Artist Exposure & Gender Equality

This forum is for anything not Reason related, if you just want to talk about other stuff. Please keep it friendly!
User avatar
esselfortium
Posts: 1456
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Contact:

14 Dec 2019

Weird thread. The OP feels like bait.

Anyway, there is absolutely a real societal influence on who goes into one field or another. A good example of this is how computer programming was originally looked down upon as a "woman's job", like secretary work. In more recent decades the field has been overtaken by men, who managed to chase most of the women out of the industry. This shift has completely inverted the stereotype of a computer programmer. If there are few women in your field (or on your forum) and the only conclusion you can come to is "because women just aren't interested in that", you are probably overlooking a lot, possibly starting with your own behaviors. Music isn't exactly a rare niche interest.
Sarah Mancuso
My music: Future Human

User avatar
bxbrkrz
Posts: 3812
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

14 Dec 2019

757365206C6F67696320746F207365656B20616E73776572732075736520726561736F6E20746F2066696E6420776973646F6D20676574206F7574206F6620796F757220636F6D666F7274207A6F6E65206F7220796F757220696E737069726174696F6E2077696C6C206372797374616C6C697A6520666F7265766572

User avatar
joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 11029
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

14 Dec 2019

bxbrkrz wrote:
14 Dec 2019
Wonderful speech! Many excellent points. So much valuable insight and experience in the industry. Very good of her to speak out about it.

I work in theatre and live concerts primarily, and the stories I hear from women who have been looking to get into the tech side of things are awful; stories about sexism, the barriers, the poor attitudes and expectations, the lack of opportunity, the vastly different treatment, etc. sounds so incredibly exhausting and discouraging that I question if I personally would be where I'm at today, doing what I do, if I wasn't a man...because I would have surely walked away.

I do my best to mentor aspiring technicians, and I think I offer a very positive environment, but that only goes so far when someone I mentor is encountering BS everywhere else they go. I speak out when I see something or hear about something that is wrong, but that is never enough to fix a huge, perpetual issue. It's very frustrating.

User avatar
orthodox
RE Developer
Posts: 2286
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Location: 55°09'24.5"N 37°27'41.4"E

14 Dec 2019

esselfortium wrote:
14 Dec 2019
If there are few women in your field (or on your forum) and the only conclusion you can come to is "because women just aren't interested in that", you are probably overlooking a lot, possibly starting with your own behaviors.
I don't know why it is so, it's just the way it is. I am all for people trying to overcome the external influence for themselves and choose their own way. I only contend against those who believe it is a flaw of the society and they know how to fix it. In the end they come to imposing what they feel is right on the global scale and it becomes just another point of pressure and influence in the society.

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 4408
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

14 Dec 2019

“it’s just the way it is” is about the laziest thing I’ve ever heard. “welp, nothing we can do. that’s just how it is.”

🙄
I write good music for good people

https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/

User avatar
orthodox
RE Developer
Posts: 2286
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Location: 55°09'24.5"N 37°27'41.4"E

14 Dec 2019

guitfnky wrote:
14 Dec 2019
“it’s just the way it is” is about the laziest thing I’ve ever heard. “welp, nothing we can do. that’s just how it is.” 🙄
Way better is pretending you know the reason why. Take a knife and chop away that part of the body. "I am a Lizard King, I can do anything".

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 4408
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

14 Dec 2019

orthodox wrote:
14 Dec 2019
guitfnky wrote:
14 Dec 2019
“it’s just the way it is” is about the laziest thing I’ve ever heard. “welp, nothing we can do. that’s just how it is.” 🙄
Way better is pretending you know the reason why. Take a knife and chop away that part of the body. "I am a Lizard King, I can do anything".
I think the goal is to *figure out* why. at least guesses are theories that can be tested. assuming nothing can be done, and that it can’t be understood, is defeatist, and ultimately lacks any use/value as a starting perspective.
I write good music for good people

https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/

User avatar
orthodox
RE Developer
Posts: 2286
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Location: 55°09'24.5"N 37°27'41.4"E

14 Dec 2019

guitfnky wrote:
14 Dec 2019
I think the goal is to *figure out* why. at least guesses are theories that can be tested. assuming nothing can be done, and that it can’t be understood, is defeatist, and ultimately lacks any use/value as a starting perspective.
I think it's a great starting perspective. "Don't fix that which is not broken". Why are you investigating the issue in the first place? How can a theory on that matter be tested? Can you provide an isolated playground where people would grow up for decades without the evil influence of the surrounding society? Wouldn't that experiment on human beings be dangerous for the participants? Will it be proven that the Brave New World is capable of surviving when left on its own?

User avatar
joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 11029
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

14 Dec 2019

orthodox wrote:
14 Dec 2019
guitfnky wrote:
14 Dec 2019
“it’s just the way it is” is about the laziest thing I’ve ever heard. “welp, nothing we can do. that’s just how it is.” 🙄
Way better is pretending you know the reason why. Take a knife and chop away that part of the body. "I am a Lizard King, I can do anything".
Huh? Who is pretending to know the reasons?

User avatar
orthodox
RE Developer
Posts: 2286
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Location: 55°09'24.5"N 37°27'41.4"E

14 Dec 2019

joeyluck wrote:
14 Dec 2019
Huh? Who is pretending to know the reasons?
Apparently, not you. You seem to be a faithful one.

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 4408
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

14 Dec 2019

orthodox wrote:
14 Dec 2019
guitfnky wrote:
14 Dec 2019
I think the goal is to *figure out* why. at least guesses are theories that can be tested. assuming nothing can be done, and that it can’t be understood, is defeatist, and ultimately lacks any use/value as a starting perspective.
I think it's a great starting perspective. "Don't fix that which is not broken". Why are you investigating the issue in the first place? How can a theory on that matter be tested? Can you provide an isolated playground where people would grow up for decades without the evil influence of the surrounding society? Wouldn't that experiment on human beings be dangerous for the participants? Will it be proven that the Brave New World is capable of surviving when left on its own?
is the earth still flat in your world? 😂

seriously, not just shrugging your shoulders and going “oh well” is how progress and understanding are achieved. like I said the first time, “that’s just how it is” is the laziest position one can take.
I write good music for good people

https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/

User avatar
orthodox
RE Developer
Posts: 2286
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Location: 55°09'24.5"N 37°27'41.4"E

14 Dec 2019

guitfnky wrote:
14 Dec 2019
seriously, not just shrugging your shoulders and going “oh well” is how progress and understanding are achieved. like I said the first time, “that’s just how it is” is the laziest position one can take.
It has nothing to do with laziness. It's a well thought out position regarding the specific issue.
Someone's understanding can be a delusion. Doing something new isn't necessarily a progress. Different people may see the progress differently. Progress and understanding can be achieved by themselves, gradually, without jumping to conclusions and crushing the existing world at someone's will. Throughout history, most, if not all, social experiments have led to blood and oppression.

I can choose only my own ways, and I can have only my own life to play with.
guitfnky wrote:
14 Dec 2019
is the earth still flat in your world? 😂
If you think you can reach an understanding and find a solution, it's your world that is flat.

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 4408
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

14 Dec 2019

orthodox wrote:
14 Dec 2019
guitfnky wrote:
14 Dec 2019
seriously, not just shrugging your shoulders and going “oh well” is how progress and understanding are achieved. like I said the first time, “that’s just how it is” is the laziest position one can take.
It has nothing to do with laziness. It's a well thought out position regarding the specific issue.
Someone's understanding can be a delusion. Doing something new isn't necessarily a progress. Different people may see the progress differently. Progress and understanding can be achieved by themselves, gradually, without jumping to conclusions and crushing the existing world at someone's will. Throughout history, most, if not all, social experiments have led to blood and oppression.

I can choose only my own ways, and I can have only my own life to play with.
guitfnky wrote:
14 Dec 2019
is the earth still flat in your world? 😂
If you think you can reach an understanding and find a solution, it's your world that is flat.
well-thought-out? certainly not. if it was well-thought-out position, there wouldn’t still be ongoing research to explain such discrepancies between genders. there’s obviously more to it than you think, or smarter people than us would’ve given up as well.

lazy, it is.
I write good music for good people

https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/

User avatar
joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 11029
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

15 Dec 2019

orthodox wrote:
14 Dec 2019
joeyluck wrote:
14 Dec 2019
Huh? Who is pretending to know the reasons?
Apparently, not you. You seem to be a faithful one.
What exactly are you talking about?

Are you denying how women are treated in these industries?

User avatar
TritoneAddiction
Competition Winner
Posts: 4219
Joined: 29 Aug 2015
Location: Sweden

15 Dec 2019

I have a strong suspicion this thread will be locked pretty soon. I mean with a topic including the words "gender" and "equality" it's bound to turn out like any political thread does. It's the usual, like watching a debate with the left vs the right. I knew right away it would go down this route. It always does with anything remotely political. The insults will increase the further the thread goes, the constant need to "win" or have the last word. It's so predictable at this point. No one is gonna change their mind. No one is gonna be open to learn anything new that doesn't already enforce their opinion. It's more likely everyone will just dig there heels in even further.

Honestly, if this thread makes it through without being locked, it would be nice if someone by the end of it told us something new they learned or hadn't considered before. It doesn't even mean you have to change sides.

User avatar
Jackjackdaw
Posts: 1400
Joined: 12 Jan 2019

15 Dec 2019

Check out the work of Angela Mcrobbie. She is a scholar with a deep interest in this topic since the 70's/80's.

If you give it the time it will switch on some lights.

User avatar
diminished
Competition Winner
Posts: 1880
Joined: 15 Dec 2018

15 Dec 2019

TritoneAddiction wrote:
15 Dec 2019
I have a strong suspicion this thread will be locked pretty soon. I mean with a topic including the words "gender" and "equality" it's bound to turn out like any political thread does. It's the usual, like watching a debate with the left vs the right. I knew right away it would go down this route. It always does with anything remotely political. The insults will increase the further the thread goes, the constant need to "win" or have the last word. It's so predictable at this point. No one is gonna change their mind. No one is gonna be open to learn anything new that doesn't already enforce their opinion. It's more likely everyone will just dig there heels in even further.

Honestly, if this thread makes it through without being locked, it would be nice if someone by the end of it told us something new they learned or hadn't considered before. It doesn't even mean you have to change sides.
:thumbs_up:
:reason: Most recent track: resentment (synthwave) || Others: on my YouTube channel •ᴗ•

Locked
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: AndrasHaasz and 6 guests