Can music be objectively bad?

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david1806
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Joined: 26 Jan 2018
Location: London, UK

Post 02 Oct 2019

Hi all...

So as I am getting back into making some music, and the internet makes it so easy to check out what others are doing, having just listened to something it got me a'pondering....

Now we all know music is subjective, and what one person loves, another may hate...but, do you think that a tune can just be, well, shit. Not in a subjective, opinionated way - it is just shit. Sound quality, timing, etc etc.... Or even those qualities - can they be judged purely in a subjective way ("it's supposed to be out of tune and with the timing all wrong...duh!") And can it stand out in its shitness even more when it is claiming to be of a certain genre - because then you can't really hide behind "it's just my individual sound"....if you claim to be making a house tune, surely if it's shit, it's just shit.

At the moment, I am being a wimp, and sitting on the fence until I hear what you guys think. I am going to risk it a little, and post something. If by some crazy coincidence, it is your track, then apologies, but you can't be taking it personal, I'm afraid it comes with the territory of making music. It's the first remix.. Kiss Me (feat. Jellow) (Yuliana Yang Remix)...here: https://skiomusic.com/yuliana-yang

So, my ultimate question here is - can music be simply shit, or is it always a matter of opinion? Discuss...!! :)

[I have popped this post on another site too....]

WongoTheSane
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Post 02 Oct 2019

(post moved and title edited for clarity)

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NekujaK
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Post 02 Oct 2019

Music = Art = Self-Expression

Good and Bad are individual judgments based on whatever yardstick someone chooses to apply. Nothing more.
wreaking havoc with :reason: since 2.5

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guitfnky
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Post 02 Oct 2019

I’d say no. at the end of the day, there is simply no piece of music that exists that no one likes on some level (at least when they’re creating it). even if you’re just making a song to troll someone, that’s the thing you like about it, and so to your ears, it does what it’s supposed to do. even if you look back on something later and think, “yeah, that’s bad”, the music itself hasn’t changed—just your opinion of it has changed.

even listening to that example, it’s more interesting than a lot of other stuff in the genre. I wouldn’t call it *better*, but there is something to say for being interesting.

and there are plenty of examples of music that’s considered great either in spite of, or precisely *because* it sounds so bad. two examples come to mind...John Frusciante’s first album, Niandra Lades and Usually Just a T-Shirt, and Captain Beefheart’s Trout Mask Replica.

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Zac
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Post 02 Oct 2019

When you said house track my heart sank a little... he means ... my... song

But no :P
Chilled Electronica - Autumn's End : see viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7514785

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aeox
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Post 02 Oct 2019

Yes

I'll prove it, by making one.
Random songs/ideas go here:
https://soundcloud.com/ae-ox/polar/s-Ocxtj

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aeox
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Post 02 Oct 2019

Random songs/ideas go here:
https://soundcloud.com/ae-ox/polar/s-Ocxtj

tibah
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Post 02 Oct 2019

That's bad! :D

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Oquasec
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Post 02 Oct 2019

Depends. I'd suggest getting a position where you can make whatever the hell you want.
Producer/Sound Designer.

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pushedbutton
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Location: Lancashire, UK

Post 02 Oct 2019

If the objective is to make bad music then it would stand to reason that there can be objectively bad music. Just as a well trained musician can identify sounds that are pleasing to the ear it is possible to use this knowledge to avoid making music that is pleasing to the ear. If you consider bad music to be juxtaposed to good music then it is possible that the opposite of what makes good music good is what makes bad music bad.
Having said that, all art is subjective, not all art is good.
@pushedbutton on twitter, add me, send me a message, but don't try to sell me stuff cos I'm skint.
Using Reason since version 3 and still never finished a song.

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MrFigg
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Post 02 Oct 2019

Yes. Of course it can. That smurf techno crap. Seriously...what the f&ck. Totally, objectively terrible. You’re welcome. :).

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aeox
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Post 02 Oct 2019

tibah wrote:
02 Oct 2019
That's bad! :D
But dude.. it just needs mastering.
Random songs/ideas go here:
https://soundcloud.com/ae-ox/polar/s-Ocxtj

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aeox
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Post 02 Oct 2019

pushedbutton wrote:
02 Oct 2019
If the objective is to make bad music then it would stand to reason that there can be objectively bad music. Just as a well trained musician can identify sounds that are pleasing to the ear it is possible to use this knowledge to avoid making music that is pleasing to the ear. If you consider bad music to be juxtaposed to good music then it is possible that the opposite of what makes good music good is what makes bad music bad.
Having said that, all art is subjective, not all art is good.
That was my approach.

I thought of everything that I think makes music good, then did the opposite of that.
Random songs/ideas go here:
https://soundcloud.com/ae-ox/polar/s-Ocxtj

tibah
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Post 02 Oct 2019

aeox wrote:
02 Oct 2019
tibah wrote:
02 Oct 2019
That's bad! :D
But dude.. it just needs mastering.
Multi-band and L3 or something more analog?

If music is the transportation of a feeling or a story there is no bad music, as long as the feeling or the story reaches someone else.
Last edited by tibah on 02 Oct 2019, edited 2 times in total.

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pushedbutton
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Location: Lancashire, UK

Post 02 Oct 2019

tibah wrote:
02 Oct 2019
That's bad! :D
But it's a good example.
@pushedbutton on twitter, add me, send me a message, but don't try to sell me stuff cos I'm skint.
Using Reason since version 3 and still never finished a song.

tibah
Posts: 896
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 02 Oct 2019

pushedbutton wrote:
02 Oct 2019
tibah wrote:
02 Oct 2019
That's bad! :D
But it's a good example.
Yea. I know. :P

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full-of-life
Posts: 44
Joined: 13 Oct 2017

Post 02 Oct 2019

david1806 wrote:
02 Oct 2019
And can it stand out in its shitness even more when it is claiming to be of a certain genre
Your Home Sweet Home heating radiator is broken and swings tactlessly, too?
Who consumes white power music 24/7, in the tradition of right-wing populism?
I am wondering things are as bleak as they seem, in next door.

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Noplan
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Post 02 Oct 2019

No. But since Nickelback, I'm not so sure anymore.

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diminished
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Post 02 Oct 2019

Noplan wrote:
02 Oct 2019
No. But since Nickelback, I'm not so sure anymore.
^ this is how you remind me of what I really am
:reason: Most recent track: The Test (feat. MrFigg) || Others: on my YouTube channel •ᴗ•

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aeox
Posts: 2351
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Post 02 Oct 2019

tibah wrote:
02 Oct 2019
pushedbutton wrote:
02 Oct 2019


But it's a good example.
Yea. I know. :P
I apologize for your ears.
Random songs/ideas go here:
https://soundcloud.com/ae-ox/polar/s-Ocxtj

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guitfnky
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Post 02 Oct 2019

aeox wrote:
02 Oct 2019
pushedbutton wrote:
02 Oct 2019
If the objective is to make bad music then it would stand to reason that there can be objectively bad music. Just as a well trained musician can identify sounds that are pleasing to the ear it is possible to use this knowledge to avoid making music that is pleasing to the ear. If you consider bad music to be juxtaposed to good music then it is possible that the opposite of what makes good music good is what makes bad music bad.
Having said that, all art is subjective, not all art is good.
That was my approach.

I thought of everything that I think makes music good, then did the opposite of that.
😂 I think this falls safely under the umbrella of my “trolling” example.

david1806
Posts: 34
Joined: 26 Jan 2018
Location: London, UK

Post 02 Oct 2019

I think I have found my second home - some great replies. I was a bit concerned people were going to get on their high horse and give me a hard time, but nope, plenty to think about.

So personally, I absolutely think that there is some utter shit out there....and to make it worse some of the folks doing it are deluded to the point of mental illness. I am sure most of you have seen some of the "worst of" YouTube videos. If not, let me start you off.....

This band Three Beat Slide, have built a real cult following - one main reason is the father looking like such a pedo...no, really, hear me out. That is the most common comment to their videos - he is just so....so....wrong.... But I can't enough of them, it's a father/(imbred) son and daughter trio and in this video, a selection of their fans/stalkers:


The you got this guy, IceJJFish. This dude actually posted up a video of him having a rant at all the negative comments he was getting. This guy is the epitome of deluded, he really thinks he is the man. Check this one out:


Sorry, I could go on all night, but I will leave you with this guy. I am actually in the camp that believes that this is actually a good song. Many people do, and what has now been known as his "power stance" - watch it and you'll get me...


So. anyway, if some of these videos don't prove that some music is just shite, then nothing will!! BUT I also understand the comments about how music really is just a matter of opinion.

reggie1979
Posts: 1176
Joined: 11 Apr 2019

Post 02 Oct 2019

If it's this cookie cutter rap a crap, then yes, it can be objectively bad.

I just saw a Rick Beato thing on awful hi-hats. It might be the biggest retard thread ever. I mean EVERY SINGLE EXAMPLE he gave was utter trash. And just because one is louder he started this? This is music today kiddies, it's garbage.

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selig
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Post 03 Oct 2019

aeox wrote:
02 Oct 2019
Yes

I'll prove it, by making one.
But what if you were hired to make a "bad" song, say for a movie where the script called for it?

How would you judge the results of your work - if it was bad, wouldn't that make it good? And if it was good, wouldn't that be bad?
;)

Seriously, the problem would be that even if ONE person liked it, it would no longer be "objectively bad", right?
Selig Audio, LLC

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aeox
Posts: 2351
Joined: 23 Feb 2017

Post 03 Oct 2019

selig wrote:
03 Oct 2019
aeox wrote:
02 Oct 2019
Yes

I'll prove it, by making one.
But what if you were hired to make a "bad" song, say for a movie where the script called for it?

How would you judge the results of your work - if it was bad, wouldn't that make it good? And if it was good, wouldn't that be bad?
;)

Seriously, the problem would be that even if ONE person liked it, it would no longer be "objectively bad", right?
Well then, is anything objectively bad?
Random songs/ideas go here:
https://soundcloud.com/ae-ox/polar/s-Ocxtj

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