ReasonTalk.com

plasticfractal wrote: ↑

07 May 2021

This will bring more people to Reason. It is a double edged sword, but if Reason can get more popular I'm ok with it. Stealing is bad, but getting more users will mean more success in the long run.

IDK. Up to version 5, Reason was and probably still is available all around the web space. Still there are „users” of those illegal versions, sometimes dare asking support questions but never considering buying legit license.

R1 was not cracked to this day. There's a cracked version of R10 that works perfectly fine as RRP or through rewire, but you can't save projects in it as a standalone. Of the working DAW there are only cracks of up to version 5. Now that there are trial/1-month free versions, crackware is becoming redundant as a marketing solution for DAWs.

plasticfractal wrote: ↑

07 May 2021

This will bring more people to Reason. It is a double edged sword, but if Reason can get more popular I'm ok with it. Stealing is bad, but getting more users will mean more success in the long run.

Reason was heavily pirated back when it used serial numbers for copy protection. I don't think that did the trick of bringing more active users into the Reason community.

EdwardKiy wrote: ↑

08 May 2021

There's a cracked version of R10 that works perfectly fine as RRP or through rewire, but you can't save projects in it as a standalone.

RRP is R11 and above.

miscend wrote: ↑

08 May 2021

Reason was heavily pirated back when it used serial numbers for copy protection. I don't think that did the trick of bringing more active users into the Reason community.

Indeed. My first experience of Reason was v4 bought from a market stall on the Khao San Road in Bangkok. Cost about $3USD.

It was actually my experiences with R4 that eventually brought be back at v9.2. Long after having discarded the laptop the cracked version was on.

However I'm probably in the minority.

RoryM0 wrote: ↑

08 May 2021

miscend wrote: ↑

08 May 2021

Reason was heavily pirated back when it used serial numbers for copy protection. I don't think that did the trick of bringing more active users into the Reason community.

Indeed. My first experience of Reason was v4 bought from a market stall on the Khao San Road in Bangkok. Cost about $3USD.

It was actually my experiences with R4 that eventually brought be back at v9.2. Long after having discarded the laptop the cracked version was on.

However I'm probably in the minority.

I've bought Reason just because I had it on some warez disc, WAYYYYYYYYYY back ye.
If not for those cracked apps cd's back then, I would've maybe not heard of Reason in the first place.

miscend wrote: ↑

08 May 2021

plasticfractal wrote: ↑

07 May 2021

This will bring more people to Reason. It is a double edged sword, but if Reason can get more popular I'm ok with it. Stealing is bad, but getting more users will mean more success in the long run.

Reason was heavily pirated back when it used serial numbers for copy protection. I don't think that did the trick of bringing more active users into the Reason community.

You can't gauge conversion rates from piracy to purchase by forum activity.

Propellerhead most likely has this data available.

Microsoft says you can convert pirate users and studies show that people who pirate content still make purchases (more than the average consumer in the case of music).

It's easy to build these exaggerated mental ideas of these "others" as being these lifelong scroungers that are just draining money and value and never contribute and make purchases. It's a terrible flaw in human psychology.

It's very easy for us to demonize groups.

I've convinced people who pirate software to start paying for it. It's easy when you understand they're not all blood-sucking leeches, and you are not better than them, nor do you have more morals than them. You just have different perceptions. Most people can only see the world in one way, which is why you cannot understand why someone who pirates software on Tuesday would be eager to pay for the same software on Friday.

So yeah ... those Reason pirates probably bought FL Studio and have lifetime licenses

There's also an interesting paradox.

If pirates don't convert to purchases (even when the piracy is later prevented as is the case with Reason), then it means they couldn't have been a lost sale because the lack of a pirate option would have just meant they didn't purchase it.

Buuut ... the easy availability of other pirate software could be harming Reason uptake (even more than Reason being cracked).

Think about it, if Maya could not be pirated, those who cannot afford it would have to find another modelling software to learn from. The availability of the Maya crack harms uptake of Blender and all the other modelling suites we've seen come and go.

Pretty mind-bending eh ...🤯

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Oh and Reason 11 hasn't really been cracked. They seem to have just emulated the stick to some degree, which is an accomplishment, but REs are 100% safe ATM and they can't even load Reason 11 files made by legit users

Everybody has different opinions when something doesn't involve them of their art/product/IP directly.

If someone used your music in a movie or commercial without your permission and without compensating you or crediting you, many people would sing a different tune. It's just digital music after all...you still own it...it didn't disappear...they didn't steal your computer and all of your hard drives. But I guess you could say those people using music illegally for their commercial will one day do it legally, so there's that to consider before you make a fuss.

Remember the fuss around Allihoopa and people having the CHOICE to upload their music, which meant anybody could use it freely, if you you shared it on Allihoopa? Everybody was suddenly concerned with their rights and they wanted to choose who could use their music and who they would collaborate with... Allihoopa eventually changed the rights of the service, but it's interesting to see many people claiming that pirating is part of the business and at the same time very concerned about their personal rights of their music or product.

I think it's ok to say kids do stupid things and many people have pirated before. But that doesn't mean that when you are more mature that you need to say that it is ok and be ok with it. Stupid actions don't need to be justified.

I think cracked Reason 5 got me interested as well. My friend used to make these cool Squarepusher style tracks with just a mouse and keyboard, programming crazy DNB drums. After having played around with FL, Nuendo and Reaper, Reason's interface just seemed like a fresh of breath air. So I picked up Record when they finally added audio support, and haven't stopped since, picked up Suite not too long ago. (My friend has since purchased the software also, got in around R7 I think and is now running R10 & still making awesome tunes, super talented fellow: https://elieltomas.newgrounds.com/audio)

Also my best friend and a band mate got in around R8 when he started recording our vocals and mixing them in Reason, so I've brought Props at least one new customer. And he has also bought personal vocal REs and some of my most used REs so he can better access my projects. (You should see some of his projects with gazillion vocal tracks, truly distressing stuff, definitely not for the weak of heart ;D)

I think I've pirated all of my VST purchases first other than having picked up Pigments 3 a week ago without even trialing (plus some Plugin Boutique/Alliance cheapos). My latest "victim" was Legend (in this case I had also trialed the RE when it originally came out so I had no other way of playing around with it). I was testing it for maybe one hour and noticed it was my go to sound for leads (and also had some cool bass sounds) after trying it just for a bit, so as soon as I could afford it, I picked up Legend RE (used one of my 50€ rewards, so it was only 49€, great prize!). I wouldn't use pirated software for published music though. If you can afford to put your tunes out there and potentially make any money from it, I'm sure you can first pay for the software you used to create it with.

Years back I used to be strangely obsessed about having all the VSTs, but I slowly realized that I had started collection sound possibilities instead of making something with the tens of thousands of sounds I already have. Limits and restrictions can be great at times especially with creative people that have certain tendencies.

I think it's cool that the tools are there for free to test out. I'm sure having a more modern version of Reason cracked would do good for the company and the people who might get inspired by it and eventually create some cool tunes (and some of them would surely eventually get in legally and invest in the whole platform). Or just put out a new Reason 12 Lite (Online Only) version for free and make enough of the features available without stupid restrictions.

miscend wrote: ↑

08 May 2021

EdwardKiy wrote: ↑

08 May 2021

There's a cracked version of R10 that works perfectly fine as RRP or through rewire, but you can't save projects in it as a standalone.

RRP is R11 and above.

oh my bad then. Haven't tried it myself. The comments I saw said it was working as a rewire.

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I'm not talking about "converting", I'm just talking about piracy.

If RS thinks it works, they can offer Reason for free and ask people to be honest and buy it if they use it commercially. If RS thinks piracy works for them, they can go back to the old, simple license key approach. That's for them to decide.

If you as a musician want to offer your music for free for people to use freely without compensation or credit or whatever... you are free to do that if you think that it will lead to them buying your music later. That is your opinion and choice if you feel it works for you. It is your choice if you want to take action when someone steals anything of yours and decide if it is wrong when someone steals from you.

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avasopht wrote: ↑

08 May 2021

joeyluck wrote: ↑

08 May 2021

I'm not talking about "converting", I'm just talking about piracy.

I never said you were talking about converting. I suggested you were NOT talking about converting.

I specifically said you were talking about the moral absolutes of piracy. Have I misunderstood?

joeyluck wrote: ↑

08 May 2021

If RS thinks it works, they can offer Reason for free and ask people to be honest and buy it if they use it commercially. If RS thinks piracy works for them, they can go back to the old, simple license key approach. That's for them to decide.

Has anybody suggested otherwise?

I specifically said that Reason Studios most likely have figures on this.

Has anyone made an argument that Reason should not decide what works for them?

joeyluck wrote: ↑

08 May 2021

If you as a musician want to offer your music for free for people to use freely without compensation or credit or whatever... you are free to do that if you think that it will lead to them buying your music later. That is your opinion and choice if you feel it works for you. It is your choice if you want to take action when someone steals anything of yours and decide if it is wrong when someone steals from you.

I don't think anyone has said otherwise. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Right, I think you assumed I was responding to you directly in my second to last comment? You had a lot to say in response to me and arguments to make in response.

I voiced my general opinion on piracy.

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As far as I can tell R2R have done a "proof of concept". They have gone far enough to be satisfied that they could crack Reason but have then stopped because it requires a huge amount of time and effort to get from where they are now to a distributable end result, not least because they say they would have to crack each RE individually as well as the main program.

It seems as though RS are heading away from the current authoriser method and introducing something new with Reason+ and, I assume, with future versions of the perpetual license. That will certainly attract the attentions of the big hacker groups. Let's hope RS have done well enough to put them off.

Anyhow, the absolute best defence against having your software pirated is to continually release significant updates. The hackers tend to release one version then move on to something else so anyone using a pirated copy "falls behind" with the updates. I know people who have found that aspect so annoying that they finally paid for the software! One of those people in particular had a good old moan to me that he had, um, "found" a large quantity of patches for a big name VST but that they required a newer version of the pirated VST that he had. He was proper indignant, even after I pointed out that it was like shoplifting a jacket and complaining that it doesn't fit you very well.

But I believe that piracy has very little effect on the success of software companies. Yes, people are using their products for free but most of those people would not have bought the software under any circumstances and, of course, some of them do. And, as mentioned by a few in this thread, in these connected days if a pirated copy of Reason was in circulation we'd probably see far more YouTube tutorials, fan pages and younger users, which would promote the brand and make it more widely known.

Yeah I think people grow up and learn as they mature. Just like many people might have gotten into fights as kids. It doesn't mean anybody as an adult shouldn't step in say something when they see kids fighting and tell them it's wrong. Even if the thought is, "Let 'em duke it out...they'll learn....we've all been there..." But then when people see adults fighting, they think, "What's wrong with these people? Has anybody called the cops yet?" Lol which goes back to my main point—people do stupid stuff and they hopefully learn...because when they should know better, it's a really bad look. There was another user banned from here who steals and sells ReFills without permission. All of that is just terribly wrong.

Well, I think I have a much better understanding of what drives the dynamics in these discussions now.

joeyluck wrote: ↑

08 May 2021

Everybody has different opinions when something doesn't involve them of their art/product/IP directly.

The logical/moral underwater handstands I have witnessed around this are pretty amazing. A person will complain thus-and-so web site stole their intellectual property or talk a good game about some other creator of intellectual property deserving to be compensated for their work. And then that big mouth will turn out to belong to a software pirate. Usually the essence of the excuses is around the software's price point being "unfair" (i.e. comparatively expensive). I of course have zero sympathy for that argument unless taken to its logical conclusion: free markets should be abolished. (And then I start listening again. )

bxbrkrz wrote: ↑

05 May 2020

Create an Everything Reason Studios with a rent-to-own option. Price should be less than what you pay for a Netflix sub. You already have that option for REs, why not for RS?

Why did you say that? Now we are stuck with R+

bxbrkrz wrote: ↑

08 May 2021

bxbrkrz wrote: ↑

05 May 2020

Create an Everything Reason Studios with a rent-to-own option. Price should be less than what you pay for a Netflix sub. You already have that option for REs, why not for RS?

Why did you say that? Now we are stuck with R+

You two should reach some consensus before writing here.

My first experience with reason was a cracked version I downloaded from a warez site. Ver 4 it was. After using it for awhile purchased ver 5 and all updates since as well as hundreds or maybe into the thousands of dollars of re's and refills. I lost track but I have 150 gigs of refills alone.

Reason is the only DAW that isn't cracked, right?

I think that's pretty impressive.

But they've really missed a trick there ...

... They could have been the Apple store of VST plugins by offering a crack-proof platform that can support future CPUs etc. I think they still could do it.

orthodox wrote: ↑

08 May 2021

bxbrkrz wrote: ↑

08 May 2021

Why did you say that? Now we are stuck with R+

You two should reach some consensus before writing here.

We agree