Propellerheads wont transfer REs. Is this legal?

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User avatar
gdm41
Posts: 89
Joined: 19 May 2016

20 Jun 2019

Hi Guys,

i came across Studio One and want to switch my DAW. I just found out, that Propellerheads doesnt allow to transfer rackextension licenses, which makes them useless because you can transfer the reason license itself.

From my point of view this is clearly against the eu law (Doctrine of Copyright Exhaustion) and i sent an mail to the support. They just replied like "no its not against eu law and our EULA is correct". Why are they acting in this manner? Just a simple Googlesearch clearly says theyre wrong. For instance:

https://www.theverge.com/2012/7/3/31348 ... oad-ruling

"It also overruled the terms of service many companies use: "even if the license agreement prohibits a further transfer," the court ruled, "the rightsholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy."

I am not angry about money i lost but about the behavior from Props, i liked the company and thought they are a cool and consumer friendly company. Have you any ideas how to proceed in this case?

Cheers
gdm41
Start lending-> http://www.kiva.org

User avatar
motuscott
Posts: 3422
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Contest Weiner

20 Jun 2019

Not saying it's legal or not, but the inability to sell the REs you purchased was clearly stated from day one.
Who’s using the royal plural now baby? 🧂

sleep1979

20 Jun 2019

gdm41 wrote:
20 Jun 2019
Hi Guys,

i came across Studio One and want to switch my DAW. I just found out, that Propellerheads doesnt allow to transfer rackextension licenses, which makes them useless because you can transfer the reason license itself.

From my point of view this is clearly against the eu law (Doctrine of Copyright Exhaustion) and i sent an mail to the support. They just replied like "no its not against eu law and our EULA is correct". Why are they acting in this manner? Just a simple Googlesearch clearly says theyre wrong. For instance:

https://www.theverge.com/2012/7/3/31348 ... oad-ruling

"It also overruled the terms of service many companies use: "even if the license agreement prohibits a further transfer," the court ruled, "the rightsholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy."

I am not angry about money i lost but about the behavior from Props, i liked the company and thought they are a cool and consumer friendly company. Have you any ideas how to proceed in this case?

Cheers
gdm41
not all vst companies allow you to re sell either like heavyocity ?
are you telling me there all being illegal ?

sleep1979

20 Jun 2019

motuscott wrote:
20 Jun 2019
Not saying it's legal or not, but the inability to sell the REs you purchased was clearly stated from day one.
yeah I guess u would have to take them to court

ill back you on that one from my armchair

User avatar
gdm41
Posts: 89
Joined: 19 May 2016

20 Jun 2019

sleep1979 wrote:
20 Jun 2019
gdm41 wrote:
20 Jun 2019
Hi Guys,

i came across Studio One and want to switch my DAW. I just found out, that Propellerheads doesnt allow to transfer rackextension licenses, which makes them useless because you can transfer the reason license itself.

From my point of view this is clearly against the eu law (Doctrine of Copyright Exhaustion) and i sent an mail to the support. They just replied like "no its not against eu law and our EULA is correct". Why are they acting in this manner? Just a simple Googlesearch clearly says theyre wrong. For instance:

https://www.theverge.com/2012/7/3/31348 ... oad-ruling

"It also overruled the terms of service many companies use: "even if the license agreement prohibits a further transfer," the court ruled, "the rightsholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy."

I am not angry about money i lost but about the behavior from Props, i liked the company and thought they are a cool and consumer friendly company. Have you any ideas how to proceed in this case?

Cheers
gdm41
not all vst companies allow you to re sell either like heavyocity ?
are you telling me there all being illegal ?
Yes, from my point of view its clearly illegal.
Start lending-> http://www.kiva.org

User avatar
gdm41
Posts: 89
Joined: 19 May 2016

20 Jun 2019

sleep1979 wrote:
20 Jun 2019
motuscott wrote:
20 Jun 2019
Not saying it's legal or not, but the inability to sell the REs you purchased was clearly stated from day one.
yeah I guess u would have to take them to court

ill back you on that one from my armchair
Thanks for your support :)
Start lending-> http://www.kiva.org

sleep1979

20 Jun 2019

gdm41 wrote:
20 Jun 2019
sleep1979 wrote:
20 Jun 2019


yeah I guess u would have to take them to court

ill back you on that one from my armchair
Thanks for your support :)
nah I would love to challenge it I haven't got a lot of rack extensions
actually I got props to remove some I paid for , ( not a great deal of money but still
but it would have been nice to have the option to re sell them
but there going to make a lot less money like that , that's why they have a lot of sales
its silly I know
and if its illegal hmmm maybe we call all boycott it ? but I doubt u will get everyone with you not to buy for a few months or something

sleep1979

20 Jun 2019

youll get me I hardly buy anyway haha

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 4408
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

20 Jun 2019

gdm41 wrote:
20 Jun 2019
Yes, from my point of view its clearly illegal.
thank god this is not how the law works.
I write good music for good people

https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/

User avatar
MannequinRaces
Posts: 1543
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

20 Jun 2019

Yes it’s legal. You agreed to it, lol.

User avatar
Loque
Moderator
Posts: 11175
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

20 Jun 2019

I am not sure, how the law realy is to be interpreted, i am not a lawyer. If it is illegal, sooner or later the company gets a penalty. It might be still legal due to some special things, we do not undrestand, there is not a law or there is just no curt decision. I am not sure, what i buy with a RE, but it may not be a "serial" or license, rather i buy a service bound to my account and a account is not a peace of software - i guess you understand, that interpretation can get tricky here...
Reason12, Win10

User avatar
bxbrkrz
Posts: 3814
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

20 Jun 2019

gdm41 wrote:
20 Jun 2019
Hi Guys,

i came across Studio One and want to switch my DAW. I just found out, that Propellerheads doesnt allow to transfer rackextension licenses, which makes them useless because you can transfer the reason license itself.

From my point of view this is clearly against the eu law (Doctrine of Copyright Exhaustion) and i sent an mail to the support. They just replied like "no its not against eu law and our EULA is correct". Why are they acting in this manner? Just a simple Googlesearch clearly says theyre wrong. For instance:

https://www.theverge.com/2012/7/3/31348 ... oad-ruling

"It also overruled the terms of service many companies use: "even if the license agreement prohibits a further transfer," the court ruled, "the rightsholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy."

I am not angry about money i lost but about the behavior from Props, i liked the company and thought they are a cool and consumer friendly company. Have you any ideas how to proceed in this case?

Cheers
gdm41
The next logical step would be to sue compagnies like Apple and Google, first. To me the PH app store is the same as those companies' app stores. Why can't I resale my Candy Crush Saga, Angry Birds or Temple Run 2 to another person and across platforms, from Android to iOS, and vice versa? The article you linked was written in 2012. GoogApple not worried.

To have built-in banner ads withing your rack, yes inside Reason, is the way to go.
The same way you could play a game for free with ads, or pay for it and get rid of the ads, why not have the same option with REs? Instead of creating a rack few people will pay for, but can't give it away for free (because dev time is money), give the devs a third option between free and $9? :ugeek:
757365206C6F67696320746F207365656B20616E73776572732075736520726561736F6E20746F2066696E6420776973646F6D20676574206F7574206F6620796F757220636F6D666F7274207A6F6E65206F7220796F757220696E737069726174696F6E2077696C6C206372797374616C6C697A6520666F7265766572

User avatar
Loque
Moderator
Posts: 11175
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

20 Jun 2019

bxbrkrz wrote:
20 Jun 2019
...Why can't I resale my Candy Crush Saga...
Good point...
Reason12, Win10

User avatar
motuscott
Posts: 3422
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Contest Weiner

20 Jun 2019

Wait, you're suggesting ads within the rack?
Brilliant!
Who’s using the royal plural now baby? 🧂

User avatar
Loque
Moderator
Posts: 11175
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

20 Jun 2019

motuscott wrote:
20 Jun 2019
Wait, you're suggesting ads within the rack?
Brilliant!
RE-jected.
Reason12, Win10

User avatar
gdm41
Posts: 89
Joined: 19 May 2016

20 Jun 2019

bxbrkrz wrote:
20 Jun 2019
gdm41 wrote:
20 Jun 2019
Hi Guys,

i came across Studio One and want to switch my DAW. I just found out, that Propellerheads doesnt allow to transfer rackextension licenses, which makes them useless because you can transfer the reason license itself.

From my point of view this is clearly against the eu law (Doctrine of Copyright Exhaustion) and i sent an mail to the support. They just replied like "no its not against eu law and our EULA is correct". Why are they acting in this manner? Just a simple Googlesearch clearly says theyre wrong. For instance:

https://www.theverge.com/2012/7/3/31348 ... oad-ruling

"It also overruled the terms of service many companies use: "even if the license agreement prohibits a further transfer," the court ruled, "the rightsholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy."

I am not angry about money i lost but about the behavior from Props, i liked the company and thought they are a cool and consumer friendly company. Have you any ideas how to proceed in this case?

Cheers
gdm41
The next logical step would be to sue compagnies like Apple and Google, first. To me the PH app store is the same as those companies' app stores. Why can't I resale my Candy Crush Saga, Angry Birds or Temple Run 2 to another person and across platforms, from Android to iOS, and vice versa? The article you linked was written in 2012. GoogApple not worried.

To have built-in banner ads withing your rack, yes inside Reason, is the way to go.
The same way you could play a game for free with ads, or pay for it and get rid of the ads, why not have the same option with REs? Instead of creating a rack few people will pay for, but can't give it away for free (because dev time is money), give the devs a third option between free and $9? :ugeek:
Apple and Google are US based companies. I am talking about the EU law.
https://www.itbusiness.ca/blog/yes-virg ... rope/45821
Start lending-> http://www.kiva.org

User avatar
MrFigg
Competition Winner
Posts: 9124
Joined: 20 Apr 2018

20 Jun 2019

Loque wrote:
20 Jun 2019
motuscott wrote:
20 Jun 2019
Wait, you're suggesting ads within the rack?
Brilliant!
RE-jected.
Advertisement in Swedish is “reklam”. RE-Klam. Perfect. Usch!
🗲 2ॐ ᛉ

User avatar
BRIGGS
Posts: 2135
Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Orange County California

20 Jun 2019

Image
r11s

Ostermilk
Posts: 1535
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

20 Jun 2019

MannequinRaces wrote:
20 Jun 2019
Yes it’s legal. You agreed to it, lol.
But that only applies to responsible adults... :puf_bigsmile:

User avatar
BRIGGS
Posts: 2135
Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Orange County California

20 Jun 2019

Ostermilk wrote:
20 Jun 2019
MannequinRaces wrote:
20 Jun 2019
Yes it’s legal. You agreed to it, lol.
But that only applies to responsible adults... :puf_bigsmile:
r11s

User avatar
gdm41
Posts: 89
Joined: 19 May 2016

20 Jun 2019

MannequinRaces wrote:
20 Jun 2019
Yes it’s legal. You agreed to it, lol.
Like i posted earlier, it is not legal and the EULA do not apply.
Start lending-> http://www.kiva.org

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 4408
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

20 Jun 2019

gdm41 wrote:
20 Jun 2019
MannequinRaces wrote:
20 Jun 2019
Yes it’s legal. You agreed to it, lol.
Like i posted earlier, it is not legal and the EULA do not apply.
according to what statute(s)?
I write good music for good people

https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/

User avatar
diminished
Competition Winner
Posts: 1880
Joined: 15 Dec 2018

20 Jun 2019

guitfnky wrote:
20 Jun 2019
gdm41 wrote:
20 Jun 2019


Like i posted earlier, it is not legal and the EULA do not apply.
according to what statute(s)?
http://curia.europa.eu/juris/documents. ... anguage=en
:reason: Most recent track: resentment (synthwave) || Others: on my YouTube channel •ᴗ•

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 4408
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

20 Jun 2019

diminished wrote:
20 Jun 2019
guitfnky wrote:
20 Jun 2019


according to what statute(s)?
http://curia.europa.eu/juris/documents. ... anguage=en
thanks! and we’re certain that these judgments would apply specifically to Props’ distribution model? that just strikes me as a bit unbelievable...they must have some sort of legal advisory team.
I write good music for good people

https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/

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Wobbleburger
Posts: 260
Joined: 14 Sep 2018
Location: Austin
Contact:

20 Jun 2019

guitfnky wrote:
20 Jun 2019
gdm41 wrote:
20 Jun 2019
Yes, from my point of view its clearly illegal.
thank god this is not how the law works.
l o l
In the 90s, my midi music was on the Baulder's Gate site. That was my life peak.
Reasonite since 2000. My music (and my old midi) can be found here:
https://futurewizard.org

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