here.

You seem to be saying "Don't you think it's suspicious that there should be a global pandemic in the election year?" Putting aside for a moment that every event ever has a 25% chance of falling in an election year, how does that make any sense at all? Like, what do you think the mechanism there is? What are you, specifically, suggesting?
You're not paying attention to me because i fall on the wrong side of your beliefs.
I said and will say again: Don't you think it's weird that the entire world is strapped down by a murderous mystery disease.... and at the same time all the people are out on street in protest? I find it unbelievable. It is literally endagering black lives. That was my whole take

-IF the disease is a killer
-and black lives matter
-and the left is pushing black folk into the streets
...
Well I guess we found the racism! great job everyone.

The conspiracy thing has your mind a little out of whack. You do know that when you are "The Media" that you can just sit around all day and wait for any number of things to happen (because ALL manner of things are happening ALL the time!) and then just fully weaponize them to your advantage right?

I never said the disease was fake or that .001% of cops arent racist....I just say the reactions to the situations are being manipulated. For the US i'ts because "Orange Drumph Bad"
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-008'
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Post 11 Jun 2020

Auryn wrote:
11 Jun 2020

Both the Democratic and the Republican party are guilty of egregious political opportunism and are irretrievably corrupt if you ask me. Any sort of partisan rhetoric like this is not helping. I would strongly advise you to calm down, get a grip, and find a nice place in the middle and refuse to let yourself be caught in this trap of INSANE hyperpartisanship.
That is the point. I am purple. The FAR LEFT is pushing all normal folks to the right. They are 100% using this stuff (racism AND pandemics) to their advantage.
I am NOT saying they are making or faking a disease or riots. I am saying they NEVER LET A CRISIS GO TO WASTE.

Remember:

-COVID 19 On the Scene!
-W.H.O. says human to human transmission not likely
-Fauci in Jan/Feb said "no threat to the American pubic"
-Trump bans China and they call him racist and say it wont help.
-Lockdowns must last till forever sorry guys
-Rioting and protesting is OK (but voting in person is not)
-W.H.O. says Asymptomatic Spread is very rare
-Fauci says nope thats wrong

maybe when all the professionals get their stuff together we the people can finally know what to think, right?
Until then ill keep questioning all of it. sorry if that offends you
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Auryn
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Post 11 Jun 2020

joeyluck wrote:
11 Jun 2020
Image

And all of these monuments being taken down are not history, but propaganda. It's about damn time.
This is also pretty unhelpful. Statues and monuments are not just propaganda, they are reminders of history. I mean should we remove/destroy all statues of Julius Caesar or Cleopatra? The pyramids were built by slaves and served to glorify the pharaohs that were buried in them. Should we tear them down as well? I mean, Haile Selassie, revered emperor of Ethiopia had a famine during his rule where up to 200.000 people died while he did nothing. Shall we petition Ethiopia to take all his statues down? If we're going to be tearing down monuments and statues of historical people that have also done wrong, we're basically done with statues period. It's a slippery slope you're standing on, and it leads way down to ISIS blowing up the historic treasures of lands they conquered out of spite because they're not islamic.

The history of humankind has unfortunately been written in blood. Destroying remnants or evidence of this gets you nothing but rubble and ignorance.
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EdGrip
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Post 11 Jun 2020

"the left are pushing black folk into the streets".

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