Writing lyrics

[MrFigg]

Just turned 50. Been playing 35 years now. In that time, out of a lot of music, I’ve only managed to write three sets of lyrics which I’m happy with. In short...the music flows but I’m totally and utterly crap at text. It’s very seldom I focus on lyrics when I’m listening to other folks songs...maybe the Smiths but that’s about it. It’s all about the music.
Sometimes just the simplest words just flow great. I think it might be because I personally get too deep into trying to write as if I was composing a novel or something but again in short I can’t write texts I’m satisfied enough with to actually use in a song. Just wondered if anyone else feels the same or has any tips or hints which might help me change my approach.

[Seckin]

I think this may be about you not actually wanting to write lyrics about any a particular topic at all. Like you have that fine tune you came up with 6 years ago and can never decide what it should be about. I'm often like, does it have to be about anything at all? I mean, just let the notes flow right? Instrumentals! But then again, songs have lyrics right? So should mine. But then, what should this one be about? Love? A song on friendship? A ballad about uprising against injustice? About my little cat Steve? Umm can't decide.

When you don't have a reason to write about, you can't really write lyrics. At least that's my experience. It's because you're trying to write just for the sake of being supposed to write them. And that often doesn't work.

In your case, something tells me that if I commissioned you to write lyrics about, say, global warming, for this little tune I created, and offered a price tag of $300, you'd come up with excellent lyrics in a day or two And I'm not saying that you would be making it for the money, I just used the money example as a quick way of ensuring the transition from an idle hobby into a responsibility.

[MrFigg]

I think this may be about you not actually wanting to write lyrics about any a particular topic at all. Like you have that fine tune you came up with 6 years ago and can never decide what it should be about. I'm often like, does it have to be about anything at all? I mean, just let the notes flow right? Instrumentals! But then again, songs have lyrics right? So should mine. But then, what should this one be about? Love? A song on friendship? A ballad about uprising against injustice? About my little cat Steve? Umm can't decide.

When you don't have a reason to write about, you can't really write lyrics. At least that's my experience. It's because you're trying to write just for the sake of being supposed to write them. And that often doesn't work.

In your case, something tells me that if I commissioned you to write lyrics about, say, global warming, for this little tune I created, and offered a price tag of $300, you'd come up with excellent lyrics in a day or two And I'm not saying that you would be making it for the money, I just used the money example as a quick way of ensuring the transition from an idle hobby into a responsibility.

Everything you wrote there makes perfect sense. Really. Thanks for that. Excellent.

[1reasonable]

Seckin - what you say is so true - it also depends on what the tune evokes in your head when you listen to it - lots of famous lyrics down the years have been pure poppy nonsense. But they have the knack of sticking in your head. If you listen to your tunes, what emotions do they evoke? Is it a sad melancholy feeling, or a bright happy one? Many famous pop composers have said that it’s much harder to come up with a bright optimistic song then a sad one. My own trouble is, I can appreciate the theory, but I’ve never been able to come up with lyrics or songs of my own! I find that when I start, sooner or later as I’m meandering through the melody it reminds me of a song I’ve heard before and I abandon it, or just play the song! Same with a lot of chord progressions even! I’m just a big defeatist! You need to be the kind of person that can evoke emotional reactions and sustain them to write the lyrics. There are many famous instrumentalist musicians out there who have never done this, but find satisfaction in the instrumental compositions they write. I don’t think you can force these things - eg Elton John famously re-united with Bernie Taupin. Perhaps what you need to explore is finding your own lyricist? Elton has said many times that he couldn’t write the music he does without the lyrics first. Just sayin’!

[Ulpu]

There's nothing wrong making instrumental music. Instrumental music can bring very deep emotions - just the melodies, sounds...
And many many places need instrumental music (movies, games... people). So if you don't feel like the vocals are your thing, that is just fine! And! If you feel like you want to add vocals, you could always try to collaborate with someone who writes vocals but isn't really good at making "music".

[Fotu]

Check out the book 'Tunesmith' by Jimmy Webb... though it's 22 years old it provdes great insights and tips about writing both lyrics and music. One take-away: good lyrics don't necessarily come only from some deeply felt personal catharsis... they can also come from germ ideas appearing through simple daily life observations, that can then be developed with acquirable skills. (And I also struggle mightily with lyric writting, including the 'getting started' part!)

[orthodox]

A nice piece of lyrics for advertising some road diner back in 1966:

[Seckin]

I think this may be about you not actually wanting to write lyrics about any a particular topic at all. Like you have that fine tune you came up with 6 years ago and can never decide what it should be about. I'm often like, does it have to be about anything at all? I mean, just let the notes flow right? Instrumentals! But then again, songs have lyrics right? So should mine. But then, what should this one be about? Love? A song on friendship? A ballad about uprising against injustice? About my little cat Steve? Umm can't decide.

When you don't have a reason to write about, you can't really write lyrics. At least that's my experience. It's because you're trying to write just for the sake of being supposed to write them. And that often doesn't work.

In your case, something tells me that if I commissioned you to write lyrics about, say, global warming, for this little tune I created, and offered a price tag of $300, you'd come up with excellent lyrics in a day or two And I'm not saying that you would be making it for the money, I just used the money example as a quick way of ensuring the transition from an idle hobby into a responsibility.

Everything you wrote there makes perfect sense. Really. Thanks for that. Excellent.

Very happy to hear that it made sense for you too, as it made for me. If you don't mind, I'd like to add a few more points.

As reasonable1 also commented above, it's important what a tune evokes in your mind. Most of the time, a good, classy tune tells a story even if it has no words attached to it and if you allow it, the tune may write its own lyrics. Like, the first time you hear the song Bitter Sweet Symphony you suddenly have a good idea of what that tune is saying to you. But the problem with that regarding the melodies you came up with a while ago is that after hearing the same melody of yours for the 100th time, your ears become insensitive to what it says. You can no more hear what it says. And you force yourself to try to come up with ideas for lyrics in an artificial way, often unsuccessfully. And even if you do manage to come up with lyrics, and there's a good chance that you will not be able to notice that the topic you have kinda randomly chosen for the song is not actually represented by the tune. I think that this is an unfortunate way to kill a good song.

At this point, what a songwriter needs, in my opinion, is feedback from fresh sets of ears. Have a friend listen to your melody and ask them the emotions it evokes in them. Tell them to be objective and not invent stuff just because you're a friend. Ask a few more friends. Then more, if possible. The more the better. If you're lucky and there appears to be a pattern forming among the responses, you have yourself a story, a working concept that is very unlikely to fail. A win. You can then write your lyrics to make that story come alive. In the case that there is no pattern, as in, your piece did not evoke certain emotions, no problem, that happened to Beethoven all the time as well. Maybe you should keep that as an instrumental piece and try to evoke emotions with your next tune.

So that's how I think about it all. Hope it makes sense again

[MrFigg]

Check out the book 'Tunesmith' by Jimmy Webb... though it's 22 years old it provdes great insights and tips about writing both lyrics and music. One take-away: good lyrics don't necessarily come only from some deeply felt personal catharsis... they can also come from germ ideas appearing through simple daily life observations, that can then be developed with acquirable skills. (And I also struggle mightily with lyric writting, including the 'getting started' part!)

Strangely enough I’m a big fan of Jimmy Webb’s sons’ band The Webb Brothers. And also funnily enough I really like their lyrics.

[MrFigg]

...and thanks folks for taking the time to write your thoughts. It’s all great. Actually given me a new starting point. Much appreciated.

[guitfnky]

I find that some of my best lyrics come when I'm really just trying to work on a vocal melody. often I'll just be singing something (terribly), in half-gibberish, and when I find a melody I like, there's usually a word or phrase that comes out of it. it's really about the aesthetic of the sound, more than the content of the words, at that point (think about how a particular sentiment in one of your favorite songs would come across if it had different words to convey the same meaning).

if it's strong enough, that usually serves as the 'nut' of the song, both melodically, and topically, for me. after that, it's usually about building stuff around that.

that doesn't always happen though. if it doesn't, there's the tried and true method of just throwing stuff at the wall, and seeing what sticks. for me, this can take weeks or even months of trying stuff, and iterating on it. a recent example is the song I'm working on now, where the verse has a bar of 5/4 sandwiched in the middle of two bars of 8/4. I had a decent melody and lyrics that worked based on the weird time signature, but it always cycled back through right where the rest of the music repeated, and felt very transactional. it took a couple of weeks of playing around with different melodic and lyrical ideas to get something that flows over the top of the music the way I want it to. it's all about taking small bites of the elephant. small tweaks add up over time.

and to reiterate, don't be afraid to take a LOT of it (time). often, you might think something sounds great, and then when you come back and reread what you've got a few days later, you find it doesn't work quite as well as you'd thought, and you'll want to rework it.

as others have said, don't be afraid to let a piece of music be an instrumental, if that's what it takes, but also don't just decide something needs to be an instrumental just because you're having a hard time coming up with lyrics or a melody for it. most of the more interesting melodies I've come up with are the result of really pushing past that kind of difficulty.