Is Reason dying?

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guitfnky
Posts: 1930
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 05 Feb 2020

reddust wrote:
05 Feb 2020
Jackjackdaw wrote:
05 Feb 2020
Nice tweet, I am making my move back to Ableton but don't want to completely stop using Reason so upgrading to R11 for the plugin rack might be now the right choice... and I think once they implement the midi out for the reason rack, we might get it next for Reason DAW?
how is the Ableton workflow, compared to Reason (using the normal sequencer view, not the clip launcher, that is)?

is it relatively intuitive/easy to pick up?

also, does it have time stretching/audio quantization, and vocal pitch correction?

sorry, not trying to derail the thread, but I’ve been looking at other DAWs for a few months now and everything I’ve tried just doesn’t feel as good as Reason (even going back to my first DAW, which is pretty familiar). Ableton and Bitwig are about the only major DAWs I haven’t given a shot yet. I just want to have a backup DAW, in case RS continues focusing on the VST side of things instead of the DAW side.

aeox
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Joined: 23 Feb 2017

Post 05 Feb 2020

Well, if they take the DAW (they won't) Then I'll get to move to bitwig on linux and start a new journey :D

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reddust
Posts: 671
Joined: 07 May 2018

Post 05 Feb 2020

guitfnky wrote:
05 Feb 2020
how is the Ableton workflow, compared to Reason (using the normal sequencer view, not the clip launcher, that is)?

is it relatively intuitive/easy to pick up?

also, does it have time stretching/audio quantization, and vocal pitch correction?

sorry, not trying to derail the thread, but I’ve been looking at other DAWs for a few months now and everything I’ve tried just doesn’t feel as good as Reason (even going back to my first DAW, which is pretty familiar). Ableton and Bitwig are about the only major DAWs I haven’t given a shot yet. I just want to have a backup DAW, in case RS continues focusing on the VST side of things instead of the DAW side.
I like Ableton's workflow because it's quite simple to start making music with it. I was using it before I moved to Reason a couple of years ago but now I miss its simplicity when it comes to just start making music and being productive. Either way it has a lot of complexity if you want that as well. One of things I like the most is the possibility to freeze tracks, which is really CPU saving and much more easier than using bounce in place and turning off VST in Reason.

I haven't used time stretching or audio quantization in Ableton Live as I mostly used it to record guitars, apply effects and program drums in the past. Maybe this video can help, this guy has great tutorials on Ableton Live



Bitwig is made by former Ableton developers and it's supposed to be better if you need to do a lot of modulation on your DAW, I personally prefer to use modulation plugins or the included modulation features of my synths and I've heard Bitwig lacks some basic midi features and cannot process audio as well as Live.

I decided for Live because I already knew it so I don't need to waste time learning the basics of a new DAW all over again as well as in my opinion Live looks much more organized and simple and has enough features for me to start making music and not wasting time playing too much with lots of features I might never need.

The vocal pitch correction in Ableton Live is possible but not as nice and easy as it is in Reason, at least if this information is right, around the half of the video you can see how to do it without requiring external plugins


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rgdaniel
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Post 05 Feb 2020

howtobecalm wrote:
04 Feb 2020
so could anyone chime in and actually say what audio companies have died ? or have they just been taken over , i can think of synapse orion , actually synapse still going of course but there daw is dead
Opcode Vision / Studio Vision was my DAW of choice (although I don't think the term "DAW" was yet in place, it was just "sequencer software") from 1995-98, then Opcode was bought by Gibson Guitars, who promptly killed it off for no good reason. Yes, I'm still bitter.

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Opcode_Systems

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guitfnky
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Post 05 Feb 2020

reddust wrote:
05 Feb 2020
***lots of great info***
wow, man, thank you so much for all of that thoughtful info! I like that you said it’s easy to get started, but can be deep if you need that—that’s a hallmark of great software, IMO. I’ll definitely be checking Ableton out.

appreciate the response!

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reddust
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Post 05 Feb 2020

guitfnky wrote:
05 Feb 2020
reddust wrote:
05 Feb 2020
***lots of great info***
wow, man, thank you so much for all of that thoughtful info! I like that you said it’s easy to get started, but can be deep if you need that—that’s a hallmark of great software, IMO. I’ll definitely be checking Ableton out.

appreciate the response!
Glad to help :)

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selig
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Post 05 Feb 2020

rgdaniel wrote:
05 Feb 2020
howtobecalm wrote:
04 Feb 2020
so could anyone chime in and actually say what audio companies have died ? or have they just been taken over , i can think of synapse orion , actually synapse still going of course but there daw is dead
Opcode Vision / Studio Vision was my DAW of choice (although I don't think the term "DAW" was yet in place, it was just "sequencer software") from 1995-98, then Opcode was bought by Gibson Guitars, who promptly killed it off for no good reason. Yes, I'm still bitter.

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Opcode_Systems
Same here - I mostly used Studio Vision with my Pro Tools hardware, mainly because the original software sucked (Pro Edit and Pro Deck, two separate apps that had to be run together - still have headaches from that setup!). This was from 1992 to around 2003 when I started using Reason (and Studio Vision was killed off - still bitter here, too).
Selig Audio, LLC

howtobecalm
Posts: 78
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Post 05 Feb 2020

selig wrote:
05 Feb 2020
rgdaniel wrote:
05 Feb 2020


Opcode Vision / Studio Vision was my DAW of choice (although I don't think the term "DAW" was yet in place, it was just "sequencer software") from 1995-98, then Opcode was bought by Gibson Guitars, who promptly killed it off for no good reason. Yes, I'm still bitter.

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Opcode_Systems
Same here - I mostly used Studio Vision with my Pro Tools hardware, mainly because the original software sucked (Pro Edit and Pro Deck, two separate apps that had to be run together - still have headaches from that setup!). This was from 1992 to around 2003 when I started using Reason (and Studio Vision was killed off - still bitter here, too).
gibson love to kill stuff

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reddust
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Post 05 Feb 2020

guitfnky wrote:
05 Feb 2020
reddust wrote:
05 Feb 2020
***lots of great info***
wow, man, thank you so much for all of that thoughtful info! I like that you said it’s easy to get started, but can be deep if you need that—that’s a hallmark of great software, IMO. I’ll definitely be checking Ableton out.

appreciate the response!
This is another interesting video on what Ableton added with the Live 10 update, a lot of interesting little things to make the workflow faster and easier, I wished Reason 11 would have gone a similar way instead of dedicating development to the new plugin rack, but after switching to Live maybe I can indeed have some use of the plugin rack if I upgrade to R11..



But one negative thing to consider is that Ableton Live, the same as Reason, still doesn’t support MPE, in case you need it or it’s an important feature for you. Bitwig does and I think Cubase too

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craven
Posts: 643
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Post 06 Feb 2020

Re8et wrote:
04 Feb 2020
A good move would be to introduce RSN CLIPS - as a third mode for the Sequencer section*
*I do not use scenes very often, for me it could go altogether, merged into the "new" clip style sequencer

One Midi Note clip container, with various play modes, including randomizer, stochastic, legato, mono-poly. Just to make it better than others.
One Midi CC container
One Pure audio container

That's'it. How much for the upgrade?

Edit: I forgot to say, better means better than Bitwig and Ableton clips.... :PUF_figure:
I was hoping for clips to be part of Reason 11. Well, now you can use Reason stuff in your clip ready DAW. It's not the same...
:ugeek:

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altron
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Location: Tokyo

Post 06 Feb 2020

platzangst wrote:
05 Feb 2020
All I know is that discourse sounded a lot like this a while ago:

FORUM: Well, despite having stated many reasons why they don't offer VST support, Propellerhead needs to add VST to Reason or else it will DIE.

PH: *adds VST*

FORUM: Adding VST support is a clear signal of PH's desperation, so now we know they're gonna DIE.
I never wrote that! I actually do like the VST-capability inside Reason.
But making Reason itself a VST is a whole different story. By doing that they probably even limited themselves for what features could be added to Reason in the future as they have a make sure it complies with VST limitations. Unless they keep the standalone DAW prioritized and more feature-rich of course.

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guitfnky
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Post 06 Feb 2020

reddust wrote:
05 Feb 2020
guitfnky wrote:
05 Feb 2020


wow, man, thank you so much for all of that thoughtful info! I like that you said it’s easy to get started, but can be deep if you need that—that’s a hallmark of great software, IMO. I’ll definitely be checking Ableton out.

appreciate the response!
This is another interesting video on what Ableton added with the Live 10 update, a lot of interesting little things to make the workflow faster and easier, I wished Reason 11 would have gone a similar way instead of dedicating development to the new plugin rack, but after switching to Live maybe I can indeed have some use of the plugin rack if I upgrade to R11..



But one negative thing to consider is that Ableton Live, the same as Reason, still doesn’t support MPE, in case you need it or it’s an important feature for you. Bitwig does and I think Cubase too
I had to look up what MPE is, so it’s not really something I need. I can barely play my cheapo normal keyboard controller as it is. 😂 either way, thanks—it’s good info to keep in my back pocket, in case I ever come down with a case of GAS for a controller like that (wouldn’t be the first time).

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QVprod
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Post 06 Feb 2020

I joined the Propellerhead forum at Reason 5, and the death of Reason has pretty much been “prophesied” at every release. It’s always by a very vocal minority that doesn’t realize they’re the minority. Reason 11 may not have been a very attractive update for those who only use Reason, but check forums outside of this one, and there was a lot of excitement for it. RS managed to grab more customers, like any good business should do. How that equates to writing on the wall of an end... I dunno 🤷🏾‍♂️.
altron wrote:
06 Feb 2020
platzangst wrote:
05 Feb 2020
All I know is that discourse sounded a lot like this a while ago:

FORUM: Well, despite having stated many reasons why they don't offer VST support, Propellerhead needs to add VST to Reason or else it will DIE.

PH: *adds VST*

FORUM: Adding VST support is a clear signal of PH's desperation, so now we know they're gonna DIE.
I never wrote that! I actually do like the VST-capability inside Reason.
But making Reason itself a VST is a whole different story. By doing that they probably even limited themselves for what features could be added to Reason in the future as they have a make sure it complies with VST limitations. Unless they keep the standalone DAW prioritized and more feature-rich of course.
platzangst‘spost is pretty spot on. Not aimed at you specifically, but that was literally the mindset. Soon as they added VST, after many years of it being requested, people started claiming doom.

Also, Adding features to Reason DAW has nothing to do with VST limitations (If there are any) of the rack plugin. Rack plugin just runs devices and RE. Notice that at the moment Reason DAW has midi out but the plugin does not. Best to think of them as separate programs.

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platzangst
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Post 06 Feb 2020

QVprod wrote:
06 Feb 2020
platzangst‘spost is pretty spot on. Not aimed at you specifically, but that was literally the mindset. Soon as they added VST, after many years of it being requested, people started claiming doom.
Yeah, that's what I was getting at. There are always people who look at every thing that ever happens to Reason, or PH/RS, and frantically swirl around in their metaphorical cup of tea to read the leaves and predict the fate of this DAW. Now, the accuracy of these predictions is hampered by the fact that the people making predictions are not Reason Studios, and don't really know what's going on behind the scenes, so they make guesses based on 1) CSI-style micro-examinations of what little bits of evidence they do have, and 2) conspiracy-style analysis of what everything means. Since I really don't go over to KVR or any other DAW-oriented forums, I don't know if this is specific to Reason, or this is something every product faces, like there's people over at the Ableton or NI forums right now wailing about how their respective companies are doooooomed.

I mean, I'm committed to Reason and I've gotten a fair amount of enjoyment from the forum/community, but WOW there are some really weird behavior patterns floating around.

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Jackjackdaw
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Post 06 Feb 2020

I have been around those other forums and they do all have their share doom mongers. Ableton users are divided about the direction of things since they adopted Max instead of baking in those features. Cubasers are shitting the bed about HiDpi settings and the continuous sound engine, NI users all think the NI is dying a painful death since they got bought out or some such and guitar rig hasn't seen an update in 10 years. Everyone likes to have a moan!

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gullum
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Location: Faroe Islands

Post 06 Feb 2020

If reason is dying. I know I will survive, maybe? if not we die together.

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demt
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Post 06 Feb 2020

only the pretty die young like a phoenix in never ending ashes a morpheus of dreams ascending rebirth millenium to millenium this incarnation sublime
currently akai touch mpc. reasonsuite11, android kaosilater .behringer ddm4000 dj mixer
hear scince reason 2.5

PhillipOrdonez
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Location: Colombia

Post 06 Feb 2020

It's all funny to me the way some here throw opinions about the future. All fun and all (for some?, I try to focus on the positives and actually get work done and have a life), but if some potential user were to check this forum they might refrain from purchasing, which doesn't really help with the future of the company, does it?

Mint
Posts: 35
Joined: 17 Nov 2019

Post 06 Feb 2020

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
06 Feb 2020
It's all funny to me the way some here throw opinions about the future. All fun and all (for some?, I try to focus on the positives and actually get work done and have a life), but if some potential user were to check this forum they might refrain from purchasing, which doesn't really help with the future of the company, does it?
Yeah that's my concern. Some happy noob who's just downloaded Reason on a 30 day trial, excited by the prospect of a Reason future...comes round here to share their joy and to see what other Reason "users" are talking about. The first post they notice happens to be..."Is Reason dying?". "Hmmm that does'nt sound too healthy", they think. "Maybe i'll invest my money and time in some other DAW that has a more stable future".

Or maybe they'll see this post for what it is... ill informed.

Btw: We're all ill informed, none of us know anything of Reason's future plans. No change there, It's been that way for almost 20 years and I'm looking forward to the next 20. With that in mind, I'm unofficially changing this post to...What will Reason look like in 2040? :puf_wink:

PhillipOrdonez
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Location: Colombia

Post 06 Feb 2020

Mint wrote:
06 Feb 2020
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
06 Feb 2020
It's all funny to me the way some here throw opinions about the future. All fun and all (for some?, I try to focus on the positives and actually get work done and have a life), but if some potential user were to check this forum they might refrain from purchasing, which doesn't really help with the future of the company, does it?
Yeah that's my concern. Some happy noob who's just downloaded Reason on a 30 day trial, excited by the prospect of a Reason future...comes round here to share their joy and to see what other Reason "users" are talking about. The first post they notice happens to be..."Is Reason dying?". "Hmmm that does'nt sound too healthy", they think. "Maybe i'll invest my money and time in some other DAW that has a more stable future".

Or maybe they'll see this post for what it is... ill informed.

Btw: We're all ill informed, none of us know anything of Reason's future plans. No change there, It's been that way for almost 20 years and I'm looking forward to the next 20. With that in mind, I'm unofficially changing this post to...What will Reason look like in 2040? :puf_wink:
It'd be fine if it was just this one thread though.

Yonatan
Posts: 1185
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 07 Feb 2020

Ableton Live lives, hard to see anyone there predicting its near death. But in ReasonTalk there are reasonings about Reason´s death. Is that an Omen? ...please RS, bring out something soon now that can stop this madness, as I think it is partly RS own blame for the macabre situation, they are making strange moves that put oxygen on fire of dooming speculations, even if that is not at all their intentions about the release of R11. Show us that Reason is still a flying healthy bird, so this forum can be a bit more uplifting and forward gazing. I am ready to upgrade as soon as there is enough updates to the core DAW also, not just Rack Plugin.

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orthodox
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Post 07 Feb 2020

"Why does this generation ask for a sign? Truly I tell you, no sign will be given to it." (Mark 8:12)
Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise. -- L.Carroll

howtobecalm
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Joined: 03 Feb 2020

Post 07 Feb 2020

i would like a nice generous point update tbh for the DAw only user faithful crew

Yonatan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 07 Feb 2020

:roll:
howtobecalm wrote:
07 Feb 2020
i would like a nice generous point update tbh for the DAw only user faithful crew
Same boat here. I do not want to have to use another DAW to be able to think R11 is a decent upgrade. As for me, it is still just an update.

howtobecalm
Posts: 78
Joined: 03 Feb 2020

Post 07 Feb 2020

Yonatan wrote:
07 Feb 2020
:roll:
howtobecalm wrote:
07 Feb 2020
i would like a nice generous point update tbh for the DAw only user faithful crew
Same boat here. I do not want to have to use another DAW to be able to think R11 is a decent upgrade. As for me, it is still just an update.
i would like a built in video player and a few sequencer upgrades how hard can that be , when is a point update due ? is there usually time frames ?

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