Is Creativity a Finite Resource ?

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Proboscis
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03 Jan 2020

As 2019 has come to a close, I realize that I've not completed a single track, despite using Reason almost every day, and having over 50 ideas that in most instances contain at least three parts (more than enough to build something). And of those, many of the compositions simply don't have a whole lot of 'wow' going on. My aim is to take the listener on a journey, in the absence of any vocals/lyrics.

Is this a creative block ? Or has the well run dry ? I've long held the belief that even the most successful artists in the history of modern music also burn out creatively, and there is more or less a 10 year span where albums go from excellent right from the start, followed up by one or two more albums that are brilliant, and by the 10 year mark they lave lost a lot of the magic that made them so great to begin with.

Led Zeppelin are a great example of this. First three albums were killer, all the while being quite diverse and with some direction changes (LZ1: Blues, LZ2: Hard Rock, LZ3: Folk) but as 10 years rolled on from 1969 to 1979, the last studio album was really terrible. Pink Floyd didn't fare much better. From 1967, the first two albums were great, and they maintained a pretty good level until 'The Wall' in 1979, but then it all became generic FM rock radio stuff, a far cry from their progressive & dark psychedelic beginnings.

Back in the 1990's when I was exposed to a LOT of unsigned bands (for many years I would be seeing 15 live acts a week, it was an integral part of my life), I noticed a similar thing. New bands would begin with a shaky start as they learned how to work on stage, but they reached a performance pinnacle and would remain there for a few years. If their popularity lasted - this was a time where many bands could have a guaranteed turnout for several years without ever releasing an album, enough to throw their jobs in, but soon enough they would start to fade, perhaps in their passion for the craft, maybe because in their mind they were giving up before they even plugged in because mainstream success eluded them.

How do you, dear reader and artist, feel about your own creative output if you've been at this for some time ? Are you making music today that's as good as/better than stuff you created 10 years ago ? 15 years ago ? I hung up my stage boots 20 years ago, ceased being involved in the local music industry 15 years ago, and picked up on 'computer based music' shortly thereafter, because at my core, I need creative outlets to keep life interesting.

But if I compare what I was doing in Reason 4 compared to what I'm doing in Reason 10, the most epic computer-based music I did was in the first three years of learning the process, and with far less tools available. Make no mistake, I still enjoy the process, and sometimes I'll spend 20 hours over the space of a week just fooling around with crazy sound ideas without 'recording' a single note to the sequencer. And I have no desire nor any delusion towards commercial or critical popularity, because these days music is, to me, strictly a hobby.

So maybe it's time for me to say goodbye to making music. For the past year I've been keen on video production (mostly psychedelic visuals synced to music, where the visuals create the 'journey', and the music itself is incidental) but am severely limited by my computers terrible processing power, so for the foreseeable future that's not a creative outlet that's feasible.

Is there anything incredible left in you ? Many people will not be capable of objectivity in this regard, because it takes a lot of self-reflection to admit to one's self that they have become mediocre......... or perhaps have been mediocre from the very start.

DougalDarkly
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03 Jan 2020

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Noplan
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03 Jan 2020

Creativity can only be guaranteed imho if you take care of your mood. You have to feel comfortable or feel better by creating. In my experience, creativity is not something you have to wait for, you have to constantly create the conditions for it. And I don't mean that you buy a plugin, but rather eat healthy and do a lot of sport, for example. The fact that the stars' first works were the best is because they were driven to become famous. They had dreams, goals and no outside pressure at the beginning. And on the other hand a big success is a dead end and rather stressful, a creativity killer. Then drugs are added and in the long term brain chemistry is no longer useful for creativity. Unfortunately, you see that far too often.

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orthodox
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03 Jan 2020

I think there is no universal law for that matter, only statistics. People are diverse and so are the causes of their decline. One can get tired and lose the interest, or grow too picky, or get struck by fame, or whatever else. Some artists need an inspiration, others achieve no less impressive results with hard work.

I don't think creativity comes to an end. People usually lose it, but there's a chance they get it back.

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MannequinRaces
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04 Jan 2020

Creativity is like any other job. Sometimes you don’t want to do it but you have to keep working at it. Think about every person who is paid to do creative work on a full time basis... all the animators, illustrators, photographers, musicians scoring for film, people writing scripts for TV shows / movies, concept artists, and on and on. These people can’t roll into work and be like ‘nope I don’t feel creative today, I can’t work.’ Try giving yourself deadlines and limitations.

Proboscis
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04 Jan 2020

MannequinRaces wrote:
04 Jan 2020
Creativity is like any other job. Sometimes you don’t want to do it but you have to keep working at it. Think about every person who is paid to do creative work on a full time basis... all the animators, illustrators, photographers, musicians scoring for film, people writing scripts for TV shows / movies, concept artists, and on and on. These people can’t roll into work and be like ‘nope I don’t feel creative today, I can’t work.’ Try giving yourself deadlines and limitations.
Not sure I agree with this. A dear friend of mine runs a successful graphic design studio and hires around 15 staff. He often says he doesn't have a creative bone in his body, and has often stated that his team are not creative as such, rather they are methodical. His client work is in only a few specific fields, and he has created a design framework in which is followed, more or or less, an adapted to the client requirements. And as for animators, think of the three longest running cartoons, Family Guy, The Simpsons & South Park. I would not say the animators who (currently) work on those shows are creative at all. They have a job to do, with very specific guidelines to be met

It's interesting that you equate creativity in music to a job. That's the furthest thing from my mind these days when I create music. In fact over my years on this earth, I had another hobby unrelated to music that I was good at. Very good in fact, in that I was offered no less than three roles in the field to run operations (in that field, the crossover between 'pro' & 'amateur' sometimes circled each other. And despite the incredible amount of money they were offering, I turned them down, because when a hobby becomes a job, quite often it's no longer a labor of love, but just labor !

I've done some occasional music related stuff for commercial purposes in recent years (theme music for youtubers, podcasters, even phone answering systems) and while I was paid well enough for the gigs, quite honestly it drives me crazy, having to create something bland, dumbed down and totally at odds with the music I enjoy making for myself. Maybe that's the fate of many successful artists that they go from hungry young musicians to superstars, then the demands of record labels, or even their own ego, drives them to release music in which the first and foremost idea in mind is 'commercial appeal' rather than 'passionate artform'.

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platzangst
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04 Jan 2020

The answer to this question is no. Creativity is not a finite resource.

Even an animator working on Family Guy is creative, in that they are creating something, even if you don't care for what they create and don't see it as innovative or interesting or whatever quality you consider to be "good".

You, with your unfinished tracks, are creating at least unfinished tracks, and some people don't even do that much in their lives. The problem isn't that you aren't creative, it's that you don't appreciate what you are creating, for whatever reason.

Creativity and quality are not synonymous, art is not inherently good, and art does not have to aspire to any positive values in order to be art.

Yonatan
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04 Jan 2020

Capacity is greater when more experienced but the door of freshness is harder to open and takes more care and patience to do so.

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orthodox
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04 Jan 2020

Proboscis wrote:
04 Jan 2020
Maybe that's the fate of many successful artists that they go from hungry young musicians to superstars, then the demands of record labels, or even their own ego, drives them to release music in which the first and foremost idea in mind is 'commercial appeal' rather than 'passionate artform'.
That's rather the choice many made, not their fate, as Terminator said. And commercialism is not necessarily a talent killer. Tchaikovsky never wrote a single piece without an advance payment. He managed to create real gems from the Seasons set commissioned by a monthly magazine. If one creates something good, no record label can stop them.

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guitfnky
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04 Jan 2020

to answer your question in a word, no. (a firm no.) I think what you're describing, as far as certain bands' creative output, has more to do with the dynamics of being in a band of different people. when you find a group of like-minded folks, and you're lucky enough that everything just clicks into place, it's an incredibly exciting time. as with anything though, that newness, and the sense of the unknown gets replaced with familiarity, and you can still make great music, but it can get more and more difficult to find that headspace where you're just like 'F$%@ YESSSSS! THIS IS IT!!!'

I'd wager that most of the bands you're thinking of went through a similar change over the course of their careers. I'm lucky enough to have found a good group of people, and known that feeling. for a few years early on, we wanted nothing more than to get together and write music, or work on the band. we'd get together two or three times a week, and have a blast every single damn time. as years passed, we learned each other's quirks (songwriting, and personal), and fell into a groove, and that groove eventually became a rut, and then we struggled to string together practices consistently. we broke up, and have in the last year gotten back together, but we've had to make some changes to how we approach things, to keep things focused and interesting. we only get together once a week now, and only plan on a couple of shows a year. it's different. I miss the fire we had, but we're still writing some great new music.

I think the belief that one can stop being creatively relevant or engaging has more of an impact on quality and output than one might expect. if you believe you're losing your touch, it becomes easy to fall into a cycle of 'welp, that's no good...and that's no good...and this is no good...so, I guess I'll just go watch Netflix instead.' if there's one thing I wish people would KNOW about themselves it would be that they still have it in them, until the day they die, to create something new and interesting, and worthwhile. sometimes you've just got to push for it.
I write good music for good people

https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/

Proboscis
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04 Jan 2020

platzangst wrote:
04 Jan 2020
You, with your unfinished tracks, are creating at least unfinished tracks, and some people don't even do that much in their lives. The problem isn't that you aren't creative, it's that you don't appreciate what you are creating, for whatever reason.
An interesting viewpoint. And you're right, I *am* still being musically creative, even if the outcome does not result in a completed track. I spend many many hours per week in front of Reason, and at bare minimum there are some good ideas that I come up with, all without any effort or feeling 'forced'. That these sessions may yield only one loop (or often two or three, which I can't quite get to flow together, or quite find the right sound/instrument) is irrelevant to lost creativity, I guess

Proboscis
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04 Jan 2020

guitfnky wrote:
04 Jan 2020
I think the belief that one can stop being creatively relevant or engaging has more of an impact on quality and output than one might expect. if you believe you're losing your touch, it becomes easy to fall into a cycle of 'welp, that's no good...and that's no good...and this is no good...so, I guess I'll just go watch Netflix instead.' if there's one thing I wish people would KNOW about themselves it would be that they still have it in them, until the day they die, to create something new and interesting, and worthwhile. sometimes you've just got to push for it.
Yes yes, good points. Even outside of making music, if someone has that creative spark, it often manifests in other ways. I recently gave my kitchen a serious clean up and reorganization, and found myself arranging things that were not only functional but also visually pleasing. Like, I have about 10 large jars that sit in an open shelf in two rows that contain dry goods, and without giving it much though I arranged them in a way where the colors of the contents made for a more visually pleasing layout that just randomly throwing them into the shelf.

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BRIGGS
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04 Jan 2020

"Is Creativity a Finite Resource ?"

No
r11s

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guitfnky
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04 Jan 2020

Proboscis wrote:
04 Jan 2020
guitfnky wrote:
04 Jan 2020
I think the belief that one can stop being creatively relevant or engaging has more of an impact on quality and output than one might expect. if you believe you're losing your touch, it becomes easy to fall into a cycle of 'welp, that's no good...and that's no good...and this is no good...so, I guess I'll just go watch Netflix instead.' if there's one thing I wish people would KNOW about themselves it would be that they still have it in them, until the day they die, to create something new and interesting, and worthwhile. sometimes you've just got to push for it.
Yes yes, good points. Even outside of making music, if someone has that creative spark, it often manifests in other ways. I recently gave my kitchen a serious clean up and reorganization, and found myself arranging things that were not only functional but also visually pleasing. Like, I have about 10 large jars that sit in an open shelf in two rows that contain dry goods, and without giving it much though I arranged them in a way where the colors of the contents made for a more visually pleasing layout that just randomly throwing them into the shelf.
that’s an excellent point too, that a lot of people don’t realize...creativity doesn’t just come in the form of art, writing, or music. we’re creative in almost everything we do. it’s maddening to me when people say “oh, I wish I was creative”. you already are!
I write good music for good people

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orthodox
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04 Jan 2020

I just thought, what if creativity behaves like a consumable but renewable resource? I mean, I can spend it on casual things and then sense a lack of it in art. And it can regenerate with time if I have a rest, take a trip somewhere, get some open air.

Proboscis
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04 Jan 2020

guitfnky wrote:
04 Jan 2020
that’s an excellent point too, that a lot of people don’t realize...creativity doesn’t just come in the form of art, writing, or music. we’re creative in almost everything we do. it’s maddening to me when people say “oh, I wish I was creative”. you already are!
Although some people just aren't very creative, nor see any value in the conscious & mindful pursuit of creativity. It's usually people who live very bland lives, have no interest in learning about the world around them, and spend all their free time in front of the television. In some ways, they deliberately block any growth from their lives. A grating conversation I has with someone not too long ago had this girl telling me "I don't watch documentaries, because I know nothing about the subject". When the default position on everything new & unknown is "Don't know, can't do, so I won't bother" is completely kills a creative spark before it even begins.

I'm reminded of a talk I heard years ago from the founder of a Buddhist organization, when he spoke of creativity, and by extension to see the uniqueness in everything, even the seemingly mundane. One example he gave (on cultivating awareness) was of washing the dishes after a meal. To many, it would be seen as a chore no different to the thousand other times we wash the dishes. But there is a unique nature of every experience. Perhaps some birds are chirping out the window, or one may bring to mind and contemplate the conversation had over the meal that just finished. And the very movements we make in cleaning are never the same twice. Maybe the water is a little bit hotter, and it does the job better. He went on to say that this sort of awareness in the moment is what cultivates creativity, when we can appreciate everything around us as a new experience.

Proboscis
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04 Jan 2020

orthodox wrote:
04 Jan 2020
I just thought, what if creativity behaves like a consumable but renewable resource? I mean, I can spend it on casual things and then sense a lack of it in art. And it can regenerate with time if I have a rest, take a trip somewhere, get some open air.
Sure why not. See my comment that I was writing when you posted (I didn't see it until now). Maybe when we allow ourselves the appreciation of external influences, not specifically related to the creative pursuits we follow, then we are able to renew the resource with new fuel for the brain.

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bxbrkrz
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04 Jan 2020

The only time you stop being creative is when you are in a deep coma, stop breathing forever, buried, or cremated.
Asking the question Is Creativity a Finite Resource ? is the proof within: Creativity is Life, and vice versa.

This singularity (Light) is always first and is everything, past, present, and future, and all at the same time.

The answer is no, as far as I know.
:puf_smile:
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littlejam
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05 Jan 2020

hello,

just quickly read this thread
and went into the bookshelf to make sure i still had my copy of
wabi-sabi for artists, designers, poets, and philosophers
by leonard koren

it's a zen way of creativity and appreciating the minuteness of the small things in life
as if you can change any small sound into a symphony

almost like the tao of pooh or the te of piglet or the tao te ching

rainer maria rilke the poet writing about auguste rodin the sculptor is fascinating
synesthesia at its finest


cheers,

j
littlejamaicastudios
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selig
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05 Jan 2020

Is anything that is abstract a "finite" resource? Are ideas finite? Is love finite?
It's only finite in the sense that our physical lives are finite, so keep on keeping on till the day you die.
Selig Audio, LLC

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demt
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05 Jan 2020

hmmm i listen to my musical heroes back then inspiration is positively drippin outa the you tube currently what a bunch of sweetes by the pink faires

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dannyF
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07 Jan 2020

How do you define "creativity" ?

Music used to be a big 'hype' thing for me.... its different now that I am older. I may prefer puttering around in the garden. Being outside, fresh air, simple exercise.

Music seems to me now, a bit childish..... emotional..... desperate, attention seeking artists looking for validation by showing off.

Its just not my thing maybe anymore......

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dannyF
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08 Jan 2020

Also I wonder about this...

Perhaps if you are bored. Its the 'process' that is causing it for you. So it may not be that you don't want to do music anymore, maybe you are bored of the way you are doing it.

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reddust
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08 Jan 2020

Proboscis wrote:
03 Jan 2020
How do you, dear reader and artist, feel about your own creative output if you've been at this for some time ? Are you making music today that's as good as/better than stuff you created 10 years ago ? 15 years ago ? I hung up my stage boots 20 years ago, ceased being involved in the local music industry 15 years ago, and picked up on 'computer based music' shortly thereafter, because at my core, I need creative outlets to keep life interesting.

...

So maybe it's time for me to say goodbye to making music. For the past year I've been keen on video production (mostly psychedelic visuals synced to music, where the visuals create the 'journey', and the music itself is incidental) but am severely limited by my computers terrible processing power, so for the foreseeable future that's not a creative outlet that's feasible.

Is there anything incredible left in you ? Many people will not be capable of objectivity in this regard, because it takes a lot of self-reflection to admit to one's self that they have become mediocre......... or perhaps have been mediocre from the very start.
In my case I would say creativity is now even bigger than it was 15 or 20 years ago even when I am much less productive these days. I have a lot more ideas and resources but what I have been losing during all this time is the energy, the older I get the more it costs me to stay concentrated, to get home after work and still feel like I want to make music or other creative stuff.

I am quite sure if I had a job that would require my creativity in my favorite profesional branches I would do a lot of things, I don't know if they would end up being good or complete trash but I would surely do a lot. The problem is that not everyone is lucky enough to do the job that matches what he most like in this life and in my case I ended up doing a job that requires creativity but in a branch that never was my first nor my second choice but rather the third or fourth on my personal list. What this means is that my mental energy, which I need for being creative, is completely burnt out when I get home and have one or two hours of time to be creative in what I really like. But the creativity is still there as strong or even stronger than it ever was.

If we talk in general terms and not personal impressions I think the answer is a clear no, creativity isn't a finite resource and it is specially clear these days if we only watch at how technology evolves in just a couple of years. That technological evolution is the product of pure creativity, and that's only one of many examples

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aeox
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08 Jan 2020

All of our resources on earth are finite, aren't they?

Creativity is a really interesting thing. The definition for it is "the use of the imagination or original ideas, especially in the production of an artistic work"

To me, imagination in music production is taking your knowledge in the field and using that knowledge to "imagine" an interesting idea and bring it into reality. This doesn't necessarily happen before you start composing, sound designing, etc. Most of the time for me it happens while working on a track or experimenting. Sometimes on accident! One time I chose the wrong destination parameter in expanse and it blew me away. Now I just try everything all sorts of ways with all sorts of envs, lfos, etc. It's easy to go down the rabbit hole, so after a while you pick up on what sounds good and that's stored in your memory.

I really don't want to get into what "original ideas" means. Theres probably a thread for that somewhere. I guess part of what I said above about imagination and experimenting applies to "original ideas"

Creativity isn't possible without motivation. Can that be considered a resource? :D I'm motivated when I'm having fun. Using my acquired knowledge thus far in music production, I can experiment with sound design/chord progressions/rhythm, etc and if hearing pleasing results this motivates me to continue. I'm having fun!

There are tons of other things that influence motivation. Though, I think imagination is something more static, but could be altered drastically by psychedelics or other drugs.

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