Reason logo'd items in my shop

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Heigen5
Posts: 229
Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Location: Lõvi-isa

Post 23 Nov 2018

Anyway: My apologies to the Props for not asking first. Not sure what I was thinking.

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Heigen5
Posts: 229
Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Location: Lõvi-isa

Post 23 Nov 2018

Could you mods please lock this thread now to avoid further drama? :puf_smile:

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platzangst
Posts: 529
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 23 Nov 2018

Heigen5 wrote:
23 Nov 2018
The whole pirating thing can be really amusing though. The net is full of pirate-sites and the lawyers do nothing about it. But when someone makes few mugs then half of the world is like "How dare you"? And propably most of them have downloaded unlegal music at some point themself.
Attacking pirate sites is problematic for a variety of reasons. I lived through the days of Napster, when illegal downloading first took off, and the music companies quickly got a bad rep for doing things like suing teens and grandmas for outrageous sums of money for their illegal downloads. And then there's the fluid, adaptable nature of the Internet. Did downloading stop when the Pirate Bay got crippled? No, it just moved and picked up elsewhere. The only really effective way to combat piracy is to do what PH has done and set up an uncrackable verification system - and even then there's complaints about that all the time. It would be pretty limiting to do that with music, as well.

But putting a Reason logo on things is more of a trademark violation, which is a somewhat different animal. At least in the US, trademarks have to be more vigorously prosecuted, or else a company risks losing control of them. If they let someone get away with selling something that looks like official merchandise, even if it's a few pieces, then there's a chance that they may have less legal standing if someone really bootlegs the hell out of Reason merch in the future. A judge may say, "well, you let these guys make Reason merch and you didn't do anything about it, so you don't have any cause to sue these other guys over stuff with your logo on it". Plus there's the issue of endorsements - someone might think you were actually linked to Propellerhead if you kept producing Reason items without any hassle.

In your case, you were trying to advertise your things on a forum which is probably the number-one gathering spot for Reason users, and where Propellerhead employees drop in from time to time. While it makes perfect sense to try and sell Reason-marked merch directly to the Reason crowd, it also created a situation where Propellerhead could not possibly ignore it. You did the equivalent of waving a big attention-getting flag in their face, and if their lawyers didn't advise them to take action over it, they weren't doing their jobs. If you had made one or two things just for yourself, they might have never known, if you hadn't shown them here. Plus making a single item for personal use is a bit different than actually trying to make a profit for yourself from someone else's trademarked logo.

So while you probably weren't going to damage the Reason brand seriously with a few items, I can easily understand why they clamped down on this.

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Heigen5
Posts: 229
Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Location: Lõvi-isa

Post 23 Nov 2018

platzangst wrote:
23 Nov 2018
Heigen5 wrote:
23 Nov 2018
The whole pirating thing can be really amusing though. The net is full of pirate-sites and the lawyers do nothing about it. But when someone makes few mugs then half of the world is like "How dare you"? And propably most of them have downloaded unlegal music at some point themself.
Attacking pirate sites is problematic for a variety of reasons. I lived through the days of Napster, when illegal downloading first took off, and the music companies quickly got a bad rep for doing things like suing teens and grandmas for outrageous sums of money for their illegal downloads. And then there's the fluid, adaptable nature of the Internet. Did downloading stop when the Pirate Bay got crippled? No, it just moved and picked up elsewhere. The only really effective way to combat piracy is to do what PH has done and set up an uncrackable verification system - and even then there's complaints about that all the time. It would be pretty limiting to do that with music, as well.

But putting a Reason logo on things is more of a trademark violation, which is a somewhat different animal. At least in the US, trademarks have to be more vigorously prosecuted, or else a company risks losing control of them. If they let someone get away with selling something that looks like official merchandise, even if it's a few pieces, then there's a chance that they may have less legal standing if someone really bootlegs the hell out of Reason merch in the future. A judge may say, "well, you let these guys make Reason merch and you didn't do anything about it, so you don't have any cause to sue these other guys over stuff with your logo on it". Plus there's the issue of endorsements - someone might think you were actually linked to Propellerhead if you kept producing Reason items without any hassle.

In your case, you were trying to advertise your things on a forum which is probably the number-one gathering spot for Reason users, and where Propellerhead employees drop in from time to time. While it makes perfect sense to try and sell Reason-marked merch directly to the Reason crowd, it also created a situation where Propellerhead could not possibly ignore it. You did the equivalent of waving a big attention-getting flag in their face, and if their lawyers didn't advise them to take action over it, they weren't doing their jobs. If you had made one or two things just for yourself, they might have never known, if you hadn't shown them here. Plus making a single item for personal use is a bit different than actually trying to make a profit for yourself from someone else's trademarked logo.

So while you probably weren't going to damage the Reason brand seriously with a few items, I can easily understand why they clamped down on this.
I 100% agree!
TBH, I don't usually do this kind of moves. As example, I have zero pirated softwares installed in these days. Been so for 8 years already. My sound-design that I sell, is 100% my stuff too.
I don't want to break rights and always aim to it. I think I was a bit misleaded to think, that I am some kind of a Reason Feature God or something like that. <-- so the Props would allow it for sure.
That and I was in an urgent need to earn cash... :oops:

User avatar
Loque
Posts: 4232
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 23 Nov 2018

Heigen5 wrote:
23 Nov 2018
platzangst wrote:
23 Nov 2018


Attacking pirate sites is problematic for a variety of reasons. I lived through the days of Napster, when illegal downloading first took off, and the music companies quickly got a bad rep for doing things like suing teens and grandmas for outrageous sums of money for their illegal downloads. And then there's the fluid, adaptable nature of the Internet. Did downloading stop when the Pirate Bay got crippled? No, it just moved and picked up elsewhere. The only really effective way to combat piracy is to do what PH has done and set up an uncrackable verification system - and even then there's complaints about that all the time. It would be pretty limiting to do that with music, as well.

But putting a Reason logo on things is more of a trademark violation, which is a somewhat different animal. At least in the US, trademarks have to be more vigorously prosecuted, or else a company risks losing control of them. If they let someone get away with selling something that looks like official merchandise, even if it's a few pieces, then there's a chance that they may have less legal standing if someone really bootlegs the hell out of Reason merch in the future. A judge may say, "well, you let these guys make Reason merch and you didn't do anything about it, so you don't have any cause to sue these other guys over stuff with your logo on it". Plus there's the issue of endorsements - someone might think you were actually linked to Propellerhead if you kept producing Reason items without any hassle.

In your case, you were trying to advertise your things on a forum which is probably the number-one gathering spot for Reason users, and where Propellerhead employees drop in from time to time. While it makes perfect sense to try and sell Reason-marked merch directly to the Reason crowd, it also created a situation where Propellerhead could not possibly ignore it. You did the equivalent of waving a big attention-getting flag in their face, and if their lawyers didn't advise them to take action over it, they weren't doing their jobs. If you had made one or two things just for yourself, they might have never known, if you hadn't shown them here. Plus making a single item for personal use is a bit different than actually trying to make a profit for yourself from someone else's trademarked logo.

So while you probably weren't going to damage the Reason brand seriously with a few items, I can easily understand why they clamped down on this.
I 100% agree!
TBH, I don't usually do this kind of moves. As example, I have zero pirated softwares installed in these days. Been so for 8 years already. My sound-design that I sell, is 100% my stuff too.
I don't want to break rights and always aim to it. I think I was a bit misleaded to think, that I am some kind of a Reason Feature God or something like that. <-- so the Props would allow it for sure.
That and I was in an urgent need to earn cash... :oops:
Dude, beside you are actually hiding behing a new name, we know you are trustworthy and i am sure, you wanted to do it right - that is why you contacted PH and that is the best thing you can do. And you accepted the answer from PH, even if you get p155ed, but that is your right. I am sure, you will catch yourself, go on, and do somethng awsome in the future!
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

User avatar
Heigen5
Posts: 229
Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Location: Lõvi-isa

Post 23 Nov 2018

Loque wrote:
23 Nov 2018
Heigen5 wrote:
23 Nov 2018


I 100% agree!
TBH, I don't usually do this kind of moves. As example, I have zero pirated softwares installed in these days. Been so for 8 years already. My sound-design that I sell, is 100% my stuff too.
I don't want to break rights and always aim to it. I think I was a bit misleaded to think, that I am some kind of a Reason Feature God or something like that. <-- so the Props would allow it for sure.
That and I was in an urgent need to earn cash... :oops:
Dude, beside you are actually hiding behing a new name, we know you are trustworthy and i am sure, you wanted to do it right - that is why you contacted PH and that is the best thing you can do. And you accepted the answer from PH, even if you get p155ed, but that is your right. I am sure, you will catch yourself, go on, and do somethng awsome in the future!
Thanks bro, Yeah, ---> :thumbs_up: :mrgreen:

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aeox
Posts: 1844
Joined: 23 Feb 2017
Location: Oregon

Post 23 Nov 2018

Heigen5 wrote:
23 Nov 2018
I think I was a bit misleaded to think, that I am some kind of a Reason Feature God or something like that. <-- so the Props would allow it for sure.
You talking about that feature that everyone was mentioning on the forums for a while and they finally implemented it? So you're thinking that they should reimburse you because you and others asked for a feature? :D
whoahh

Last edited by aeox on 24 May 2018, edited too many times in total.

User avatar
Loque
Posts: 4232
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 23 Nov 2018

aeox wrote:
23 Nov 2018
Heigen5 wrote:
23 Nov 2018
I think I was a bit misleaded to think, that I am some kind of a Reason Feature God or something like that. <-- so the Props would allow it for sure.
You talking about that feature that everyone was mentioning on the forums for a while and they finally implemented it? So you're thinking that they should reimburse you because you and others asked for a feature? :D
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:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

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Heigen5
Posts: 229
Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Location: Lõvi-isa

Post 23 Nov 2018

aeox wrote:
23 Nov 2018
Heigen5 wrote:
23 Nov 2018
I think I was a bit misleaded to think, that I am some kind of a Reason Feature God or something like that. <-- so the Props would allow it for sure.
You talking about that feature that everyone was mentioning on the forums for a while and they finally implemented it? So you're thinking that they should reimburse you because you and others asked for a feature? :D
There's lots of features that WE ALL have been wanting to be added and then there's those, that people suggested and were kind of leading to it, because it either was the first one, or because the way someone made the developers review/see the idea. But yeah, it's all good. Drawing down ideas and telling them to the rest rewards lots of us, I think.

User avatar
aeox
Posts: 1844
Joined: 23 Feb 2017
Location: Oregon

Post 23 Nov 2018

Heigen5 wrote:
23 Nov 2018
aeox wrote:
23 Nov 2018


You talking about that feature that everyone was mentioning on the forums for a while and they finally implemented it? So you're thinking that they should reimburse you because you and others asked for a feature? :D
There's lots of features that WE ALL have been wanting to be added and then there's those, that people suggested and were kind of leading to it, because it either was the first one, or because the way someone made the developers review/see the idea. But yeah, it's all good. Drawing down ideas and telling them to the rest rewards lots of us, I think.
You speak in riddles :P
whoahh

Last edited by aeox on 24 May 2018, edited too many times in total.

User avatar
Heigen5
Posts: 229
Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Location: Lõvi-isa

Post 23 Nov 2018

aeox wrote:
23 Nov 2018
Heigen5 wrote:
23 Nov 2018


There's lots of features that WE ALL have been wanting to be added and then there's those, that people suggested and were kind of leading to it, because it either was the first one, or because the way someone made the developers review/see the idea. But yeah, it's all good. Drawing down ideas and telling them to the rest rewards lots of us, I think.
You speak in riddles :P
How comes?

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