What is going on in the USA and stuff

[Proboscis]

According to a 2019 report from the Brookings Institution (a research group founded in 1916), citing 2018 US Census Bureau estimates:

-- Non-Hispanic white residents now make up less than half (49.9%) of the nation's under age 15 population

[Auryn]

Woah, I seem to have unleashed a statistics beast! With a rather large proboscis...

Anyway, we are mostly talking past one another I believe. When I'm talking about rising inequality, I'm not necessarily talking about inequality of african americans per se. Maybe I should clarify. I was arguing with Selig earlier on about the reasons for the enormous prison population in the USA, and among those reasons I would deem the general (wealth) inequality in American society one of the biggest culprits. Currently the USA are #11 out of 195 countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... h_equality (you have to sort by GINI 2018)

It's this type of inequality that I'm referring to. Even people who are considered right-wing like Jordan Peterson will readily admit that this type of inequality, run amok, will destabilize any society. Inequality breeds resentment, crime, corruption etc. Pointing to a small number of highly successful, extremely rich artists/athletes etc etc (of any race) doesn't do much to counter this point. I think the corona situation has unearthed a real problem here. A lot of occupations that are essential to keeping our societies running like nurses, teachers, police officers, cleaners, delivery people, soldiers, etc etc are highly undervalued in terms of salary/social status.

In my own country, The Netherlands, there is a huge shortage of teachers for example. ATM it's just an unattractive profession, there's a huge amount of regulation and responsibility, long hours, and the salary and social status associated with it is very average. The same goes for nurses, police officers, or caregivers for old people, for example. Market forces would dictate that when there is a shortage the salaries should go up significantly, but economic theory and neo-liberal government notwithstanding they never seem to. In The Netherlands this problem disproportionately affects people of colour/people with a migration background, since a lot of them work in these "lower-class" but highly essential jobs. I would venture that the same happens in the USA with black people. Arguing that there's great representation of minorities in the army tells me very little, since what I gather of US veterans is that their fate post-service is often pretty dire. They are poorly regarded, the mental health problems and suicide prevalence in this group are off the scale, as is unemployment and homelessness I believe. So what's so great about equal representation there?

In short: I think the social unrest that is currently troubling the USA and to a lesser degree European countries, is due to rampant income/wealth inequality. The George Floyd situation/Race is a motive/catalyst which complicates it, but the root cause is this inequality.

[Boombastix]

Since I'm getting obsessed with statistics, here's some more data.

The highest paid athletes of all time. In the world.

African American representation is 50%

For the USA alone, African American representation is 63%

Not 12.3 %, so there's definitely some racial inequality going on.

Source: Forbes

I have no idea what you are trying to prove for yourself, is it that this is a non issue?

So, you found info on about 20 people that fits your narrative. Are you planning to research the wealth status of the rest of the 41 million Black Americans too? I mean really what is your point? How about you look at the demographics of: accumulated wealth, available emergency cash, average salary, education level (collage is expensive in the USA)...

[guitfnky]

I mean, if many successful athletes and artists are black, that obviously means most black people are as successful.

it’s just basic logic, in this insane, bizarro plane of existence we currently inhabit.

[O1B]

Ode to ProBoscis:

If "manners maketh man" as someone said
He's the hero of the day
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say

Oh, I'm an alien, I'm a legal alien
I'm an Englishman in New York
Oh, I'm an alien, I'm a legal alien
I'm an Englishman in New York


Take ‘er easy ProB. Good Luck to you and your Statistics,
Legal Alien

[selig]

Here are some interesting quotes from the Pew Research 2017 report summary "6 facts about the U.S. military and its changing demographics"

-- Racial and ethnic minority groups make up 40% of Defense Department active-duty military in 2015

-- Blacks made up 17% of the DOD active-duty military


Another over-representation of African Americans. But 'close enough' to the 12.3% overall demographics to not argue either way.

By your reasoning, doesn't that ALSO suggest an under-representation of other groups in the military? Why are white folks so less willing to serve their country? Are you suggesting black and brown folks love their country more, are more patriotic? Or are you saying white folks are just plain lazy?

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." Mark Twain

[Proboscis]

I have no idea what you are trying to prove for yourself, is it that this is a non issue?

So, you found info on about 20 people that fits your narrative.

Friend, I feel that your comment is disparaging of me, as the messenger of some facts.

Please allow me to elaborate, if you don't mind.

I did not go to Google and type in "show me some wealthy black people".

I did not 'cherry pick' any particular subset of success by ethnicity or margianized minority.

The Forbes list of highest paid athletes is not color specific. Red and yellow and green, black and brown and purple, there is no pre-qualification apart from what the statistic is illustrating.

It's not *my* opinion that represents African-Americans as dominating that list.


Same goes with the latest Billboard top 10. I have no influence over the fact that it's dominated by African American artists.

Are you planning to research the wealth status of the rest of the 41 million Black Americans too? I mean really what is your point? How about you look at the demographics of: accumulated wealth, available emergency cash, average salary, education level (collage is expensive in the USA)...

What is your point ? If you have some statistics to support your position (of which is a bit unclear so far), then why not share them ?

I am not your personal data analyst.

Give me some numbers, and let's talk about it.

[Proboscis]

By your reasoning, doesn't that ALSO suggest an under-representation of other groups in the military?

Uhm what is 'my reasoning' ? I might kindly request of you, that you do not 'put words in my mouth'.

I made no mention of the cultural and ethnic diversity in the military, apart from the 17% African American inclusion. Just so you know, the armed services also comprises of hispanics, latinos and asians. Oh, and whites too.

Why are white folks so less willing to serve their country? Are you suggesting black and brown folks love their country more, are more patriotic? Or are you saying white folks are just plain lazy?

I don't know. ARE white folks lazy & unpatriotic ? It's not something that has ever crossed my mind, until reading your post. Not quite sure how you came to that conclusion.

[Boombastix]

I did not 'cherry pick' any particular subset of success by ethnicity or margianized minority.

Are you planning to research the wealth status of the rest of the 41 million Black Americans too?

What is your point ?

You exactly cherry picked, about 20 or so people, out of a total population of 41 million. Kinda the definition of cherry picking...

I asked what is your point - you did not answer, just replied "What is your point ? ". That is a nonsensical and substandard response IMO.

You asked for numbers, I did give you that, 41 million. So how do YOU make 20/40.000.000, or 0.00005%, relevant to the this discussion. That 0.00005% is yet another number number I provide you.

My original questions remains: What is your point?

[guitfnky]

If you have some statistics to support your position (of which is a bit unclear so far), then why not share them ?

I am not your personal data analyst.

Give me some numbers, and let's talk about it.

you seem to think statistics aren’t open to biased interpretation, yet you have ably proven they are. you aren’t—well, at least shouldn’t be *anyone’s* data analyst, personal or otherwise.

if you can’t (or worse, won’t) analyze facts objectively, and in good faith, then you have no business drawing conclusions from those facts—at least you shouldn’t expect anyone to take you seriously. it’s no different than the President saying Covid will just disappear. whether it’s a lie or just honest, red-blooded American ignorance, it’s false. the only difference is the degree.

[esselfortium]

Military recruiters target schools in poor minority areas because being in the military is marketed to them as a way to get out of poverty. That is why there are a lot of minorities in the military. Exploitation of the nation’s poor from groups who statistically are far less likely to have the advantage of generational wealth to inherit. Great military statistic, thanks for bringing it up.

[guitfnky]

it shouldn’t. not for that reason. the minimum wage should be reevaluated because it’s impossible to make a living in this country with a full time job at minimum wage.

inequality of wealth is a separate (though related) issue. I agree that it shouldn’t be possible for one person to accumulate that much wealth, because by definition, there is a point where wealth is so far skewed to the rich that the economy can no longer sustain itself. that can, and probably should be handled by creating market forces designed to help correct the inequity. raising the minimum wage wouldn’t do anything about that.

[selig]

By your reasoning, doesn't that ALSO suggest an under-representation of other groups in the military?

Uhm what is 'my reasoning' ? I might kindly request of you, that you do not 'put words in my mouth'.

I made no mention of the cultural and ethnic diversity in the military, apart from the 17% African American inclusion. Just so you know, the armed services also comprises of hispanics, latinos and asians. Oh, and whites too.

Why are white folks so less willing to serve their country? Are you suggesting black and brown folks love their country more, are more patriotic? Or are you saying white folks are just plain lazy?

I don't know. ARE white folks lazy & unpatriotic ? It's not something that has ever crossed my mind, until reading your post. Not quite sure how you came to that conclusion.

By following your lead… if I'm wrong, why not simply write what you mean instead of cryptic statistic posts? What DO you mean by quoting these statistics?

If you do not put your words here, I'm left to speculate what they are for myself. Please clarify what you mean to say when you posted those statistics so you can clear up my confusion.
[you appear to be trying to be provocative with your posts, and I'm just responding in kind so as to provoke you to actually say what you mean… you ask others to provide statistics to back up their point, I'm asking you to provide a point to back up your statistics!]

[selig]

So, I said, there's 1, 2 and 3. And you said "3 is a lie, 3 is a lie, 3 is a lie. Let's talk facts!". And last time I really wanted to explain to you my veiw on why the afro-americans are targeted more by the police in a modeled situation, but you just chose to ignore that altogether. Alright, "let's talk facts".

I didn't ignore you on purpose, I must have missed your reply. Don't take it personally, there is a lot going on in this thread alone, not to mention the world in general, that I'm not able to reply to!

Why does their employment status have any bearing on this conversation? I see some well educated members of society who are giving back to their community - what do you see?

[joeyluck]

This artwork sums it up perfectly. If you've been blind to what is wrong in the US, the events that have occurred in Kenosha, Wisconsin should help you to understand.



https://www.instagram.com/p/CEaQfOjH82P ... hare_sheet

[EdwardKiy]

I think most racist idea is to think minorities are poor
Militaries make great careers with lots of opportunities to step up ,
Artists and successful athletes must have an entrepreneur mindset to succeed that in most case thrived into their families since quite a long time,
Now the police have to deal With recurent patterns ,
Like im white but if I wear a messy hoodie I increase 30% to draw negative feelings from a police check

just like the idea of black people committing most of the crime. Both happen to be statistically true, though.