What is going on in the USA and stuff

[Boombastix]

I'm sure it hasn't been unnoticed to anyone that things are quite stirred up at the moment over here (The USA). And since we are an international community I hope it can be useful to share some thoughts about it. I stand behind #BlackLifeMatters 100%. I am totally against racism and in-justice. This is my perspective.

So, what does #BlackLifeMatters mean? First off what it does NOT mean:
It does NOT mean: ONLY black life matters
It does NOT mean: That other races has something too loose.
It simply means: Black Life Matters, too. It is a statement wishing for equality, political equality, equality in justice, financial equality, basically and equality starting point and opportunity, something the French fought hard for during 1789-1799, during which time The Revolution happened and oppression was purged from society (yeah, I know they chopped the heads off back then).
Following the start of the #BLM movement some started using #AllLivesMatters. However, the use of that phrase is characterized as a dismissal and denial of the racial injustice that BLM tries to highlight.

After the death of George Floyd an outcry is being heard from many in society, blacks, whites, and so on. This is the inequality of justice being addressed and white privilege. The protests on the street is a reflection of that. But mind you though, not everything is what it seems. Chief's of Police have already acknowledged that many protests are being infiltrated and hi-jacked by anarchists that seem to have an agenda to stir up riots and detract from the peaceful BLM message. Police have also reported that caravans are coming in from out of town to loot stores, a form of organized crime units. Twitter has shut down fake accounts belonging to White Supremacists groups trying to create divisiveness of the protests. In the midst of this protesters are angry too and the police is responding many times with an unacceptable amount of counter force. Many incidents have been documented of un-provoked violence by the police shooting rubber bullets and smoke grenades directly at protester aiming to hurt, including journalists. The FBI has established a group to investigate the police brutality happening during these protests. There is a great deal of complexity going on and it is very difficult to sort through sometimes what is going on, what is right and what is wrong. Good info is spread on social media as well as misleading info. Remember this is not a Black vs White war, it is an Everyone vs Evil war.

But what is white privilege? Is it bad, have you done something wrong because you are white, no! It simply means a white person can be out on the street and do not have to fear for their lives because of their skin color if confronted by the police, even when that person has committed a traffic infraction or petty crime. It means they will be treated with respect going in to a bank doing their usual business, or going to a restaurant for a meal without being harassed for their skin color, it means not being paid less because of your skin color, it means not being called the N-word, it means not being denied health care due to your skin color, it means that institutionalized racism in the police and judiciary system does not put you at a disadvantage, and so on. The black community wants equal rights and treatment in society too, basically asking for Black Privilege to co-exist with White Privilege.

The socioeconomic disadvantaged that black children are born into is another difficult issue to adress, especially as post WWII wealth is rapidly building up within a few individual families and corporations, the so called 1%, and the trickle down effect is just an illusion portrayed by the 1%. I think this video is a good illustration how children are born into this inequality - it is heart breaking:

[orthodox]

You need to have a positive political program, something more than just a slogan movement. Or it will transform into looting (just because there is nothing else to do) and die down in two weeks like it did many times before. Bringing police to their knees and toppling confederate monuments won't bring you any results, it just detracts from the real change that needs to be done to the system. I guess the Democratic party is of no help there as it seems to be happy with the current unrest and is already capitalizing on that.

[guitfnky]

You need to have a positive political program, something more than just a slogan movement. Or it will transform into looting (just because there is nothing else to do) and die down in two weeks like it did many times before. Bringing police to their knees and toppling confederate monuments won't bring you any results, it just detracts from the real change that needs to be done to the system. I guess the Democratic party is of no help there as it seems to be happy with the current unrest and is already capitalizing on that.

a positive political program...you mean like Trump’s republican party? I mean, that “positive” platform didn’t stop him from winning in 2016.

it’s super easy to say “oh, the looting just shows they’re not serious”, because it ignores the actual underlying problem. this is an incredibly surface-level response.

anyone who doesn’t recognize that black communities and the Black Lives Matter movement *have* been FoLlOwInG tHe RuLeS (insert pearl-clutching, here), and still have gotten nowhere, hasn’t been paying attention. it’s not okay to call attention to the racist systems in place by kneeling during the anthem at football games—if they’re protesting in the streets, it’s too far—it’s unacceptable for them to use any number of other perfectly appropriate ways they’ve tried to spread their message—and now people want to tell them to behave? how? someone, please tell us how they can peacefully bring about change, when they get shouted down by the idiots who insist, “no, not like that!” at EVERY turn, no matter what they do. how can they affect change without shouting back?

kumbaya...

[MannequinRaces]

You need to have a positive political program, something more than just a slogan movement.

It's more than just a slogan movement... ... ... wow.

[Proboscis]

The looters have made it clear in their actions that black shopkeeper's lives matter but caucasian shopkeeper's lives don't. I've seen several 'on the ground' reporters standing in retail precincts where storefront windows with signs saying 'black owned' are spared, while every other surrounding store is damaged and looted. Where is the logic in harming the livelihood of a white shopkeeper and his/her family financially, in times of already great difficulty. Selective decisions made on willful destruction of property for no other reason that ones ethnicity. Does the color of their skin associate them with a murdering cop, who also happens to have the same skin color ?

[Biolumin3sc3nt]

NO LIVES MATTER 2020!

[chimp_spanner]

The looters have made it clear in their actions that black shopkeeper's lives matter but caucasian shopkeeper's lives don't. I've seen several 'on the ground' reporters standing in retail precincts where storefront windows with signs saying 'black owned' are spared, while every other surrounding store is damaged and looted. Where is the logic in harming the livelihood of a white shopkeeper and his/her family financially, in times of already great difficulty. Selective decisions made on willful destruction of property for no other reason that ones ethnicity. Does the color of their skin associate them with a murdering cop, who also happens to have the same skin color ?

And I've also seen footage of black owned stores being trashed anyway, cops turning up, and then arresting *the owners*. Nothing is clear here. I know people want to be able to carve this up neatly and say this group is X Y or Z. But the reality is so much more confusing. And then you add into that the very plausible involvement of agent provocateurs who have no dog in the fight other than to sew discontent, white supremacist groups (like Identity Evropa) running hoax Antifa Twitter accounts organising lootings, disseminating fake fliers offering protection for a $200, etc, police enflaming tensions by firing at peoples houses, reporters, knocking unarmed people to the ground and running around shouting like they're storming a Taliban compound. There's a lot of anger, confusion, misinformation. And of course, straight up criminal behaviour which isn't so much political or ideological as it is opportunistic. It's the same mindset that makes people buy up essential supplies in the middle of a pandemic and price-gouge their neighbours. I mean sometimes people just straight up suck right?

So yeah there's some really horrible stuff going on but IMHO, symptoms of a sick society, and of a class struggle exacerbated by race.

[guitfnky]

The looters have made it clear in their actions that black shopkeeper's lives matter but caucasian shopkeeper's lives don't. I've seen several 'on the ground' reporters standing in retail precincts where storefront windows with signs saying 'black owned' are spared, while every other surrounding store is damaged and looted. Where is the logic in harming the livelihood of a white shopkeeper and his/her family financially, in times of already great difficulty. Selective decisions made on willful destruction of property for no other reason that ones ethnicity. Does the color of their skin associate them with a murdering cop, who also happens to have the same skin color ?

And I've also seen footage of black owned stores being trashed anyway, cops turning up, and then arresting *the owners*. Nothing is clear here. I know people want to be able to carve this up neatly and say this group is X Y or Z. But the reality is so much more confusing. And then you add into that the very plausible involvement of agent provocateurs who have no dog in the fight other than to sew discontent, white supremacist groups (like Identity Evropa) running hoax Antifa Twitter accounts organising lootings, disseminating fake fliers offering protection for a $200, etc, police enflaming tensions by firing at peoples houses, reporters, knocking unarmed people to the ground and running around shouting like they're storming a Taliban compound. There's a lot of anger, confusion, misinformation. And of course, straight up criminal behaviour which isn't so much political or ideological as it is opportunistic. It's the same mindset that makes people buy up essential supplies in the middle of a pandemic and price-gouge their neighbours. I mean sometimes people just straight up suck right?

So yeah there's some really horrible stuff going on but IMHO, symptoms of a sick society, and of a class struggle exacerbated by race.

the motives of individuals are always complex, and often unknowable, but in this case, the solution is very straightforward, as long as you understand the cause.

you’ve used some key words that are important. the bad actions are ‘symptoms’; those that would fan the flames are being ‘opportunistic’... it’s clear that the looting and rioting are an effect, not a cause. the root cause is hundreds of years of systemic oppression that have never been properly addressed.

if people want the rioting to stop—if they want the protesting to stop, the solution couldn’t be simpler (simple, not easy); stop giving them a reason to protest. make good faith efforts to improve relations with nonwhite portions of the community. listen, have a dialogue, and begin to identify and eliminate the racist systems and structures that punish them. do that, and there’ll no longer be any reason to protest, and no opportunity to riot.

too many good, well-meaning people are emphasizing the wrong problem, which was framed well here:

C41F1956-4FF8-443A-A2C8-AE985FC3078F.jpeg (127.35 KiB) Viewed 11374 times

of course, the necessary work to get there will be hard, but it needs to be done. it’s far too long overdue.

[NDKay]

I think Trevor Noah has some kind of a good explanation for what is going on.

[chimp_spanner]

And I've also seen footage of black owned stores being trashed anyway, cops turning up, and then arresting *the owners*. Nothing is clear here. I know people want to be able to carve this up neatly and say this group is X Y or Z. But the reality is so much more confusing. And then you add into that the very plausible involvement of agent provocateurs who have no dog in the fight other than to sew discontent, white supremacist groups (like Identity Evropa) running hoax Antifa Twitter accounts organising lootings, disseminating fake fliers offering protection for a $200, etc, police enflaming tensions by firing at peoples houses, reporters, knocking unarmed people to the ground and running around shouting like they're storming a Taliban compound. There's a lot of anger, confusion, misinformation. And of course, straight up criminal behaviour which isn't so much political or ideological as it is opportunistic. It's the same mindset that makes people buy up essential supplies in the middle of a pandemic and price-gouge their neighbours. I mean sometimes people just straight up suck right?

So yeah there's some really horrible stuff going on but IMHO, symptoms of a sick society, and of a class struggle exacerbated by race.

the motives of individuals are always complex, and often unknowable, but in this case, the solution is very straightforward, as long as you understand the cause.

you’ve used some key words that are important. the bad actions are ‘symptoms’; those that would fan the flames are being ‘opportunistic’... it’s clear that the looting and rioting are an effect, not a cause. the root cause is hundreds of years of systemic oppression that have never been properly addressed.

if people want the rioting to stop—if they want the protesting to stop, the solution couldn’t be simpler (simple, not easy); stop giving them a reason to protest. make good faith efforts to improve relations with nonwhite portions of the community. listen, have a dialogue, and begin to identify and eliminate the racist systems and structures that punish them. do that, and there’ll no longer be any reason to protest, and no opportunity to riot.

too many good, well-meaning people are emphasizing the wrong problem, which was framed well here:

C41F1956-4FF8-443A-A2C8-AE985FC3078F.jpeg

of course, the necessary work to get there will be hard, but it needs to be done. it’s far too long overdue.

That little flip/reversal is so simple, and so effective. Hard agree.

On the subject, I was watching old videos from Angela Davis and Fred Hampton this morning. They were making all the same points back then. That education and solidarity and intersectional/interracial class consciousness is paramount, and the question of violence is redundant in the context of a violent world. Fred got assassinated for it by the FBI. Shot multiple times in his bed. So when people focus exclusively on the looting and the violence, I feel like they're missing (most likely not on purpose) a HUGE part of the story that lead us here. Just being eloquent was enough to get you killed back then. Maybe things are a bit different now but I don't doubt for a second that the same powers conspire to tarnish movements like BLM, whether it's through misinformation or infiltration of groups.

[fullforce]

Yeah sure. Did you read how "unprivileged" George Floyd was when he was younger? He got all the chances in the world and still became a criminal.

[guitfnky]

Yeah sure. Did you read how "unprivileged" George Floyd was when he was younger? He got all the chances in the world and still became a criminal.

what does any of that matter?—let me stop you right there—it doesn’t.

there’s *literally nothing* that could justify suffocating a man—who wasn’t threatening anyone else—to death. he could have been a white serial killer, and as long as he wasn’t putting someone else in imminent danger, there’s still no justification, legal, or otherwise, for murdering him, full stop.

that’s not how the American justice system works. at least, not how it’s supposed to.

[chimp_spanner]

Yeah sure. Did you read how "unprivileged" George Floyd was when he was younger? He got all the chances in the world and still became a criminal.

What does that have to do with anything? Are you suggesting there's no socioeconomic disparity between whites and POC because one black guy who had "all the chances in the world" (source?) turned to crime? I've not looked into his past because...that's not my first instinct when someone is murdered by a cop. If they're detained and asking for breath and are being choked for almost **nine minutes** I don't care who they are, how much they have in the bank, what drugs they took that morning or how chequered their past is. From what I can tell he played some sports and rapped on some mixtapes and was somewhat of a name. Unless you know something the rest of us don't, there's no information I could find on what lead to the home invasion that got him arrested. Quite frankly I don't care to know because nothing mitigates or justifies what happened.

And it certainly doesn't change the reality of life for many POC. There's documented, real history in America of real institutional racism and discrimination, much of it still within living memory. If you don't think that has any lasting effect on subsequent generations and their prospects and opportunities...well I'm not sure what to say.

[fullforce]

What does that have to do with anything?

That means that there is no inequality. End of discussion.

Well one more thing.

Are you suggesting there's no socioeconomic disparity between whites and POC because one black guy who had "all the chances in the world" (source?) turned to crime?

2 Days ago he was the symbol of black people being denied everything. Now he's just "one black guy". Hilarious.

[guitfnky]

What does that have to do with anything?

That means that there is no inequality. End of discussion.

Well one more thing.

Are you suggesting there's no socioeconomic disparity between whites and POC because one black guy who had "all the chances in the world" (source?) turned to crime?

2 Days ago he was the symbol of black people being denied everything. Now he's just "one black guy". Hilarious.

so, no interest in making your case, I take.

[NDKay]

What does that have to do with anything?

That means that there is no inequality. End of discussion.

Whoaaat ? O.o

Really ? ! ?... yeah, keep your eyes and your ears shut


u dont see it while its blatantly kicking your eyes ? ( ok well... i dont know where and how you live, so maybe you really dont see it , and the web doesnt help with its bubbles, too )

[Biolumin3sc3nt]

And here's a thought...

[orthodox]

And it certainly doesn't change the reality of life for many POC. There's documented, real history in America of real institutional racism and discrimination, much of it still within living memory. If you don't think that has any lasting effect on subsequent generations and their prospects and opportunities...well I'm not sure what to say.

I don't think that's the main cause of the problem. Not the memory of institutional racism of some racist state of mind play the main role, but the existing socioeconomic disparity that reproduces itself through generations. If you erase the minds of everyone, people will still be poor, communities will still be living together compactly, and they will be recreating the same thing again and again since their childhood, because race will become a convenient distinguishing feature, like it is now for the cops. It has been 3-4 generations already since the the last racist law was eliminated and we're still there, nothing has been changing.

[guitfnky]

And it certainly doesn't change the reality of life for many POC. There's documented, real history in America of real institutional racism and discrimination, much of it still within living memory. If you don't think that has any lasting effect on subsequent generations and their prospects and opportunities...well I'm not sure what to say.

I don't think that's the main cause of the problem. Not the memory of institutional racism of some racist state of mind play the main role, but the existing socioeconomic disparity that reproduces itself through generations. If you erase the minds of everyone, people will still be poor, communities will still be living together compactly, and they will be recreating the same thing again and again since their childhood, because race will become a convenient distinguishing feature, like it is now for the cops. It has been 3-4 generations already since the the last racist law was eliminated and we're still there, nothing has been changing.

are you suggesting George Floyd died because of his socioeconomic status? you can’t honestly believe that a white man who tried to pay for something with a potentially fake $20 bill would have died the same way. I’m not going to list all the other recent examples of murdered black men and women, but I feel very confident the police officers and civilians who carried out those murdered didn’t ask about the socioeconomic class of their victims first. that’s fucking insane.

[orthodox]

I don't think that's the main cause of the problem. Not the memory of institutional racism of some racist state of mind play the main role, but the existing socioeconomic disparity that reproduces itself through generations. If you erase the minds of everyone, people will still be poor, communities will still be living together compactly, and they will be recreating the same thing again and again since their childhood, because race will become a convenient distinguishing feature, like it is now for the cops. It has been 3-4 generations already since the the last racist law was eliminated and we're still there, nothing has been changing.

are you suggesting George Floyd died because of his socioeconomic status?

I am not, of course. I'm saying that the cops reinvented racism looking at the crime rates rather than inherited that from the history. And that is the consequence of different average socioeconomic status and environment.

[Boombastix]

And here's a thought...

Not to you specifically but to everyone:

I watched some of it. Didn't really see them make a point. Yes, every socioeconomic level has criminals, every race, every gender, every country has criminals. We all know that, but the issue at hand is social injustice due to skin color.

Three or four white dudes aren't qualified to discuss black race issues, if they have the guts they should invite 3-4 black persons and have the discussion. If you saw 3 guys discussing female pregnancy issues and giving birth to a child issues and not even being father's themselves, it would appear pretty silly too imo.

It has been shown over and over that criminals will take advantage of a situation with protests, as well as opposing organizations like White Supremacist groups. The police has also stated they are well aware of this. These groups do it to detract from the root cause and fool less aware people.

My recommendation: Stay educated about the subject. If you don't understand the issue, educate yourself, spend several hours and listen to black leaders talking about the issues, get their perspective.

If you aren't educated in the subject of brain surgery my guess is you wouldn't start to argue about brain surgery procedures with random people and less so with brain surgeons. Educate yourself.

The battle here is that a person with dark skin is treated unfairly in society and can get killed by police over nothing or something trivial whereas a white person will not. Try to understand that, it is really simple. Killed vs not killed.

If put in court the judge will penalize a black person harder than a white person for the same crime. Skin color - injustice...

Ask yourself do you want to be a slave or free, do you want the same for others, what side are you on? Take a side. If you said free then educate yourself about the current situation of black injustice. Try to put yourself in their shoes, they are seeking the same freedom and justice as white people.

[rgdaniel]

As a comfortably middle-class retired white guy in a quiet almost-rural corner of Canada, with a paid-for car and a paid-for house well above the flood plain, I am deeply and humbly aware of the privilege all that affords me. Sure, I worked for it, but just being a white male in Canada means I had a pretty good chance at slumping through to this point without too much grief. The older I get, the less I take it for granted, and the more grateful I am. Anything I might have to say about the plight of the black man should be ignored. I am overflowing with empathy, but I just don't have the cultural context to justify speaking out beyond that. Even my metaphors are sheltered: I feel like a hobbit who never left the Shire.

[guitfnky]

are you suggesting George Floyd died because of his socioeconomic status?

I am not, of course. I'm saying that the cops reinvented racism looking at the crime rates rather than inherited that from the history. And that is the consequence of different average socioeconomic status and environment.

it’s a distinction without a difference. the result is black men and women are dying of racism whether or not the country has shifted from explicitly racist policies and systems to policies and systems that support racism only implicitly (wink, wink, nudge, nudge). the only distinction from a practical standpoint is that one allows for plausible deniability.

[guitfnky]

As a comfortably middle-class retired white guy in a quiet almost-rural corner of Canada, with a paid-for car and a paid-for house well above the flood plain, I am deeply and humbly aware of the privilege all that affords me. Sure, I worked for it, but just being a white male in Canada means I had a pretty good chance at slumping through to this point without too much grief. The older I get, the less I take it for granted, and the more grateful I am. Anything I might have to say about the plight of the black man should be ignored. I am overflowing with empathy, but I just don't have the cultural context to justify speaking out beyond that. Even my metaphors are sheltered: I feel like a hobbit who never left the Shire.

I feel the same. how much luckier could I have been than to be born a straight, cisgendered male to a white middle class family, in the most powerful and (until recently) respected country in the world? I mean, what are the odds? I’ve got it better than almost every other person on the planet, statistically speaking, and all through precious little intervention on my part.

[NDKay]

As a comfortably middle-class retired white guy in a quiet almost-rural corner of Canada, with a paid-for car and a paid-for house well above the flood plain, I am deeply and humbly aware of the privilege all that affords me. Sure, I worked for it, but just being a white male in Canada means I had a pretty good chance at slumping through to this point without too much grief. The older I get, the less I take it for granted, and the more grateful I am. Anything I might have to say about the plight of the black man should be ignored. I am overflowing with empathy, but I just don't have the cultural context to justify speaking out beyond that. Even my metaphors are sheltered: I feel like a hobbit who never left the Shire.

I feel the same. how much luckier could I have been than to be born a straight, cisgendered male to a white middle class family, in the most powerful and (until recently) respected country in the world? I mean, what are the odds? I’ve got it better than almost every other person on the planet, statistically speaking, and all through precious little intervention on my part.

me , too

Isnt it about what you have to say instead what colour your skin has ? If you talk about facts which can help the cause dont stop talking about them, like you did with your "wisdom" about your privilege.

Im also overflowing with empathy and i´m also white, but should that stop me for speaking up for ma family ? ( and i mean the whole world as a big family)

but i also get the point that its good to know when you have to stop speaking