Can music be objectively bad?

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guitfnky
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Post 03 Oct 2019

aeox wrote:
03 Oct 2019
selig wrote:
03 Oct 2019


But what if you were hired to make a "bad" song, say for a movie where the script called for it?

How would you judge the results of your work - if it was bad, wouldn't that make it good? And if it was good, wouldn't that be bad?
;)

Seriously, the problem would be that even if ONE person liked it, it would no longer be "objectively bad", right?
Well then, is anything objectively bad?
not if it’s based on subjective opinions.

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aeox
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Post 03 Oct 2019

guitfnky wrote:
03 Oct 2019
aeox wrote:
03 Oct 2019


Well then, is anything objectively bad?
not if it’s based on subjective opinions.
Physics/math are bad because they don't work, because that's my opinion :D
Random songs/ideas go here:
https://soundcloud.com/ae-ox/polar/s-Ocxtj

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 03 Oct 2019

The track you posted is proof that there is objectively bad music.

Anyone who says otherwise has not listened to it.

It is worse than the parody Ableton 10 video.

DougalDarkly
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Post 03 Oct 2019

Art is entirely subjective surely? If not for the audience, then at least for the artist. Where is the room for expression if you're just following the rules and trying not to get it 'wrong'?

Image

Unless you believe this is just a bad painting of a woman?

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 03 Oct 2019

A turd is a turd. No matter how you look at it.

DougalDarkly
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Post 03 Oct 2019

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
03 Oct 2019
A turd is a turd. No matter how you look at it.
https://news.artnet.com/art-world/human ... lan-484562

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Timmy Crowne
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Post 03 Oct 2019

Bad music is music that doesn’t justify the sacrifice of time spent listening to it.

david1806
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Post 03 Oct 2019

"Bad music is music that doesn’t justify the sacrifice of time spent listening to it."..........I like that....

david1806
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Post 03 Oct 2019

So this could be subjectively "good"?



Surely not!!!!!!!!!!

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guitfnky
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Post 03 Oct 2019

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
03 Oct 2019
The track you posted is proof that there is objectively bad music.

Anyone who says otherwise has not listened to it.

It is worse than the parody Ableton 10 video.
I listened to it. I didn’t think it was bad. I didn’t enjoy it, but it was interesting to listen to.

DougalDarkly
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Post 03 Oct 2019

david1806 wrote:
03 Oct 2019
So this could be subjectively "good"?
F*ck yes!

I have a real taste for this sort of thing - not in an ironic way either - because it's a damn-sight more interesting to listen to than the same old 'correct' shit that's out there - there's room for all of us! :D

Have you got any more? Here, I'll swap you for one of my favourites:

http://cartilagerecords.free.fr/PLAONG/ ... ambada.mp3

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Proboscis
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Post 04 Oct 2019

On a related note, there are bands throughout the past few decades that I have a lot of respect for and tip my hat to, in their songwriting & composition, despite the fact that I don't actually like their music at all. I can listen to it, but I don't make a point of doing so, ever.

How about 'can music be objectively boring' ? There are a handful of artists that really disgust me in their bland, boring and repetitive tripe. Coldplay & Foo Fighters are two of them. Are they 'bad' ? Well it pains me to say this, but no, they are not. But I still want to punch something (usually myself, in the ears) if I hear their music.

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selig
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Post 04 Oct 2019

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
03 Oct 2019
A turd is a turd. No matter how you look at it.
A turd is a part of life, neither bad nor good (while also being both).
Selig Audio, LLC

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selig
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Post 04 Oct 2019

david1806 wrote:
03 Oct 2019
"Bad music is music that doesn’t justify the sacrifice of time spent listening to it."..........I like that....
I don't get that - how can you know if you like it or not if you don't listen to it?
And isn't this subjective?
Selig Audio, LLC

reggie1979
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Post 04 Oct 2019

If it's repetitive and boring (rap/pop/country) then it's objectively bad. Sometimes something will take me by surprise and not sound like anything else but will be appealing none the less. Rare, but it happens (and I mean Radio play as well)

david1806
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Post 04 Oct 2019

I think what (for me) definitely sits in the shite box is if a tune is claiming to be something, but gets it all wrong. For example, someone records a track, and the singing is out of tune, the rhythm out of time, mixed badly, etc but none of that is intentional - it's supposed to be in tune etc...... that, to me, is then shite.... Although obviously to the artist they probably think it's wonderful - that's where the delusion comes in, when you want to shout in their face "your are shit, give it up now". Ice JJ Fish is (again, to me) a perfect example. Totally out of tune/time, so, so bad, and yet this guy really thinks he is awesome, despite the massive amount of criticism he gets online. He actually posted a video once getting all arsey about all the shit he was getting - he was sick of people asking if it was a joke, when he is being so serious.

I mean, check him out again, here is another one, go to 1:28 and tell me this is not one deluded dude....


I mean, that is just...........pure shite.... But good luck to the guy, we are free to live out our dreams and do what we want to do, but fucking hell, I would've thought by now he would have given it up but the bloke has nearly 700k subscribers, he could just about make a living with that!!!

David

Mmm, maybe I should remix my man JJ Fish - it'll make me a millionaire.....

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guitfnky
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Post 04 Oct 2019

that kind of nails it...most of us would agree that it’s subjectively bad, yet the guy singing it would think it’s subjectively good, even if only because he was enjoying singing it.

for something to be objectively bad, 100% of people, past, present, and future, would all have to subjectively agree that it’s bad.

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Zac
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Post 05 Oct 2019

The saying goes.. there's no accounting for taste ... or something like that. I'm just glad that I've had a life where I've been able to enjoy a wide variety of music. I've been open to music, and it has rewarded me.

I don't know if it can be objectively bad, not sure I even understand what that means, but I know it can be irritating as well as enjoyable for me.
Image
Now available, see viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7512836
New Tune - Tonight - Tech-House: see viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7514209

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jam-s
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Post 05 Oct 2019

david1806 wrote:
03 Oct 2019
So this could be subjectively "good"?



Surely not!!!!!!!!!!
If they intended to make some dada art then it's quite good.
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace.

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selig
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Post 05 Oct 2019

reggie1979 wrote:
04 Oct 2019
If it's repetitive and boring (rap/pop/country) then it's objectively bad.
That's not the definition of objectively bad, is it? That would be subjectively bad, I would think. Besides that, boring music is boring - but it's still not necessarily "bad". And it's not even boring to everyone…

Another problem with "bad" is also "time". There is music I used to think was great that now I'm more "meh". And conversely, music I didn't like, that now I can appreciate.

IMO, there is only the spectrum between "music I currently like", and "music I don't currently like". ;)
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reggie1979
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Post 05 Oct 2019

It is of that. If it's a repetitious nonsensical lard, then it's bad.

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jam-s
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Post 05 Oct 2019

pushedbutton wrote:
02 Oct 2019
If the objective is to make bad music then it would stand to reason that there can be objectively bad music. Just as a well trained musician can identify sounds that are pleasing to the ear it is possible to use this knowledge to avoid making music that is pleasing to the ear. If you consider bad music to be juxtaposed to good music then it is possible that the opposite of what makes good music good is what makes bad music bad.
Having said that, all art is subjective, not all art is good.
At the Underground Conference there's a special competition to make the absolutely worst music (aka "the shitmusic competition"): some noteworthy examples from this year can be found here.
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace.

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platzangst
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Post 06 Oct 2019

"Bad" is inherently a subjective term; nothing can be "objectively bad", by default.

There are commonly-accepted standards of good and bad, but the mistake is to assume that if something is widely believed, it's an objective fact.

It's related to the is/ought problem: One cannot make a determination of what one should do based only on objective facts and reason.

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selig
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Post 06 Oct 2019

reggie1979 wrote:
05 Oct 2019
It is of that. If it's a repetitious nonsensical lard, then it's bad.
Unless you're into that sort of thing, and I've certainly met folks who are!!!
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selig
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Post 06 Oct 2019

platzangst wrote:
06 Oct 2019
"Bad" is inherently a subjective term; nothing can be "objectively bad", by default.
Great quote, makes the most sense to me of anything I've read so far!
:)
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