Are you against GMOs too? Then hear me out.

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normen
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17 Feb 2018

100% agree on the corporation thing, good to see that many people start to discern more between the technology itself and whats being done with it in the context of corporations.

Also agree 100% that such important things should be open and accessible. That is without corporations having to make money off of it. Or the rest of humanity having to hope that some billionaire gets the idea to invest some money into solving actual problems instead of a yacht. The money for these kinds of things should just come out of the system by default (to divert the discussion even further ;)).

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eusti
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17 Feb 2018

I don't think I've made up my mind completely yet, but if all is dandy and totally not harmful, why can't we have it labeled?
I mean that way everyone can decided for themselves if they want to consume GMOs or not...

D.

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motuscott
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18 Feb 2018

eusti wrote:
17 Feb 2018
I don't think I've made up my mind completely yet, but if all is dandy and totally not harmful, why can't we have it labeled?
I mean that way everyone can decided for themselves if they want to consume GMOs or not...

D.
Our leaders and their corporate masters have decided we don't need to know.
Corporations are people. Let's not hurt their feelies.
Who’s using the royal plural now baby? 🧂

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normen
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18 Feb 2018

motuscott wrote:
18 Feb 2018
Corporations are people. Let's not hurt their feelies.
And apparently they don't die of old age either :?

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normen
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18 Feb 2018

eusti wrote:
17 Feb 2018
I don't think I've made up my mind completely yet, but if all is dandy and totally not harmful, why can't we have it labeled?
I mean that way everyone can decided for themselves if they want to consume GMOs or not...
Sure, like a scan with the phone and you can "zoom in" on any part of the production, have somebody (independent) explain the science behind the proceedings, look into every nook and cranny of the factories (and books for that matter). But actual warning labels and the opposite "gluten and gmo free for your safety!" is not what "informative labeling" means.

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JNeffLind
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18 Feb 2018

I'm with you one hundred percent Normen. Most people against GMOs don't really understand the science, much less the issues of feeding an ever growing population. I think for most people it's just a "gut reaction." Gut reactions aren't always right, especially when working with limited understanding.

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normen
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18 Feb 2018

JNeffLind wrote:
18 Feb 2018
I'm with you one hundred percent Normen. Most people against GMOs don't really understand the science, much less the issues of feeding an ever growing population. I think for most people it's just a "gut reaction." Gut reactions aren't always right, especially when working with limited understanding.
Right, thats why I also think that this is different than the "I'm a vegan" thing. With veganism people know the facts, they know that theres probably animals being abused for the meat they eat, that theres a lot of energy wasted "converting" plants to meat etc. but they chose to deal with that information differently (I do too). So shoving that information down their throats will at best make them throw up.

With GMOs I already experienced it personally that people quickly change their opinion when they're presented with the actual facts. For example, what I see often is something like this:
  • Person X hears about GMOs and that theres apparently genes being modified in the organisms.
  • They see a report on the news where they hear about Monsanto and somehow resistant plants
  • They see images of tractors spraying something onto the crop
  • They see some scientist rounding up the complicated facts as "we checked it and it's safe"
  • They see come activist going off on a tangent on what a change in nature can generally mean (pretty much anything)
  • They now believe that the companies spray chemicals into the world that change the genes of stuff
This is the important bit that I see repeated over and over in my private encounters with this topic. Somehow the whole combination of weed killers and the general discussion being quite complicated created this impression that theres now "gene changing agents" in the world, that we somehow accelerate something in nature. But nothing could be further from the truth, as said literally EVERYTHING we do now could have happened in the past already, even by random mutations in "nature".

...some even more worrying data from representative surveys in the US shows that up to 50% of people select an answer that amounts to something like "Only GMO modified organisms contain genes", 80% agree to labeling like "contains DNA" :? :? :?

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JNeffLind
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18 Feb 2018

normen wrote:
18 Feb 2018

[*]They now believe that the companies spray chemicals into the world that change the genes of stuff
[/list]

As ludicrous as this sounds from a scientific perspective, I think you're right. People believe somehow that a GMO crop will modify their own genes or poison them. In many cases GMO crops are actually healthier or better for the environment. But hippies gonna hippy. Life goes on.

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bxbrkrz
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18 Feb 2018

normen wrote:
18 Feb 2018
motuscott wrote:
18 Feb 2018
Corporations are people. Let's not hurt their feelies.
And apparently they don't die of old age either :?
If you have access to Netflix check out Altered Carbon. You'll have your answer. :D
757365206C6F67696320746F207365656B20616E73776572732075736520726561736F6E20746F2066696E6420776973646F6D20676574206F7574206F6620796F757220636F6D666F7274207A6F6E65206F7220796F757220696E737069726174696F6E2077696C6C206372797374616C6C697A6520666F7265766572

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normen
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18 Feb 2018

bxbrkrz wrote:
18 Feb 2018
If you have access to Netflix check out Altered Carbon. You'll have your answer. :D
Yeah, well. It's a cool fiction and I eagerly wait for the next season but I don't think it really depicts reality in that respect :) (I mean what people and society would "inevitably" end up like etc.) And a corporations "mind" does NOT work like a humans does, despite them arguably being actual "entities" with their own agenda.

I was rather talking about the legal context in which the personification of corporations is used which is most of the time ludicrous. Next time your bank tells you you can't have a loan because of a DUI ask them for their list of settlements and convictions ;)

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bxbrkrz
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18 Feb 2018

normen wrote:
18 Feb 2018
bxbrkrz wrote:
18 Feb 2018
If you have access to Netflix check out Altered Carbon. You'll have your answer. :D
Yeah, well. It's a cool fiction and I eagerly wait for the next season but I don't think it really depicts reality in that respect :) And a corporations "mind" does NOT work like a humans does, despite them arguably being actual "entities" with their own agenda.

I was rather talking about the legal context in which the personification of corporations is used which is most of the time ludicrous. Next time your bank tells you you can't have a loan because of a DUI ask them for their list of settlements and convictions ;)
Not wanting to derail the thread but.

Great science fiction stories have the power of foresight. Of course it is not based on our reality or everyday experience. I cried, laughing when I saw Captain Kirk getting a print out for a new mission, or result etc, while the Enterprise is going full blast across the galaxy. Hard to imagine the future.

I see no reason why people won't be fully recognized as corporations if: they can live forever and have a limitless data storage capacity. You reduce the focal point of Trust to one "individual". You eliminate multiple "minds". You reduce the risk of espionage. Turning a corporation into one human. Sounds crazy but we are talking science fiction 100s of years from now (or sooner).

Dont' be scared but... We are almost there regarding what you can do with your own money. Example: a 100% perfect profile of your genetic make up can predict if you may develop a type of illness one day, years from your first days of life. A full genetic profile could cost money. Unless, maybe a corporation can provide it for free, just like gmail or searching anything on the Internet. You can pay, just like you can pay for your email service. Most people will not pay and will chose the free genetic scan. The scan is not free and Google sells your information to life insurance companies. Now insurance companies will know if it is worth it to deal with you and at what cost. Some banks are in the life insurance business. They will consolidate the files they have on you, to "streamline" your existence, to make it easy for you, to give you a better service.
Your DNA profile says you have greater than 50% to become an alcoholic. Your life insurance will monitor your purchase and internet browsing habit, via ads sense or other cookie like trackers. Your bank will know if giving you a loan is a risk or not as everything is connected.

Sounds crazy but right now, people are losing their job because of a tweet they wrote years ago. Guilty! No need for due process. Anyone can be an executioner. No job, no money, no food. Death. Tomorrow the same executioners will have access to your DNA profile, days after your birth.

Sounds like I just wrote part of Season 2 :lol:

Back to the GMO debate.
757365206C6F67696320746F207365656B20616E73776572732075736520726561736F6E20746F2066696E6420776973646F6D20676574206F7574206F6620796F757220636F6D666F7274207A6F6E65206F7220796F757220696E737069726174696F6E2077696C6C206372797374616C6C697A6520666F7265766572

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normen
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18 Feb 2018

bxbrkrz wrote:
18 Feb 2018
normen wrote:
18 Feb 2018


Yeah, well. It's a cool fiction and I eagerly wait for the next season but I don't think it really depicts reality in that respect :) And a corporations "mind" does NOT work like a humans does, despite them arguably being actual "entities" with their own agenda.

I was rather talking about the legal context in which the personification of corporations is used which is most of the time ludicrous. Next time your bank tells you you can't have a loan because of a DUI ask them for their list of settlements and convictions ;)
Not wanting to derail the thread but.

Great science fiction stories have the power of foresight. Of course it is not based on our reality or everyday experience. I cried, laughing when I saw Captain Kirk getting a print out for a new mission, or result etc, while the Enterprise is going full blast across the galaxy. Hard to imagine the future.

I see no reason why people won't be fully recognized as corporations if: they can live forever and have a limitless data storage capacity. You reduce the focal point of Trust to one "individual". You eliminate multiple "minds". You reduce the risk of espionage. Turning a corporation into one human. Sounds crazy but we are talking science fiction 100s of years from now (or sooner).

Dont' be scared but... We are almost there regarding what you can do with your own money. Example: a 100% perfect profile of your genetic make up can predict if you may develop a type of illness one day, years from your first days of life. A full genetic profile could cost money. Unless, maybe a corporation can provide it for free, just like gmail or searching anything on the Internet. You can pay, just like you can pay for your email service. Most people will not pay and will chose the free genetic scan. The scan is not free and Google sells your information to life insurance companies. Now insurance companies will know if it is worth it to deal with you and at what cost. Some banks are in the life insurance business. They will consolidate the files they have on you, to "streamline" your existence, to make it easy for you, to give you a better service.
Your DNA profile says you have greater than 50% to become an alcoholic. Your life insurance will monitor your purchase and internet browsing habit, via ads sense or other cookie like trackers. Your bank will know if giving you a loan is a risk or not as everything is connected.

Sounds crazy but right now, people are losing their job because of a tweet they wrote years ago. Guilty! No need for due process. Anyone can be an executioner. No job, no money, no food. Death. Tomorrow the same executioners will have access to your DNA profile, days after your birth.

Sounds like I just wrote part of Season 2 :lol:

Back to the GMO debate.
Well I think all of that uses too many assumptions that are extrapolated as in the graph I posted above. Sure some things point in certain directions now but what we as humanity actually make from it always escaped dystopians, utopians and everyone in between trying to imagine our future. And most of the time it just got more pleasant - obviously with fluctuations :)

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bxbrkrz
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18 Feb 2018

normen wrote:
18 Feb 2018
bxbrkrz wrote:
18 Feb 2018


Not wanting to derail the thread but.

Great science fiction stories have the power of foresight. Of course it is not based on our reality or everyday experience. I cried, laughing when I saw Captain Kirk getting a print out for a new mission, or result etc, while the Enterprise is going full blast across the galaxy. Hard to imagine the future.

I see no reason why people won't be fully recognized as corporations if: they can live forever and have a limitless data storage capacity. You reduce the focal point of Trust to one "individual". You eliminate multiple "minds". You reduce the risk of espionage. Turning a corporation into one human. Sounds crazy but we are talking science fiction 100s of years from now (or sooner).

Dont' be scared but... We are almost there regarding what you can do with your own money. Example: a 100% perfect profile of your genetic make up can predict if you may develop a type of illness one day, years from your first days of life. A full genetic profile could cost money. Unless, maybe a corporation can provide it for free, just like gmail or searching anything on the Internet. You can pay, just like you can pay for your email service. Most people will not pay and will chose the free genetic scan. The scan is not free and Google sells your information to life insurance companies. Now insurance companies will know if it is worth it to deal with you and at what cost. Some banks are in the life insurance business. They will consolidate the files they have on you, to "streamline" your existence, to make it easy for you, to give you a better service.
Your DNA profile says you have greater than 50% to become an alcoholic. Your life insurance will monitor your purchase and internet browsing habit, via ads sense or other cookie like trackers. Your bank will know if giving you a loan is a risk or not as everything is connected.

Sounds crazy but right now, people are losing their job because of a tweet they wrote years ago. Guilty! No need for due process. Anyone can be an executioner. No job, no money, no food. Death. Tomorrow the same executioners will have access to your DNA profile, days after your birth.

Sounds like I just wrote part of Season 2 :lol:

Back to the GMO debate.
Well I think all of that uses too many assumptions that are extrapolated as in the graph I posted above. Sure some things point in certain directions now but what we as humanity actually make from it always escaped dystopians, utopians and everyone in between trying to imagine our future. And most of the time it just got more pleasant - obviously with fluctuations :)
Yes. Keyword: humanity. AI, if Musk and Hawkins are right, will be writing our next chapter in Dystopian 2.0. I trust Google 100% ;)

So what's for dinner? GMO yellow or GMO "glowing in the dark" blue?
757365206C6F67696320746F207365656B20616E73776572732075736520726561736F6E20746F2066696E6420776973646F6D20676574206F7574206F6620796F757220636F6D666F7274207A6F6E65206F7220796F757220696E737069726174696F6E2077696C6C206372797374616C6C697A6520666F7265766572

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normen
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18 Feb 2018

bxbrkrz wrote:
18 Feb 2018
normen wrote:
18 Feb 2018


Well I think all of that uses too many assumptions that are extrapolated as in the graph I posted above. Sure some things point in certain directions now but what we as humanity actually make from it always escaped dystopians, utopians and everyone in between trying to imagine our future. And most of the time it just got more pleasant - obviously with fluctuations :)
Yes. Keyword: humanity. AI, if Musk and Hawkins are right, will be writing our next chapter in Dystopian 2.0. I trust Google 100% ;)

So what's for dinner? GMO yellow or GMO "glowing in the dark" blue?
Well for AI I think people like Musk and especially Kurzweil (despite his great Synths ;)) over-estimate what they can do with their technology. There is absolutely zero indication that this stuff will at some point become sentient or conscious. Its networks that can recognize patterns, alright. Thats what our brain does for us as well but theres no indication that a whole bunch of pattern recognition makes up a conscious being. Even the simplest worm, simulated down to every atom and quark we know of doesn't "live". You can prod it electrically and it jerks but not more.

I see it more like a new "global prefrontal cortex" for us, it will extend us - like it already does, we are talking to each other sitting on different ends of the world, exchanging opinions :) At some point we will feel how hungry the whole of humanity is because we are connected to a network that prepares that info for us and literally brings it to our attention :o :geek:

Edit: Theres a way where you could look at humanity as the earths central nervous system. Just like the brain it's pretty selfish, it demands all the last resources for itself (just like the brain when we die) but maybe we were just going though puberty and now we somehow arrive in adulthood, thinking about the whole body and the consequences of our actions.

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bxbrkrz
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19 Feb 2018

normen wrote:
18 Feb 2018
bxbrkrz wrote:
18 Feb 2018

Yes. Keyword: humanity. AI, if Musk and Hawkins are right, will be writing our next chapter in Dystopian 2.0. I trust Google 100% ;)

So what's for dinner? GMO yellow or GMO "glowing in the dark" blue?
Well for AI I think people like Musk and especially Kurzweil (despite his great Synths ;)) over-estimate what they can do with their technology. There is absolutely zero indication that this stuff will at some point become sentient or conscious. Its networks that can recognize patterns, alright. Thats what our brain does for us as well but theres no indication that a whole bunch of pattern recognition makes up a conscious being. Even the simplest worm, simulated down to every atom and quark we know of doesn't "live". You can prod it electrically and it jerks but not more.

I see it more like a new "global prefrontal cortex" for us, it will extend us - like it already does, we are talking to each other sitting on different ends of the world, exchanging opinions :) At some point we will feel how hungry the whole of humanity is because we are connected to a network that prepares that info for us and literally brings it to our attention :o :geek:

Edit: Theres a way where you could look at humanity as the earths central nervous system. Just like the brain it's pretty selfish, it demands all the last resources for itself (just like the brain when we die) but maybe we were just going though puberty and now we somehow arrive in adulthood, thinking about the whole body and the consequences of our actions.
I love Musk's cheerleading us into believing we don't need to wait a 1000 years to open a Tesla store on Mars. I loved the name Kurzweil more than I love my K2000 (already sold to Young Chang back then).
Musk believes the universe is a computer simulation. Kurzweil is not ready to die anytime soon, or ever (dude is getting younger and younger looking).
Errare humanum est, perseverare autem diabolicum
They believe (Kurzweil et al.) they know what consciousness is. They believe they can recreate it with codes. We use our consciousness for a lot of things. To judge people, put men on the moon, kill millions, asking if God exists, describe the texture of ice cream, remembering a long forgotten childhood memory from a scent, pass an exam, believe actors are not fake crying when receiving an Oscar, to have a sense of humor or derision, lying for a good cause (my belief is true, yours obviously evil). We use it to argue that life has no meaning, and argue about it more, impervious to the irony.

They believe they can code all of this and will use their consciousness (and everything they understand as life) as the foundation for their AI. And that might be the problem: the AI will not have a consciousness (Qualia), because the "hard problem of consciousness" has yet to be simulated, measured, compared and stored first. A crow is smarter than a dog when solving a very difficult puzzle, but a dog has a bigger brain. Could it be that something else is in charge of Qualia, just not the brain? A neurosurgeon will tell you no, a psychologist will tell you no.

It is most likely Dystopian 2.0 will happen because the AI will lack consciousness, than having one.

We exchange opinions publicly if we are allowed to, based on our regional laws, feelings and culture. They use the little AI they have now to nudge opinions, erase discussions, help arrest humans with the wrong thoughts, so not to lose a big market. Is this the kind of "extension" we want?

Our ego put us in the middle of everything. In the center of the universe, or the nervous system of Gaia. It is hard to think differently, or maybe impossible. We push our experience into inanimate objects or animals, sometimes believing they talk back and share our joy or pain. They might, but we don't know how, since they are across, on the other side of the mirror.

I have decided yelllow GMO tastes better. :puf_smile:
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normen
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19 Feb 2018

Exactly, 100% agree except on the conclusions. My conclusion is that my consciousness seems to know best what consciousness is so I'll consciously decide that it knows that all of these shenanigans won't really change anything, just like they never did. Think about how far we actually are from what our body still thinks we are - did it turn us into psychopaths and created dystopian empires? On small islands that get ever smaller - maybe :)

Can't wait for my glow in the dark cat, been calling that fucker for hours now :P

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moneykube
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19 Feb 2018

I say no to GMO's... human experiment patent 3bz3334Ur987Fucked... pandemic overdue ....swine flu anyone?
they add plastic to rice
Gmo... pesticide raised... no free range chickens
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normen
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19 Feb 2018

moneykube wrote:
19 Feb 2018
I say no to GMO's... human experiment patent 3bz3334Ur987Fucked... pandemic overdue ....swine flu anyone?
they add plastic to rice
Gmo... pesticide raised... no free range chickens
I see a lot of funny stuff around here but you made me chuckle, thanks, honestly :)

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EnochLight
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19 Feb 2018

normen wrote:
16 Feb 2018
Since we first planted seeds deliberately to harvest the fruit we engaged in genetically modifying crops. Since the 1920s and earlier we used poison, radiation and other means to randomly create mutations that we then selected by eyesight. The crops and animals we eat these days are all the result of these tens of thousands of years of this random gene editing.

So now we do it in an even more deliberate way. We do not create totally random changes anymore. Everything we do now could have happened without us knowing in the past, including what some would call a mix of species. There is only one species when it comes to DNA.

So am I against big companies making farmers dependent on them? Hell yes. Am I against decimating animal habitats for mutant crops? Totally.

But do I want humanity to starve to a size where it can sustain itself as a hunter-gatherer tribe, the only way that could arguably be called natural as in a world untouched by human intelligence? Doomed on a rock floating through space, ignoring its own possibilities? No way.

I do respect that I live in a society that seems to largely have a different opinion but I also feel that many people fall victim to misinformation about this topic.

Sorry for the interruption.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hYZaqYCZyQ
I have absolutely no problem with GMO's, and in fact - I strongly encourage it. All of this GMO-fear mongering is ridiculous, and something to slap on label on the side of a box to sell to customers who don't know any better.

Fun fact: if we're ever to survive as a species off of this rock floating in space, we'll have to practice some GMO on ourselves. We're not equipped to live on any other planet than the one we evolved on, and getting to other planets - even if it takes us 1000 years to figure out how - we'll need to change ourselves to adapt. Let that one sink in for a while! ;)
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normen
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19 Feb 2018

EnochLight wrote:
19 Feb 2018
we'll need to change ourselves to adapt. Let that one sink in for a while! ;)
We are changing right now :) Not just on the level of memes (as in referencing genes, not cat pictures) but also on the level of genes. Asperger and autistic types have more "value" in society, there is massive changes to how we give birth etc. etc.

As for deliberate changes - it will happen but as with my general stance on this - it will happen before us and with us. So we'll handle it as badly as most other things with the unexpected positive outcome ;)

Edit: When I was more on the darker side in my younger days (i.e. thinking the world will collapse) I found out another way: Theres only two ways this can end: One is pretty much Mad Max and the other is Star Trek. I will not live in Mad Max, my brains will be splattered across the next street. So for ME there is only one future :D

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stratatonic
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19 Feb 2018

bxbrkrz wrote:
18 Feb 2018
So what's for dinner? GMO yellow or GMO "glowing in the dark" blue?
Whatever has more Vitamin A in it.

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motuscott
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20 Feb 2018

I vote Mor Pie!
This species has failed the audition...
Next!
Who’s using the royal plural now baby? 🧂

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bxbrkrz
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20 Feb 2018

normen wrote:
19 Feb 2018
Exactly, 100% agree except on the conclusions. My conclusion is that my consciousness seems to know best what consciousness is so I'll consciously decide that it knows that all of these shenanigans won't really change anything, just like they never did. Think about how far we actually are from what our body still thinks we are - did it turn us into psychopaths and created dystopian empires? On small islands that get ever smaller - maybe :)

Can't wait for my glow in the dark cat, been calling that fucker for hours now :P
Your glow in the dark cat is already conspiring to take over the world. No time for you.

Another thing I forgot to point out: I don't see the proof that we, at this stage (of Evolution/Spirituality/Technology), should be considered "adults". Maybe there is a giant reset button every 3000 years or so, forcing us to start over and over again. So who knows how many times in the past Dystopian Worlds were built, then destroyed. Maybe there were a reason to write History using clay or stones in the past, invulnerable to massive solar storms that will erase everything we have stored digitally today.
Our present consciousness rejects massive remains from the past we see, but can't rebuild with "ancient" or today's technology. We assume for a fact humans before us were not that advanced, and we, right now are much smarter. The paradox is we also still teach the ancient philosophers as the greatest minds ever (with *good* reasons). We only have one tool, our consciousness, to understand and decide what to believe. We are stuck in a loop. It could be a natural loop. The only way to know is to get out of the loop.
But... by consciously and collectively starting the awareness of the loop we are all trapped in and wanting to get out of it, could be the mechanism that triggers the automatic giant reset button. :shock:

Nature created humans. Humans created GMOs. GMOs is Nature. Humans created Nature. Soylent Green is people. :geek:
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normen
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20 Feb 2018

bxbrkrz wrote:
20 Feb 2018
normen wrote:
19 Feb 2018
Exactly, 100% agree except on the conclusions. My conclusion is that my consciousness seems to know best what consciousness is so I'll consciously decide that it knows that all of these shenanigans won't really change anything, just like they never did. Think about how far we actually are from what our body still thinks we are - did it turn us into psychopaths and created dystopian empires? On small islands that get ever smaller - maybe :)

Can't wait for my glow in the dark cat, been calling that fucker for hours now :P
Your glow in the dark cat is already conspiring to take over the world. No time for you.

Another thing I forgot to point out: I don't see the proof that we, at this stage (of Evolution/Spirituality/Technology), should be considered "adults". Maybe there is a giant reset button every 3000 years or so, forcing us to start over and over again. So who knows how many times in the past Dystopian Worlds were built, then destroyed. Maybe there were a reason to write History using clay or stones in the past, invulnerable to massive solar storms that will erase everything we have stored digitally today.
Our present consciousness rejects massive remains from the past we see, but can't rebuild with "ancient" or today's technology. We assume for a fact humans before us were not that advanced, and we, right now are much smarter. The paradox is we also still teach the ancient philosophers as the greatest minds ever (with *good* reasons). We only have one tool, our consciousness, to understand and decide what to believe. We are stuck in a loop. It could be a natural loop. The only way to know is to get out of the loop.
But... by consciously and collectively starting the awareness of the loop we are all trapped in and wanting to get out of it, could be the mechanism that triggers the automatic giant reset button. :shock:

Nature created humans. Humans created GMOs. GMOs is Nature. Humans created Nature. Soylent Green is people. :geek:
Totally. The constructivism card always works and we could already be watched by or even be part of (or a bacteria in) the organism of something we couldn't even begin to understand :)

And yes, maybe is this collective consciousness we develop is even a form of cancer to that organism, who knows :twisted:

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EnochLight
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21 Feb 2018

bxbrkrz wrote:
20 Feb 2018
We assume for a fact humans before us were not that advanced, and we, right now are much smarter. The paradox is we also still teach the ancient philosophers as the greatest minds ever (with *good* reasons).
I can see how the discovery of things like the Baghdad Battery or the Antikythera mechanism might suggest this. Some people still look at the construction of the Great Pyramids as something humans couldn't do by themselves (which is just silly), but make no mistake: we have very detailed records of human history for the past 2500 years, and from an archaeological perspective - for several thousand years before that. We have never been more technologically advanced that we have been today. NOW.


I mean, unless you subscribe to the fiction of Erich Von Daniken, Zecharia Sitchin, or the series finale of the Battlestar Galactica reboot. In which case, carry on. :D
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