Goodbye Hydlide?

[eusti]

Just got Nectar 2 and have issues with reverb / delay tails too... (they get rendered in places they shouldn’t be) Not sure if this is 10.2 issue or happened before, because I just got the plugin. :/

D.

[antic604]

I can't understand why they do not communicating openly and inform Us weekly about the progress of the next update.

I already teach my 5 year old son that it is no problem to make mistakes if you apologize afterwards and make it good again. It is all about the communication.

Maybe I don't see something, but in my small limited world I just don't understand this behavior.

Can you imagine a backlash they'd have to face if they promised a feature, bug fix or specific improvement and then not delivered it in full and/or on time? In ideal world that's how companies that we pay money to should operate, but it's very, very rarely the case. I'm not aware of any DAW developer that's posting detailed roadmaps, also due to the risk of competition picking up the idea and going to market first.

[chimp_spanner]

I might've mentioned this before but if you want to see how totally open development (with roadmaps and pledges) can turn out, just look at Star Citizen. The more they promise or detail, the angrier people get when it doesn't happen.

[aeox]

I might've mentioned this before but if you want to see how totally open development (with roadmaps and pledges) can turn out, just look at Star Citizen. The more they promise or detail, the angrier people get when it doesn't happen.

Speaking of performance issues..


CIG seems to be delivering though. Now if they can just get their game to run at decent fps and no stutters

[chimp_spanner]

I might've mentioned this before but if you want to see how totally open development (with roadmaps and pledges) can turn out, just look at Star Citizen. The more they promise or detail, the angrier people get when it doesn't happen.

Speaking of performance issues..


CIG seems to be delivering though. Now if they can just get their game to run at decent fps and no stutters

My chances of ever running that game are exactly zero haha. My laptop is decent for music but the last game it ran well-ish was like, Far Cry 4. I'm a console pleb now.

[aeox]

Speaking of performance issues..


CIG seems to be delivering though. Now if they can just get their game to run at decent fps and no stutters

My chances of ever running that game are exactly zero haha. My laptop is decent for music but the last game it ran well-ish was like, Far Cry 4. I'm a console pleb now.

To be fair to them, they have technology in the works that has made vast improvements across the board for all machines(player testing started in patch 3.3) , now the high core count ryzen chips are shining extremely well in the game. With full implementation of "object container streaming" "bind culling" and the switch from Dx11 to Vulkan API.. it just might even run on your laptop

[Data_Shrine]

Even if one of you switches to another DAW at some point in time... you can still use Reason with it, just Rewire. Just be sure to make a default rewire template file for both Reason & your new DAW, after that it's an easy ride.

[fullforce]

Well, he's partly right - Reason renders its GUI using the CPU, so in my case (of relatively low-performance CPU and high-res screen) a DSP meter will usually jump one bar while scrolling the screen with lots of motion in it (rack, mixer) which will causes audible glitches & pops if I'm already at 5 bars.

That's the bad design.

[friday]

Can you imagine a backlash they'd have to face if they promised a feature, bug fix or specific improvement and then not delivered it in full and/or on time? In ideal world that's how companies that we pay money to should operate, but it's very, very rarely the case. I'm not aware of any DAW developer that's posting detailed roadmaps, also due to the risk of competition picking up the idea and going to market first.

You are right, good point, it is a bad idea to make a promise. But thats not my idea with the communication thing, it is hard for me to explain because of my bad english... I think there is a way in between, like a blog entry where you explain in some short sentences what the progeress and problems was this week. Information not promise, something like, "we tryed to have bether performance with silencing unused VST and wanted to test that already in 10.2... blabla... Now we tried to go back to a version without this vst silence thing, but we found out that there is no good roll back... so now decided to bugfix this problem before the performance release in version 10.2.1... blabla" why not share your own progress experience with your customers, especially if you've just built a big crap... sorry to say it again, but this vst reverb tail cuting bug is really a embarrassing thing.

Thoughts from my little world.

[chimp_spanner]

I think PH have been more communicative over the last year than they have done previously. Maybe it's still not enough for some but we at least know they're working on the optimisation. I think at one point even that would've been shrouded in mystery

Of course, like the rest of you, I'm itching to know how it's going.

[EnochLight]

Well, he's partly right - Reason renders its GUI using the CPU, so in my case (of relatively low-performance CPU and high-res screen) a DSP meter will usually jump one bar while scrolling the screen with lots of motion in it (rack, mixer) which will causes audible glitches & pops if I'm already at 5 bars.

That's the bad design.

I don't know if I'd call it bad, but it certainly needs improvement.

[botnotbot]

Well, he's partly right - Reason renders its GUI using the CPU, so in my case (of relatively low-performance CPU and high-res screen) a DSP meter will usually jump one bar while scrolling the screen with lots of motion in it (rack, mixer) which will causes audible glitches & pops if I'm already at 5 bars.

That's the bad design.

... When that design "decision" was made, not a single computer company was shipping (usable) GPU acceleration by default (an embedded S3 ViRGE in the motherboard absolutely doesn't count as an accelerator, let alone a "GPU").

[Faastwalker]

Be a shame if he moves away from Reason. He's a hugely prolific Reason video maker. Anyway, his choice.

[ast3rix]

Wow this is getting really serious.. Hydlide is a Reason OG. He sounds very serious on this video. He has purchased NI and has already started planning out how he's going to be able to create the way he's use to... not good. I have learned a great deal over the years from his videos... I'm getting emotional about this... I totally understand his position though.

He invested a serious amount of time in learning, teaching, and using Reason in ways... I know I probably never will. I totally understand that he expected to see mega performance improvements when he upgraded to that intel i9. I would expect blazing performance as well with a high core count. I know I've only seen marginal performance increases from my Mac Pro upgrade to a 12 core cpu with 64gb of ram. I no longer have to jack my buffer up to 2,300 to get things done, but things still get dicey when I'm running video capture and trying to build songs concurrently.

I'm definately not building out complex cv joined instruments or triple combinators either. I myself could easily transition as well... now a days I'm really finding that I'm using vst's only. I really hope that Propellerhead is honestly fixing the performance issues in a way that logically moves the product forward. I would really hate it if they released the performance build only to find it be a small cosmetic patch with some code optimizations. It would be a really slap in the face. I have been down that road of looking at other DAWs.. maybe I need to re-evaluate why I am staying with Reason... since I'm not really using the native RE's as much as I use to...???

[antic604]

Well, he's partly right - Reason renders its GUI using the CPU, so in my case (of relatively low-performance CPU and high-res screen) a DSP meter will usually jump one bar while scrolling the screen with lots of motion in it (rack, mixer) which will causes audible glitches & pops if I'm already at 5 bars.

That's the bad design.

As others have said, at the time it was the only viable option and to this day I think majority of DAWs still isn't GPU-accelerated, that's slowly changing though.

For Reason it is particulrly important, because once they eventually move to high resolution and changed nothing the CPU load would increase dramatically.

[jappe]

That's the bad design.

As others have said, at the time it was the only viable option and to this day I think majority of DAWs still isn't GPU-accelerated, that's slowly changing though.

For Reason it is particulrly important, because once they eventually move to high resolution and changed nothing the CPU load would increase dramatically.

I experience the problems with DSP meter going up when scrolling.
And this is on a machine that didn't have that problem before, so I don't see lack of GPU acceleration as the problem.
Further, I'm not sure if this has happened after a Reason patch or a Windows 10 patch.
It's as if it's a resource lock problem rather than a CPU performance problem.

[antic604]

As others have said, at the time it was the only viable option and to this day I think majority of DAWs still isn't GPU-accelerated, that's slowly changing though.

For Reason it is particulrly important, because once they eventually move to high resolution and changed nothing the CPU load would increase dramatically.

I experience the problems with DSP meter going up when scrolling.
And this is on a machine that didn't have that problem before, so I don't see lack of GPU acceleration as the problem.
Further, I'm not sure if this has happened after a Reason patch or a Windows 10 patch.
It's as if it's a resource lock problem rather than a CPU performance problem.

a) you might notice it more, because you're looking for it now as the DSP became more "precious" after introduction of VSTs,
b) the DSP bars aren't precise - there's 5 of them and single bar covers 20% of available DSP, therefore the meter might not jump while scrolling if you're at 25% and it might start jumping when you're at 35%, whereas both - when not scrolling - would show 2 DSP bars being used,

I also THINK (but I'm not sure) it's related to heperthreading being enabled or not. I THINK when it's ON, single logical core (1 out of 4 in my case) is reserved for GUI, whereas when it's OFF the load is "shared" with the actual DSP processing. With it ON, the diagnostic tools show 3 logical cores used a lot (like 90%) and the 4th is only at 15-20%. As a result, on the very same project, I THINK I hear clicks & pops sooner when hyperthreading is OFF when I scroll the Rack or Mixer. But on the flip side, if that's the case (1 logical core is reserved for rendering the GUI when it's ON) then overall I get more DSP available when it's OFF.

Screenshots to "prove" that:

- hyperthreading ON - notice the 4 blue meters in the right side of the Windows taskbar: 3 are filled in, 4th is barely used & I guess that's were GUI rendering is happening,



- hyperthreading OFF - notice how only 2 cores are used AND also how % CPU load in Task Manager is lower

[O1B]

Maybe, Hydlide'll get into eurorack!

Im sure he mentioned it once before.....

[antic604]

Maybe, Hydlide'll get into eurorack!

Im sure he mentioned it once before.....

Your sig checks out

[O1B]

Sir, yes Sir.

[fullforce]

As others have said, at the time it was the only viable option and to this day I think majority of DAWs still isn't GPU-accelerated, that's slowly changing though.

For Reason it is particulrly important, because once they eventually move to high resolution and changed nothing the CPU load would increase dramatically.

This is such nonsense. Back in what, 1992, John Carmack from ID games figured out a way to make a game smooth scroll (wasn't ever done before on a PC) by being a brilliant programmer and thinking outside the box (or screen, literally, read the book Masters of Doom for some details, it's an awesome read, especially if you played any ID games at some point in your life, which most of us probably have).

You don't need ANY gpu acceleration or black magic to make your screen NOT interfere with the audio. But it happens when you program your application inside a shitty loop. The biggest problem that Reason has, in my opinion, although I can't see the source code, is that they just stack shit on top of everything else and never ever re-think the real core (or engine) of the program that makes everything run smoothly. It's bad design. But you can't understand that unless you have some grasp of knowledge of how a computer actually works.

[Noplan]

first world problems. I open reason and make music without getting into significant problems.

[antic604]

As others have said, at the time it was the only viable option and to this day I think majority of DAWs still isn't GPU-accelerated, that's slowly changing though.

For Reason it is particulrly important, because once they eventually move to high resolution and changed nothing the CPU load would increase dramatically.

This is such nonsense. Back in what, 1992, John Carmack from ID games figured out a way to make a game smooth scroll (wasn't ever done before on a PC) by being a brilliant programmer and thinking outside the box (or screen, literally, read the book Masters of Doom for some details, it's an awesome read, especially if you played any ID games at some point in your life, which most of us probably have).

You don't need ANY gpu acceleration or black magic to make your screen NOT interfere with the audio. But it happens when you program your application inside a shitty loop. The biggest problem that Reason has, in my opinion, although I can't see the source code, is that they just stack shit on top of everything else and never ever re-think the real core (or engine) of the program that makes everything run smoothly. It's bad design. But you can't understand that unless you have some grasp of knowledge of how a computer actually works.

DAW is not a 3D game and majority of them wasn't GPU accelerated until very recently - that's what I meant.

Also, it's not that rendering the GUI "interferes" with audio! Both processes use the same, finite resource so simply if more is happening on the screen and the resolution is bigger, the less CPU is left available for audio. It's not that the audio suddenly stops to draw a VU meter. It's that drawing many VU meters at once lowers the number of Subtractors that can play the sound.

And with computer software everything runs in a loop, especially real-time applications like DAW.

Lastly, actually I've been coding in assembly by inserting hexadecimal numbers right into memory in early 90s, so yeah - I have a grasp of how computers work

[fullforce]

Also, it's not that rendering the GUI "interferes" with audio! Both processes use the same, finite resource so simply if more is happening on the screen and the resolution is bigger, the less CPU is left available for audio

lol. This is where I get off the crazy train. You don't have a clue.

[Faastwalker]

Maybe, Hydlide'll get into eurorack!

EVERYONE is getting into Eurorack. Software is DEAD! The bubble has burst.

'Plug-in' now means a new module that you plug-in to your Eurorack skiff