Goodbye Hydlide?

[Undistraction]

As others have said, at the time it was the only viable option and to this day I think majority of DAWs still isn't GPU-accelerated, that's slowly changing though.

For Reason it is particulrly important, because once they eventually move to high resolution and changed nothing the CPU load would increase dramatically.

This is such nonsense. Back in what, 1992, John Carmack from ID games figured out a way to make a game smooth scroll (wasn't ever done before on a PC) by being a brilliant programmer and thinking outside the box (or screen, literally, read the book Masters of Doom for some details, it's an awesome read, especially if you played any ID games at some point in your life, which most of us probably have).

You don't need ANY gpu acceleration or black magic to make your screen NOT interfere with the audio. But it happens when you program your application inside a shitty loop. The biggest problem that Reason has, in my opinion, although I can't see the source code, is that they just stack shit on top of everything else and never ever re-think the real core (or engine) of the program that makes everything run smoothly. It's bad design. But you can't understand that unless you have some grasp of knowledge of how a computer actually works.

This is exactly it. You could almost say that it's an FSS (NSFW).

[EnochLight]

This is exactly it. Reason is, essentially, what we call in the business an FSS (NSFW).

That's nonsense. But, I have to give major props to Kumail Nanjiani in that video - 4 years before he landed a role in Silicon Valley!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumail_Nanjiani

[Undistraction]

This is exactly it. Reason is, essentially, what we call in the business an FSS (NSFW).

That's nonsense. But, I have to give major props to Kumail Nanjiani in that video - 4 years before he landed a role in Silicon Valley!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumail_Nanjiani

Yes. It is nonsense, but a good opportunity to link to a Reggie Watts track.

[antic604]

Also, it's not that rendering the GUI "interferes" with audio! Both processes use the same, finite resource so simply if more is happening on the screen and the resolution is bigger, the less CPU is left available for audio

lol. This is where I get off the crazy train. You don't have a clue.

Then maybe elaborate and share your brilliance with us?

What I meant is that - normally - audio isn't stopped forcibly to draw the GUI, but has an allocated number of cycles and usually (so is the case with Reason) that allocation also goes down if DSP utilisation is high, so that the sound processing gets higher priority and GUI becomes less responsive. However, there will be a point where scrolling the screen will result in crackles as DAW cannot give full CPU to audio, because then the GUI wouldn't refresh and you wouldn't be even able to stop transport.

Offloading the GUI rendering to GPU would solve 95% of the problem, as there's still some CPU needed to prepare draw calls & send them to the GPU.

[marcuswitt]

first world problems. I open reason and make music without getting into significant problems.

Exactly! So do I.

[Jagwah]

Back in what, 1992, John Carmack from ID games figured out a way to make a game smooth scroll (wasn't ever done before on a PC) by being a brilliant programmer and thinking outside the box (or screen, literally, read the book Masters of Doom for some details, it's an awesome read, especially if you played any ID games at some point in your life, which most of us probably have)

Looks great will check it out thanks!!

[Aerond]

After many years with Reason I'm really hoping they bring that performance update soon. I'm seriously considering jumping to Ableton Live in the not so distant future. Things have gotten bad since VSTs were introduced.

Of course I get many VSTs will be CPU hungry, but with a modern 4-Core processor and 32Gb RAM I expect to be running everything smoothly and not things getting stuck if I try to run a couple of instances of Legend + Effects + a few VST's/RE instruments.

Seriously, Reason performance is bad nowadays compared to competition. No wonder some Reason legends abandon ship.

[stephensmattlee]

Made the jump to Ableton after toying around with it on and off over the past few years. It feels wrong in some way, like I’m cheating on someone where Reason has always held a special place for me.
That said I still plan on using Reason and rewiring it into Ableton as part of my workflow.
I really hope that the next update for Reason does bring it up to par with other daws that use VST. I guess I’ve invested too much in Reason to just turn my back on it. Still excited to see what the future holds for the software


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Creativemind]

Hope not. He's been a real help for me learning Reason.

And his tutorials will still be there.

[Creativemind]

I have a feeling that Reason will be getting a very nice Freeze in the Reason 11. It will be released in 2019.
That's the most acute thing to add at the moment I think.

Reading this thread, I was thinking a Track Freeze might come along with VST update later this year?

[fieldframe]

As others have said, at the time it was the only viable option and to this day I think majority of DAWs still isn't GPU-accelerated, that's slowly changing though.

For Reason it is particulrly important, because once they eventually move to high resolution and changed nothing the CPU load would increase dramatically.

This is such nonsense. Back in what, 1992, John Carmack from ID games figured out a way to make a game smooth scroll (wasn't ever done before on a PC) by being a brilliant programmer and thinking outside the box (or screen, literally, read the book Masters of Doom for some details, it's an awesome read, especially if you played any ID games at some point in your life, which most of us probably have).

You don't need ANY gpu acceleration or black magic to make your screen NOT interfere with the audio. But it happens when you program your application inside a shitty loop. The biggest problem that Reason has, in my opinion, although I can't see the source code, is that they just stack shit on top of everything else and never ever re-think the real core (or engine) of the program that makes everything run smoothly. It's bad design. But you can't understand that unless you have some grasp of knowledge of how a computer actually works.

Are you suggesting that Reason does UI and audio all on the main thread? The way scrolling causes DSP spikes, I’d believe it, but it just seems like an awfully dated architecture for a popular piece of software to be using in 2018.

[Heigen5]

I have a feeling that Reason will be getting a very nice Freeze in the Reason 11. It will be released in 2019.
That's the most acute thing to add at the moment I think.

Reading this thread, I was thinking a Track Freeze might come along with VST update later this year?

That would be awesome.

[Faastwalker]

Things have gotten bad since VSTs were introduced.

This was ALWAYS peoples main concern about opening up Reason to VST - that performance and stability would suffer. I have to say though, I’ve not seen much difference in performance since the change. Certainly if you’re going to be running some of the more demanding devices. VK-2 brings my machine to its knees on some of the patches. That’s before using anything else! Admittedly I don’t run many VST’s. I’ve only ever had a handful. But I did buy Arturia’s Music Easel V. Amazing plug-in. Runs like a dream in Reason.

I’m running a 3ghz i5 with 8gb of ram and Windows 10 64-bit. So I guess reasonably well specced. But we’re hearing from people with much higher specs that are having issues. So something is going on. Could it be more platform specific, dependent on what devices people are running in Reason? A lot of Mac users seem to be having more of their share of issues.

Would having freeze tracks negate these issues? I think Reason badly needs freeze tracks even if I don’t feel the need for it so much myself. My projects tend to be quite low key. I don’t have a huge number of tracks but often quite a lot of devices. Are freeze tracks pretty standard in other DAWs these days? I know Cubase has had it for along time. Maybe for Reason 11.

[Creativemind]

Reading this thread, I was thinking a Track Freeze might come along with VST update later this year?

That would be awesome.

Seems like quite a big feature for a point update but the reason I said that was, it would be a good move to tie in with the VST optimisation to have that option as well for an extra relief on the DSP.

[fullforce]

Are you suggesting that Reason does UI and audio all on the main thread? The way scrolling causes DSP spikes, I’d believe it, but it just seems like an awfully dated architecture for a popular piece of software to be using in 2018.

That's the bad design I'm suggesting, yes. Another example of bad design would be the handling of one chain of devices by one dedicated core. So you got bad design A offloading workload to bad design B. Sure, cheap ass way to do it, so you don't actually have to rethink your application, but it will bite your ass in the end, which is exactly what it's doing now.

[jlgrimes]

Things have gotten bad since VSTs were introduced.

This was ALWAYS peoples main concern about opening up Reason to VST - that performance and stability would suffer. I have to say though, I’ve not seen much difference in performance since the change. Certainly if you’re going to be running some of the more demanding devices. VK-2 brings my machine to its knees on some of the patches. That’s before using anything else! Admittedly I don’t run many VST’s. I’ve only ever had a handful. But I did buy Arturia’s Music Easel V. Amazing plug-in. Runs like a dream in Reason.

I’m running a 3ghz i5 with 8gb of ram and Windows 10 64-bit. So I guess reasonably well specced. But we’re hearing from people with much higher specs that are having issues. So something is going on. Could it be more platform specific, dependent on what devices people are running in Reason? A lot of Mac users seem to be having more of their share of issues.

Would having freeze tracks negate these issues? I think Reason badly needs freeze tracks even if I don’t feel the need for it so much myself. My projects tend to be quite low key. I don’t have a huge number of tracks but often quite a lot of devices. Are freeze tracks pretty standard in other DAWs these days? I know Cubase has had it for along time. Maybe for Reason 11.

Freeze is in just about every DAW.

Ableton, Sonar, Reaper, Studio One, Logic.


Most had it for over 10 years or so.

I think Reaper and Pro Tools were the last DAWS to get freeze, but that said Reaper was still able to freeze before the official feature was added because of it's high customization, users created freeze macros.

[Reasonable man]

Things have gotten bad since VSTs were introduced.

This was ALWAYS peoples main concern about opening up Reason to VST - that performance and stability would suffer. I have to say though, I’ve not seen much difference in performance since the change. Certainly if you’re going to be running some of the more demanding devices. VK-2 brings my machine to its knees on some of the patches. That’s before using anything else! Admittedly I don’t run many VST’s. I’ve only ever had a handful. But I did buy Arturia’s Music Easel V. Amazing plug-in. Runs like a dream in Reason.

I’m running a 3ghz i5 with 8gb of ram and Windows 10 64-bit. So I guess reasonably well specced. But we’re hearing from people with much higher specs that are having issues. So something is going on. Could it be more platform specific, dependent on what devices people are running in Reason? A lot of Mac users seem to be having more of their share of issues.

Would having freeze tracks negate these issues? I think Reason badly needs freeze tracks even if I don’t feel the need for it so much myself. My projects tend to be quite low key. I don’t have a huge number of tracks but often quite a lot of devices. Are freeze tracks pretty standard in other DAWs these days? I know Cubase has had it for along time. Maybe for Reason 11.

Vk-2 is the same for me. The thing sounds fantastic but i kinda think to myself what is the point of it if i can't use it?. The pad sounds are beautifull and yea alot of em use a 6 polyphony but they sound totally different if you start stripping that polyphony away. Sampling into the nn-xt is an option but stuttering with just ONE measely note rules that out too. I wonder if blamsoft and exode could give it a second look.

[rgdaniel]

Uh-oh...

[chimp_spanner]

I've tried watching this but I can't figure out what he's getting at. Can someone summarise? I'm still not sure what he's found out, or what he did to get his license revoked.

[rgdaniel]

Thank you, I'm glad it's not just me.

[jam-s]

I cannot find the clause, that would lead to a breach of the EULA by what I've seen in those videos. Only a very broad view of "reverse engineer" in
"2. [...]You agree not to modify, adapt, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or otherwise attempt to discover the source code of the Software. [...]"
could be seen a breach of the EULA. Still having a look at what tasks are spawned by a program that's acting strange is rather debugging than reverse engineering. And even then this passage of the EULA might not be legally binding in the EU.

[Faastwalker]

I've tried watching this but I can't figure out what he's getting at. Can someone summarize? I'm still not sure what he's found out, or what he did to get his license revoked.

License revoked? His Propellerhead Reason license?! Why would it have been revoked?

I don't really understand what he's going on about in that video either. Anyway the plot thickens. I think! I don't know.

[CephaloPod]

batch move by the Props. How petty.

edit: I fully retract this statement based on Mattias stating that nothing was revoked from Hydlide.

[CephaloPod]

edit. Deleted follow up post.

[Catblack]

He breaks out his Launchpad Pro at one point and says it made Reason unusable... I run two of them -- and I've sent him my codec, but he had different ideas as to what he wanted to do with his -- but I run two with no problems. (I was running mine next to Nico's Remanola codec on the other launchpad, but ran into a little issues there.) Now I'm not saying Hydlide wrote an inefficient codec, but I spent over a year optimizing mine.

It seems he's having issues with how Reason runs on his I9, I look forward to seeing his next video where he explains how he broke the EULA.