Can music be objectively bad?

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guitfnky
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Post 06 Oct 2019

totally agree...good and bad are judgment calls, and judgments can only be based on subjective opinion. it’s impossible to measure what is good and bad, without first defining what makes something good or bad—the problem there is that even defining those things is subjective. you can objectively measure opinions (e.g. polling), so it’s possible to objectively measure what is popular, but as the saying goes, “there’s no accounting for taste.” 😆

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aeox
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Post 06 Oct 2019

selig wrote:
06 Oct 2019
platzangst wrote:
06 Oct 2019
"Bad" is inherently a subjective term; nothing can be "objectively bad", by default.
Great quote, makes the most sense to me of anything I've read so far!
:)
Maybe my example wasn't objectively bad, but it definitely wasn't music :D
Random songs/ideas go here:
https://soundcloud.com/ae-ox/polar/s-Ocxtj

PhillipOrdonez
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Location: Colombia

Post 06 Oct 2019

Obviously the track posted from the original post is a terrible piece of stuff made by a complete amateur who had no sense of rhythm or musicality. How can anyone defend it? It is shit, plain and simple. It was not made out of knowledge or taste. It was made out of ignorance. It surely must be objectively bad!

This isn't some piece that was intended to sound bad. They wanted it to be good and failed spectacularly. You having a laugh? 🤷‍♂️

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miscend
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Post 06 Oct 2019

pushedbutton wrote:
02 Oct 2019
Just as a well trained musician can identify sounds that are pleasing to the ear it is possible to use this knowledge to avoid making music that is pleasing to the ear.
Yes indeed. Plenty of music is made these days with cacophony and dissonance as the objective.

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guitfnky
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Post 06 Oct 2019

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
06 Oct 2019
Obviously the track posted from the original post is a terrible piece of stuff made by a complete amateur who had no sense of rhythm or musicality. How can anyone defend it? It is shit, plain and simple. It was not made out of knowledge or taste. It was made out of ignorance. It surely must be objectively bad!

This isn't some piece that was intended to sound bad. They wanted it to be good and failed spectacularly. You having a laugh? 🤷‍♂️
you seem to be letting your emotions dictate your viewpoint. your entire post is completely based on speculation/assumptions which are impossible to know. and that’s setting aside that the artist’s ability, knowledge, and intent are completely irrelevant.

david1806
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Location: London, UK

Post 06 Oct 2019

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
06 Oct 2019
Obviously the track posted from the original post is a terrible piece of stuff made by a complete amateur who had no sense of rhythm or musicality. How can anyone defend it? It is shit, plain and simple. It was not made out of knowledge or taste. It was made out of ignorance. It surely must be objectively bad!

This isn't some piece that was intended to sound bad. They wanted it to be good and failed spectacularly. You having a laugh? 🤷‍♂️
I had to laugh, I couldn't have put it better myself. This is exactly what I meant in an earlier comment, about how if a track is made and it is intentionally supposed to be something, but gets it all wrong (tuning/timing, those sort o things) then surely it is just shit?

I mean going back to our man JJIceFIsh or whatever his fucking name is, that is surely indefensible, it is so bad it sounds like it has been made bad intentionally, like it's all one big wind up. But it's not, the guy is deadly serious.

Just in case you forgot who I mean:


I mean...C'MON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT: So I just actually listened to the above track again, from start to end - nope, I am sorry but this ends the argument for me. There is just NO POSSIBLE way that this track could be "subjectively good", no way at all.

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guitfnky
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Post 06 Oct 2019

david1806 wrote:
06 Oct 2019
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
06 Oct 2019
Obviously the track posted from the original post is a terrible piece of stuff made by a complete amateur who had no sense of rhythm or musicality. How can anyone defend it? It is shit, plain and simple. It was not made out of knowledge or taste. It was made out of ignorance. It surely must be objectively bad!

This isn't some piece that was intended to sound bad. They wanted it to be good and failed spectacularly. You having a laugh? 🤷‍♂️
Just in case you forgot who I mean:


I mean...C'MON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT: So I just actually listened to the above track again, from start to end - nope, I am sorry but this ends the argument for me. There is just NO POSSIBLE way that this track could be "subjectively good", no way at all.
are you kidding? this is subjectively GREAT. I laughed the whole way through! 😂

PhillipOrdonez
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Location: Colombia

Post 06 Oct 2019

guitfnky wrote:
06 Oct 2019
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
06 Oct 2019
Obviously the track posted from the original post is a terrible piece of stuff made by a complete amateur who had no sense of rhythm or musicality. How can anyone defend it? It is shit, plain and simple. It was not made out of knowledge or taste. It was made out of ignorance. It surely must be objectively bad!

This isn't some piece that was intended to sound bad. They wanted it to be good and failed spectacularly. You having a laugh? 🤷‍♂️
you seem to be letting your emotions dictate your viewpoint. your entire post is completely based on speculation/assumptions which are impossible to know. and that’s setting aside that the artist’s ability, knowledge, and intent are completely irrelevant.
"The artist's ability, knowledge and intent are completely irrelevant" to the quality of the music? Okay, there's no argument to be had with you if you believe that.

Goodbye.

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aeox
Posts: 2285
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Post 06 Oct 2019

david1806 wrote:
06 Oct 2019
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
06 Oct 2019
Obviously the track posted from the original post is a terrible piece of stuff made by a complete amateur who had no sense of rhythm or musicality. How can anyone defend it? It is shit, plain and simple. It was not made out of knowledge or taste. It was made out of ignorance. It surely must be objectively bad!

This isn't some piece that was intended to sound bad. They wanted it to be good and failed spectacularly. You having a laugh? 🤷‍♂️
I had to laugh, I couldn't have put it better myself. This is exactly what I meant in an earlier comment, about how if a track is made and it is intentionally supposed to be something, but gets it all wrong (tuning/timing, those sort o things) then surely it is just shit?

I mean going back to our man JJIceFIsh or whatever his fucking name is, that is surely indefensible, it is so bad it sounds like it has been made bad intentionally, like it's all one big wind up. But it's not, the guy is deadly serious.

Just in case you forgot who I mean:


I mean...C'MON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT: So I just actually listened to the above track again, from start to end - nope, I am sorry but this ends the argument for me. There is just NO POSSIBLE way that this track could be "subjectively good", no way at all.
That guy is next level troll. There is no chance that he is serious.
Random songs/ideas go here:
https://soundcloud.com/ae-ox/polar/s-Ocxtj

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guitfnky
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Post 06 Oct 2019

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
06 Oct 2019
guitfnky wrote:
06 Oct 2019


you seem to be letting your emotions dictate your viewpoint. your entire post is completely based on speculation/assumptions which are impossible to know. and that’s setting aside that the artist’s ability, knowledge, and intent are completely irrelevant.
"The artist's ability, knowledge and intent are completely irrelevant" to the quality of the music? Okay, there's no argument to be had with you if you believe that.

Goodbye.
of course they’re irrelevant. why WOULD they be?

I don’t know much music theory, but I’m a good musician. therefore knowledge is irrelevant.

do you need to know what Mozart’s intent was in order to appreciate his music? of course not. therefore, intent is irrelevant.

are any of the songs you’ve ever enjoyed in your life extremely simple in structure and easy to perform? unless you never used to bop around to simplistic children’s songs when you were growing up, the answer is yes. therefore, ability is irrelevant.

as a listener, why should you care about any of that? the point of music is to enjoy the sounds you’re hearing. none of that stuff is relevant to your enjoyment of what you hear, full-stop. it’s silly to claim otherwise.

david1806
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Joined: 26 Jan 2018
Location: London, UK

Post 06 Oct 2019

[/quote]

That guy is next level troll. There is no chance that he is serious.
[/quote]

LOL!!! I know aeox, I know!! For awhile I thought exactly the same thing, but the more of his videos you check out, then the more you realise this dude is deadly serious OR he has managed to keep this up for a long time, and is just fucking brilliant at making us believe he is serious - but nope, I'm afraid he really thinks he is the man. He has his own channel, you should check it out. He does these little acappella skits, they are the funniest thing.

And just to leave you with another classic - just to their lyrics and try not to put you foot through your monitor... :D :D :D


Enjoy!!

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diminished
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Post 06 Oct 2019

So far I'm digging all the "bad music" examples in this thread :lol:

Here's the Austrian IceJJFish if you will. He made a big career out of it.


Another legend is Alexander Marcus:


I love ironic and dadaistic approaches!
:reason: Most recent track: The Test (feat. MrFigg) || Others: on my YouTube channel •ᴗ•

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guitfnky
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Post 06 Oct 2019

diminished wrote:
06 Oct 2019
So far I'm digging all the "bad music" examples in this thread :lol:

Here's the Austrian IceJJFish if you will. He made a big career out of it.


Another legend is Alexander Marcus:


I love ironic and dadaistic approaches!
:lol:

“papaya, papaya, coconut, banana!”

reggie1979
Posts: 952
Joined: 11 Apr 2019

Post 06 Oct 2019

selig wrote:
06 Oct 2019
reggie1979 wrote:
05 Oct 2019
It is of that. If it's a repetitious nonsensical lard, then it's bad.
Unless you're into that sort of thing, and I've certainly met folks who are!!!
People like cigarettes and Guiness beer too, there is no accounting for taste :lol:

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guitfnky
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Post 06 Oct 2019

reggie1979 wrote:
06 Oct 2019
selig wrote:
06 Oct 2019


Unless you're into that sort of thing, and I've certainly met folks who are!!!
People like...Guiness beer too, there is no accounting for taste :lol:
them’s fighting words! 😆

reggie1979
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Joined: 11 Apr 2019

Post 06 Oct 2019

NASTY. Just like today's most popular music. Nasty filthy stinky wispy stuff.

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Proboscis
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Post 07 Oct 2019


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reddust
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Post 07 Oct 2019

yes, it can...


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guitfnky
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Post 07 Oct 2019

reddust wrote:
07 Oct 2019
yes, it can...

😂 you’re ignoring all the screaming fans in the background who obviously think it’s good.

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diminished
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Post 07 Oct 2019

reddust wrote:
07 Oct 2019
yes, it can...

OUCH that slide at the end!
:reason: Most recent track: The Test (feat. MrFigg) || Others: on my YouTube channel •ᴗ•

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gullum
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Post 07 Oct 2019

Anyone can have an opinion but that opinion can be wrong a 1000 times and in my opinion that remix and some other examples in here, are i my opinion, proof that music can be shit if you don't agree it is fine by me but your opinion in not making these songs any better in my opinion

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selig
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Post 07 Oct 2019

gullum wrote:
07 Oct 2019
Anyone can have an opinion but that opinion can be wrong a 1000 times and in my opinion that remix and some other examples in here, are i my opinion, proof that music can be shit if you don't agree it is fine by me but your opinion in not making these songs any better in my opinion
Maybe I'm not following, but hasn't the conclusion been that an opinion can never be wrong because it's 100% subjective? How can any opinion be objective?

How about this:
I'll suggest the converse argument is equally invalid: Can music be objectively GOOD?.
To prove it true, we only need to find me ONE song that everyone in the world says is good, and no one thinks is bad. ;)
Selig Audio, LLC

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platzangst
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Post 07 Oct 2019

selig wrote:
07 Oct 2019

To prove it true, we only need to find me ONE song that everyone in the world says is good, and no one thinks is bad. ;)

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guitfnky
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Post 07 Oct 2019

not to put too fine a point on it, but it’s literally impossible...
D0B55BAE-4B40-48CC-8117-1DB87A70785C.jpeg
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gullum
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Post 07 Oct 2019

selig wrote:
07 Oct 2019
gullum wrote:
07 Oct 2019
Anyone can have an opinion but that opinion can be wrong a 1000 times and in my opinion that remix and some other examples in here, are i my opinion, proof that music can be shit if you don't agree it is fine by me but your opinion in not making these songs any better in my opinion
Maybe I'm not following, but hasn't the conclusion been that an opinion can never be wrong because it's 100% subjective? How can any opinion be objective?

How about this:
I'll suggest the converse argument is equally invalid: Can music be objectively GOOD?.
To prove it true, we only need to find me ONE song that everyone in the world says is good, and no one thinks is bad. ;)
that is why I used the word opinion like 6 times what it all comes down to we all have an opinion it does not make it right or wrong but to us it is right or wrong :D

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