Need advice on UNPAID work for client...credits instead.

[KevTav]

Need some assistance/advice on work for CREDITS. I usually get paid. Just got an offer to do work for minimal $$$ and credits. (IMDB)

How do I go about this? I'm ASCAP. Don't have an IMDB profile. Getting calls from clients and totally trying to avoid this fact. But it's coming up.

How do I resolve it??

[fieldframe]

I’m surprised ASCAP allows “for exposure” work. I don’t make a living from music (I work in design), but there’s been a movement in my industry for over a decade to basically boycott unpaid work. It’s ultimately much healthier for the creative disciplines as a whole if everyone just agrees that getting “paid in exposure” doesn’t pay the rent, and that if you’re doing work for a client, that client should pay you the same way every other professional service is paid for.

[KevTav]

I’m surprised ASCAP allows “for exposure” work. I don’t make a living from music (I work in design), but there’s been a movement in my industry for over a decade to basically boycott unpaid work. It’s ultimately much healthier for the creative disciplines as a whole if everyone just agrees that getting “paid in exposure” doesn’t pay the rent, and that if you’re doing work for a client, that client should pay you the same way every other professional service is paid for.

I agree. But I floated it as an option. Now I'm stuck wondering how it would work since I haven't done it. I could get IMDB credits as "composer" or "music by"...correct?

I'm so not up to date on this.

[Bewlay]

If you've done any work on a film or tv show that gets an official release, your name will appear on IMDB.
At least that's my understanding of it.
If clients are asking you, they are probably curious as to your experience in the commercial film/ tv world.
It's basically a database of screen credits.
Have you done this type of work before? If so, you probably do already have a profile there.
ASCAP is completely separate.

[Bjørn Felle]

every time you see a film or tv show, the composer of the score is credited AND they will have been paid. Asking people to create something for you and be paid in “exposure” is disrespectful

[Oquasec]

I wouldn't do that unless it was literally an internship.

[chimp_spanner]

It's tough because I think we all want to be competitive/attractive options for clients but I think you have to stick to your own valuation of your work. If work is unpaid, it's not work. It's a "favour".

So I'd definitely think about this! I mean, unless it's an unmissable opportunity and would be amazing for your portfolio AND generate publishing money. But they're all big ifs!

[Bewlay]

You did say there is a small $$ amount but if they are promising 'credit' via IMDB, that's really nothing to do with them.
That's probably as a valuable as a Facebook page and you can set that up yourself for free.

[danc]

I worked for 10 year producing and directing TV shows for the BBC, ITV, C4, SKY etc. It was common on some of the shows to have "unpaid" helpers, especially runners and extras. For some of those "helpers" I know of many of them that have gone on to have amazing and successful careers off the back of their unpaid help. The exposure whilst "helping" kick-started their careers. One of these people I know is now producing/directing movies and he's doing rather well for himself (like the latest Universal's Jurassic Park). Not trying to name drop here - more importantly... that from humble "unpaid" work you can progress to greatness. Talented people will be spotted.

However... the flip-side is this. There are swarms of production staff that constantly use and abuse "unpaid" help - as if it were an expected given that people will do things for free to gain experience or a credit. Sadly it's quite difficult to spot the difference between what will help you and what is simply just free labour with no upside.

I'd say - get on and do the "unpaid" work if it isn't a huge amount of work... as in... it's only a few days here and there. Get yourself out there... learn stuff and make your face known. Along the way be a really willing, helpful, smiley, happy go lucky person and you'll go far. Knee jerk react saying 'I only do things for a fee' can come across badly and you'll be put in the "Don't work with them" bin.

Lastly - unpaid help is NOT just for when you start out in your career. The most successful people help out all the way through their career. They don't see their job as WORK... they see it as a fun HOBBY. They get paid to do their hobby.

As mentioned in previous responses - the IMDB credit can't be offered as a "payment" replacement by anyone. No-one has direct control over what appears on IMDB. It's simply the fact that if you are credited on the production then you will by the nature of that credit appear on any website that collates/displays TV and film credits - thus, you could appear on IMDB.

[joeyluck]

I've only received IMDb credits for a few things. Giving credit isn't a bargaining chip and it shouldn't ever be a replacement for payment. In terms of exposure, you will get much more being a part of your local directories.

There are pro (paid) iMDb profiles if you want to have your picture displayed, but otherwise I don't think it costs the production anything to add the credits.

[plaamook]

...but there’s been a movement in my industry for over a decade to basically boycott unpaid work. It’s ultimately much healthier for the creative disciplines as a whole ...

It's not just creatives. Same problems elsewhere.
Prospective commercial divers coming out of school w a fresh C-card doing 'work experience' to build their cv's, and you go onto CD forums (well, the CD Forum) and see old divers pulling their hair out because of how it fucks the industry. Which it does.

Problem is there's only a limited amount of cool jobs in the world and a queue out the door for em.

[motuscott]

Plaamook, if I could give ya a self isolating hug
you big underwater Reason enthusiast you

[KevTav]

every time you see a film or tv show, the composer of the score is credited AND they will have been paid. Asking people to create something for you and be paid in “exposure” is disrespectful

I didn't ask anyone, they offered it.

[KevTav]

I've only received IMDb credits for a few things. Giving credit isn't a bargaining chip and it shouldn't ever be a replacement for payment. In terms of exposure, you will get much more being a part of your local directories.

There are pro (paid) iMDb profiles if you want to have your picture displayed, but otherwise I don't think it costs the production anything to add the credits.

Yeah I thought of doing a "Pro" IMDB profile. I had ZERO clue that Amazon was involved.
Wat??

[KevTav]

I worked for 10 year producing and directing TV shows for the BBC, ITV, C4, SKY etc. It was common on some of the shows to have "unpaid" helpers, especially runners and extras. For some of those "helpers" I know of many of them that have gone on to have amazing and successful careers off the back of their unpaid help. The exposure whilst "helping" kick-started their careers. One of these people I know is now producing/directing movies and he's doing rather well for himself (like the latest Universal's Jurassic Park). Not trying to name drop here - more importantly... that from humble "unpaid" work you can progress to greatness. Talented people will be spotted.

However... the flip-side is this. There are swarms of production staff that constantly use and abuse "unpaid" help - as if it were an expected given that people will do things for free to gain experience or a credit. Sadly it's quite difficult to spot the difference between what will help you and what is simply just free labour with no upside.

I'd say - get on and do the "unpaid" work if it isn't a huge amount of work... as in... it's only a few days here and there. Get yourself out there... learn stuff and make your face known. Along the way be a really willing, helpful, smiley, happy go lucky person and you'll go far. Knee jerk react saying 'I only do things for a fee' can come across badly and you'll be put in the "Don't work with them" bin.

Lastly - unpaid help is NOT just for when you start out in your career. The most successful people help out all the way through their career. They don't see their job as WORK... they see it as a fun HOBBY. They get paid to do their hobby.

As mentioned in previous responses - the IMDB credit can't be offered as a "payment" replacement by anyone. No-one has direct control over what appears on IMDB. It's simply the fact that if you are credited on the production then you will by the nature of that credit appear on any website that collates/displays TV and film credits - thus, you could appear on IMDB.

Thanks for taking the time to write this. Will mull it over.

[KevTav]

It's tough because I think we all want to be competitive/attractive options for clients but I think you have to stick to your own valuation of your work. If work is unpaid, it's not work. It's a "favour".

So I'd definitely think about this! I mean, unless it's an unmissable opportunity and would be amazing for your portfolio AND generate publishing money. But they're all big ifs!

Don't get me wrong, I love doing music. It's not work to me. So I can throw in some 'favors" for exposure and to build community. I just don't know exactly how to go about all this with Credits or licensing. I'm just not that savvy on the 'biz' end. I feel like I need to read multiple books in a week's time.

[plaamook]

Plaamook, if I could give ya a self isolating hug
you big underwater Reason enthusiast you

Thsnks man.
But you'd better hurry. I'll be back underwater come June (I hope)
The hugs get pretty wet after that.

[Oquasec]

Do what you think is appropriate at the time.

[selig]

My 2cents…
The first engineer I worked for in the early 1980s actually got a credit for something he DIDN'T mix, because the copy had already gone to the printers (too late to change it) and he was moved to a different project at the last minute. I remember asking him about it because I was totally new to the industry, and his response was basically this:
Don't every worry about credits. The only folks who care what you've worked on are in the industry, and don't trust credits (case in point, the above situation). They know everyone else and always ask directly rather than trusting credits.

So he put zero value on credits as far as making an entrance into the industry. Maybe things have changed now, but I still follow that same mentality. For example, my All Music credits are somehow spread across three entries, based on a misspellings of my last name. I've never bother to correct it!

Most of this sort of work is totally about word of mouth - folks are more concerned about how well you worked with others etc, not just what you were able to get your name on. Most of my work has long come from someone I previously worked for advocating for me directly. Which is why "good relationships" are more important than credits IMO.
[EDIT - I've NEVER worked for free to promote my name, only as a favor for a friend or to help out a new/undiscovered talent.]

[Bjørn Felle]

every time you see a film or tv show, the composer of the score is credited AND they will have been paid. Asking people to create something for you and be paid in “exposure” is disrespectful

I didn't ask anyone, they offered it.

yes I realise that, I meant that they were disrespectful to you by offering it

[KevTav]

My 2cents…
The first engineer I worked for in the early 1980s actually got a credit for something he DIDN'T mix, because the copy had already gone to the printers (too late to change it) and he was moved to a different project at the last minute. I remember asking him about it because I was totally new to the industry, and his response was basically this:
Don't every worry about credits. The only folks who care what you've worked on are in the industry, and don't trust credits (case in point, the above situation). They know everyone else and always ask directly rather than trusting credits.

So he put zero value on credits as far as making an entrance into the industry. Maybe things have changed now, but I still follow that same mentality. For example, my All Music credits are somehow spread across three entries, based on a misspellings of my last name. I've never bother to correct it!

Most of this sort of work is totally about word of mouth - folks are more concerned about how well you worked with others etc, not just what you were able to get your name on. Most of my work has long come from someone I previously worked for advocating for me directly. Which is why "good relationships" are more important than credits IMO.
[EDIT - I've NEVER worked for free to promote my name, only as a favor for a friend or to help out a new/undiscovered talent.]

Thanks for your input. I need to work on my "working with others" skills.