Conflict Creates Consciousness?

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normen
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21 Jun 2018

bxbrkrz wrote:
21 Jun 2018
This. :)

This phi factor is kind of interesting, a problem with it is that they don't REALLY understand what they have there. It's a bit as if Newton had made a neural net that found out about how objects move and fall - but now he has to find out the actual equations if he doesn't want to use that net all the time :D Could also turn out to be a quite narrow indicator for _anything_ really.

But yeah, he nicely puts together the logical issues around this topic - if you're into logic ;)

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bxbrkrz
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21 Jun 2018

normen wrote:
21 Jun 2018
bxbrkrz wrote:
21 Jun 2018
This. :)

This phi factor is kind of interesting, a problem with it is that they don't REALLY understand what they have there. It's a bit as if Newton had made a neural net that found out about how objects move and fall - but now he has to find out the actual equations if he doesn't want to use that net all the time :D Could also turn out to be a quite narrow indicator for _anything_ really.

But yeah, he nicely puts together the logical issues around this topic - if you're into logic ;)
The phi factor: is it based on IQ scores, or a living creature's awareness of its environment?
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normen
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21 Jun 2018

bxbrkrz wrote:
21 Jun 2018
The phi factor: is it based on IQ scores, or a living creature's awareness of its environment?
I tried to understand it but didn't really - I think the actual paper isn't public (i.e. behind paywalls). But generally speaking it's more of a measure of a certain kind complexity, not really human intelligence per se. They applied it to neural nets and other things as well and interestingly the phi factor of neural nets doesn't get that high, even if you raise their complexity. But thats what I mean when I say it's all a bit fuzzy, the measuring process isn't quite clear and what parameters you give it seems a bit random.

In humans I think they measure a certain complexity in how the neurons fire. The interesting part is that they actually had a phi value where every person they measured was unconscious below that value and conscious above that value - something which afaik neurology didn't even have.

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bxbrkrz
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21 Jun 2018

normen wrote:
21 Jun 2018
bxbrkrz wrote:
21 Jun 2018
The phi factor: is it based on IQ scores, or a living creature's awareness of its environment?
I tried to understand it but didn't really - I think the actual paper isn't public (i.e. behind paywalls). But generally speaking it's more of a measure of a certain kind complexity, not really human intelligence per se. They applied it to neural nets and other things as well and interestingly the phi factor of neural nets doesn't get that high, even if you raise their complexity. But thats what I mean when I say it's all a bit fuzzy, the measuring process isn't quite clear and what parameters you give it seems a bit random.

In humans I think they measure a certain complexity in how the neurons fire. The interesting part is that they actually had a phi value where every person they measured was unconscious below that value and conscious above that value - something which afaik neurology didn't even have.
OK. The last part is interesting. I wonder if the Phi factor would change, depending on the kind of proceeding (drug, deep hypnoses etc...) used to induce the state of unconsciousness. Do you need to be in sensory deprivation tank, or a simple bed in a bright room? So many questions.
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normen
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21 Jun 2018

bxbrkrz wrote:
21 Jun 2018
OK. The last part is interesting. I wonder if the Phi factor would change, depending on the kind of proceeding (drug, deep hypnoses etc...) used to induce the state of unconsciousness. Do you need to be in sensory deprivation tank, or a simple bed in a bright room? So many questions.
Definitely. I just hope youtube videos in the vein of "The inner magic of phi and the Andromedans Qui Gong Mayan calendar" are some time off still ;)

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bxbrkrz
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21 Jun 2018

normen wrote:
21 Jun 2018
bxbrkrz wrote:
21 Jun 2018
OK. The last part is interesting. I wonder if the Phi factor would change, depending on the kind of proceeding (drug, deep hypnoses etc...) used to induce the state of unconsciousness. Do you need to be in sensory deprivation tank, or a simple bed in a bright room? So many questions.
Definitely. I just hope youtube videos in the vein of "The inner magic of phi and the Andromedans Qui Gong Mayan calendar" are some time off still ;)
Too late. There it is. A perfect illustration of the Consciousness collective :puf_smile:
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normen
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21 Jun 2018

bxbrkrz wrote:
21 Jun 2018
Too late. There it is. A perfect illustration of the Consciousness collective :puf_smile:
Hehe. I think youtubes codec flattened out the 5th dimension there ;)

But yeah, I really love any and every idea about this topic except dogmatic and illogical (as in easily disproved by thought or real experiments) stuff. I for example have a hard time ascribing any importance to us as we are here with our brains, discussing on the interwebs. Still I'm not completely denying the possibility that we including our memoires and stuff have some kind of importance outside of the ones we make up in the existential sense.

But some people are simply hell bent on implying that kind of importance - in the sense of "god made us so we're important" or even "I just find myself so important that I can't let go of the idea that I am".. Then with some people you can't even begin to discuss with them unless you explain consciousness in terms of the standard model of physics.. Both are ultimately trapped in pretty sad universes :)

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bxbrkrz
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21 Jun 2018

normen wrote:
21 Jun 2018
bxbrkrz wrote:
21 Jun 2018
Too late. There it is. A perfect illustration of the Consciousness collective :puf_smile:
Hehe. I think youtubes codec flattened out the 5th dimension there ;)

But yeah, I really love any and every idea about this topic except dogmatic and illogical stuff. I for example have a hard time ascribing any importance to us as we are here with our brains, discussing on the interwebs. Still I'm not completely denying the possibility that we including our memoires and stuff have some kind of importance outside of the ones we make up in the existential sense.

But some people are simply hell bent on implying that kind of importance - in the sense of "god made us so we're important" or even "I just find myself so important that I can't let go of the idea that I am".. Then with some people you can't even begin to discuss with them unless you explain consciousness in terms of the standard model of physics.. Both are ultimately trapped in pretty sad universes :)
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. Genesis 1:27. The Angel of Light believed we were a mistake.. It's a multi billion year old on going debate between Heaven and Hell.

We exist so we can write our own future, make choices create worlds, and one day our own cosmos. Unlike other living things we understand this. Sadly we may be very predictable and be trapped in a loop of wrong choices and close-mindedness. That say if the universe was created perfectly, like a diamond, with a perfect distribution of 'energy', consciousness, the first spark maybe born out of a conflict, would've never existed. The non uniformity of everything is what makes us all, trapped in happy and sad universes. :puf_smile:
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normen
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22 Jun 2018

bxbrkrz wrote:
21 Jun 2018

So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. Genesis 1:27. The Angel of Light believed we were a mistake.. It's a multi billion year old on going debate between Heaven and Hell.
Hehe, right xD Almost better than Xenu ;) And much more important :lol:

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bxbrkrz
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22 Jun 2018

normen wrote:
22 Jun 2018
bxbrkrz wrote:
21 Jun 2018

So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. Genesis 1:27. The Angel of Light believed we were a mistake.. It's a multi billion year old on going debate between Heaven and Hell.
Hehe, right xD Almost better than Xenu ;) And much more important :lol:
To be aware of this is a burden some of us can't bare. Laughter is Nature's Prozac against impossible answers, facing the absolute unknown of the void. Laugh it off. You keep living happy. Don't and your mind gets swallowed whole by the Oblivion :twisted:
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normen
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22 Jun 2018

bxbrkrz wrote:
22 Jun 2018
normen wrote:
22 Jun 2018


Hehe, right xD Almost better than Xenu ;) And much more important :lol:
To be aware of this is a burden some of us can't bare. Laughter is Nature's Prozac against impossible answers, facing the absolute unknown of the void. Laugh it off. You keep living happy. Don't and your mind gets swallowed whole by the Oblivion :twisted:
Yeah, laughter is when logic doesn‘t work anymore :) But you‘re right too many mix it with fear (or rather angst).

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bxbrkrz
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23 Jun 2018




Is green the color of Consciousness?

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normen
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25 Jun 2018

Just to give a bone to the "I create my own universe" people in this discussion...

Mathematically speaking making a universe costs nothing. All energies basically cancel each other out so in the end it's like the monetary system, theres always as much debt as there is money. So if any physicist wants to tell you it's impossible to create your own universe you can throw this at them ;)

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selig
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25 Jun 2018

I tend to believe duality creates conflict, or duality IS conflict.

I also believe you can have consciousness without duality. Which is to say I believe consciousness exists outside of this universe of duality.

Therefore I don’t believe conflict creates consciousness.


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Ostermilk
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25 Jun 2018

I wonder, if at any time Woody Allen ever had any input on this subject?

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bxbrkrz
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25 Jun 2018

Ostermilk wrote:
25 Jun 2018
I wonder, if at any time Woody Allen ever had any input on this subject?
I doubt it. This subject is too old for him. More than 13 billion years old. :geek:
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bxbrkrz
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25 Jun 2018

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bxbrkrz
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14 Aug 2018

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jappe
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15 Aug 2018

Interesting.


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jam-s
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15 Aug 2018

Some more possible mind blows:

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Marco Raaphorst
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15 Aug 2018

It's a matter of words:


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