The Last Jedi

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EnochLight
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21 Dec 2017

madmacman wrote:
21 Dec 2017
I must confess I never really got the "twist" why after the rebel's victory and the end of the empire, they could rise and re-power within less of a generation (30 years) as told us in TFA.
Clearly you must have forgotten actual recent world history (see Germany, 1918, defeated; rise to power again just 15 years later)... Not that I'm comparing the Weimar Republic's transition to Nazi Germany as mirroring the Republic/Empire/First Order story line, but I thought it's common knowledge who George Lucas mirrored his story after. He even used Leni Riefenstahl propaganda-inspired film techniques in the original movies. But, I digress...

At its core, this has always been a story with a Manichaean worldview divided between heroes (a.k.a. the Resistance/Rebellion) and villains (the First Order/Empire).
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madmacman
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21 Dec 2017

EnochLight wrote:
21 Dec 2017
madmacman wrote:
21 Dec 2017
I must confess I never really got the "twist" why after the rebel's victory and the end of the empire, they could rise and re-power within less of a generation (30 years) as told us in TFA.
Clearly you must have forgotten actual recent world history (see Germany, 1918, defeated; rise to power again just 15 years later)... Not that I'm comparing the Weimar Republic's transition to Nazi Germany as mirroring the Republic/Empire/First Order story line, but I thought it's common knowledge who George Lucas mirrored his story after. He even used Leni Riefenstahl propaganda-inspired film techniques in the original movies. But, I digress...

At its core, this has always been a story with a Manichaean worldview divided between heroes (a.k.a. the Resistance/Rebellion) and villains (the First Order/Empire).
Hmm, maybe we can see these movies as a deeper lesson in philosophical questions along with teaching recent history. But after all: it's a tale. And it always has been promoted this way. Who really wants to listen to "Hansel and Gretel 2 - Return of the wicked witch"? ;) Everything is going to be fine in the end. (and yes - I'm sure this is the same outcome at the end of episode 9).

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JiggeryPokery
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21 Dec 2017

madmacman wrote:
21 Dec 2017
EnochLight wrote:
21 Dec 2017


Clearly you must have forgotten actual recent world history (see Germany, 1918, defeated; rise to power again just 15 years later)... Not that I'm comparing the Weimar Republic's transition to Nazi Germany as mirroring the Republic/Empire/First Order story line, but I thought it's common knowledge who George Lucas mirrored his story after. He even used Leni Riefenstahl propaganda-inspired film techniques in the original movies. But, I digress...

At its core, this has always been a story with a Manichaean worldview divided between heroes (a.k.a. the Resistance/Rebellion) and villains (the First Order/Empire).
Hmm, maybe we can see these movies as a deeper lesson in philosophical questions along with teaching recent history. But after all: it's a tale. And it always has been promoted this way. Who really wants to listen to "Hansel and Gretel 2 - Return of the wicked witch"? ;) Everything is going to be fine in the end. (and yes - I'm sure this is the same outcome at the end of episode 9).
JJ's back in charge. At the end Ep Ix will reveal a CGI recreation of a 10-year old Jake Lloyd waking up and the last 40 years have been just a dream he had after watching 633 Squadron one Sunday afternoon back in 1975.

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bxbrkrz
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02 Jan 2018

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Some people say it was the best tasting SW ever.
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33db
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02 Jan 2018

As long as there's a strict "no JarJar" rule I can suffer through anything.

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bxbrkrz
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05 Jan 2018

The Hero's Journey.

I feel (could be 100% wrong ) this model was killed when video games took over the block buster movies. If you watch SW8 and you think "Joseph Campbell" then yes the movie is bad. But if you watch the movie from a gamer's perspective, then the character arc is logical. Every struggle is a victory? Nah, not really. You need to master your skills and that could take years. Nah, not anymore. It's a video game. You chose your characters, dress them up, chose their weapons, skills... And up you go.
SW is now a video game without the interaction, like watching gamers on Twitch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_ ... sand_Faces
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EnochLight
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05 Jan 2018

bxbrkrz wrote:
05 Jan 2018
The Hero's Journey.

I feel (could be 100% wrong ) this model was killed when video games took over the block buster movies. If you watch SW8 and you think "Joseph Campbell" then yes the movie is bad. But if you watch the movie from a gamer's perspective, then the character arc is logical. Every struggle is a victory? Nah, not really. You need to master your skills and that could take years. Nah, not anymore. It's a video game. You chose your characters, dress them up, chose their weapons, skills... And up you go.
SW is now a video game without the interaction, like watching gamers on Twitch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_ ... sand_Faces
I don't know if I'd simplify it that much, to be honest. The Joseph Campbell/hero's journey is most certainly still present in SW7 & SW8 - this is evidenced in Rey's story arc (and even, though to a lesser degree, in Finn's story arc). As an avid gamer, I do see where you're coming from, though. But I wouldn't compare it to watching gamers on Twitch at all. ;)
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bxbrkrz
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05 Jan 2018

EnochLight wrote:
05 Jan 2018
bxbrkrz wrote:
05 Jan 2018
The Hero's Journey.

I feel (could be 100% wrong ) this model was killed when video games took over the block buster movies. If you watch SW8 and you think "Joseph Campbell" then yes the movie is bad. But if you watch the movie from a gamer's perspective, then the character arc is logical. Every struggle is a victory? Nah, not really. You need to master your skills and that could take years. Nah, not anymore. It's a video game. You chose your characters, dress them up, chose their weapons, skills... And up you go.
SW is now a video game without the interaction, like watching gamers on Twitch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_ ... sand_Faces
I don't know if I'd simplify it that much, to be honest. The Joseph Campbell/hero's journey is most certainly still present in SW7 & SW8 - this is evidenced in Rey's story arc (and even, though to a lesser degree, in Finn's story arc). As an avid gamer, I do see where you're coming from, though. But I wouldn't compare it to watching gamers on Twitch at all. ;)
I had to say it if I want to stay faithful to my story arc in this thread ;)
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EnochLight
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05 Jan 2018

bxbrkrz wrote:
05 Jan 2018
I had to say it if I want to stay faithful to my story arc in this thread ;)
I see. You fancy yourself a hero in this thread? Villains arguably get the cooler outfits, you know... :)


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miscend
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06 Jan 2018

I can’t believe just how many critics were giving this 9 out of ten review scores. It’s good but not that good.

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bxbrkrz
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06 Jan 2018

EnochLight wrote:
05 Jan 2018
bxbrkrz wrote:
05 Jan 2018
I had to say it if I want to stay faithful to my story arc in this thread ;)
I see. You fancy yourself a hero in this thread? Villains arguably get the cooler outfits, you know... :)

A hero, am I? To wait for Thread Episode II to find this out, you'll have hmmm.

SW7/8 are built to be the frameworks of video games (death by a thousand micro-transactions included). If the SW merchandising universe is slowing down (as it is, people aren't buying as much crap as before) games are the next logical cash cow for Disney, before their upcoming exclusive (SW/Marvel/Fox) streaming service. Under the new direction of Disney SW is a never ending story.
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Charismatic characters like Breaking Bad's Heisenberg, or Scarface's Tony Montana. Collecting them as posters, logos laser etched on a pc case, etc is "cool". Rogue One is a nice story but I doubt people (children) were crazy happy about collecting any of them. But opportunities to make it into a video game? Sure.

Also, a "Hero" is a social construct. He's/she's always someone else's villain... :-)
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EnochLight
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16 Jan 2018

1.2 billion USD worldwide, so far. I doubt it will go up much more, but still not too shabby!

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars8.htm


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Faastwalker
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13 Feb 2018

I came out of the movie theater pretty disappointed. I enjoyed The Force Awakens. Felt like Star Warts was back on track. I'm less enthusiastic about The Last Jedi. I like the characters but the new ones in this were somewhat pointless. The evolution of the central characters is chugging away nicely.

*** SPOILERS AHEAD ****

But the central plot of this film I thought was extremely weak + Leia's Mary Poppins in space moment, Po's prank phone call, weaponizing hyperspace, the pointless gambling planet excursion, Luke milking a sea cow. There were too many head shaking, head in hands moments in this film for me. I can't say I'm excited for the next installment.

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EnochLight
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13 Feb 2018

Faastwalker wrote:
13 Feb 2018

But the central plot of this film I thought was extremely weak + Leia's Mary Poppins in space moment, Po's prank phone call, weaponizing hyperspace, the pointless gambling planet excursion, Luke milking a sea cow. There were too many head shaking, head in hands moments in this film for me. I can't say I'm excited for the next installment.
Funny enough, these are all things that I felt made the film 100% awesome. Well, except for the gambling planet excursion. :D :)
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miscend
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13 Feb 2018

Anyone else waiting for the extra long extended cut?

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EnochLight
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13 Feb 2018

miscend wrote:
13 Feb 2018
Anyone else waiting for the extra long extended cut?
I'd be curious if they release one. There will likely be a bunch of deleted scenes on the Bluray/DVD release, but re-cutting the film? Maybe when Disney does a "20 Year Anniversary" release or something?
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miscend
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13 Feb 2018

EnochLight wrote:
13 Feb 2018
miscend wrote:
13 Feb 2018
Anyone else waiting for the extra long extended cut?
I'd be curious if they release one. There will likely be a bunch of deleted scenes on the Bluray/DVD release, but re-cutting the film? Maybe when Disney does a "20 Year Anniversary" release or something?
They haven’t anounced anything but because Ryan said he was unhappy they had to cut so much good footage, I assumed they would make a directors cut that had his real vision for the movie.

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miscend
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13 Feb 2018

In any case the Star Wars community are working on a fan edit once the Blu-ray comes out. It’s going to be shorter about 90 minutes and more streamlined by cutting a lot of the sub plots.

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JiggeryPokery
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13 Feb 2018

miscend wrote:
13 Feb 2018
In any case the Star Wars community are working on a fan edit once the Blu-ray comes out. It’s going to be shorter about 90 minutes and more streamlined by cutting a lot of the sub plots.
"The Star Wars community"? What? All of it?! From what I've read on the SW forums it's going to be shorter by simply cutting all the women out. :roll:

In any event, of course early cuts were longer, then scenes were removed. Everything I've read indicates the released cut is the director's cut.

The Leia scene for me remains the biggest issue: it was just badly conceived and executed. I don't have a problem at all with Leia using the Force to save herself, and done right it would have been a powerful moment. It was just terribly filmed. And I do wonder about how I'll feel about the the casino stuff on a rewatch: will I be so forgiving of the Canto sequence knowing it's a completely circular storyline?

The opening phone call sequence, I still think that was really funny. People often forget that there's a lot of humour in the OT ("You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" Ok, maybe that's not funny out of context. But it's really funny in... um... other contexts, ooh-er, missus :D ), but it's a fair cop that much of the humour in TLJ is far broader than has been in the series before and that's annoyed a lot of fans. Even though I laughed my arse off, that opening does feel more like a comedy sketch rather than an even wryly dramatic scene in a movie. It's almost like, and I can't help feeling this was a big inspiration for that opening, it's making canon Eddie Izzard's classic Death Star Canteen.

(Anyone who's not heard that routine should get thee to YouTube immediately... ).

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Faastwalker
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13 Feb 2018

miscend wrote:
13 Feb 2018
Anyone else waiting for the extra long extended cut?
No, but I am still waiting for The Force Awakens, George Lucas Special Edition;


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Lizard
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13 Feb 2018

EnochLight wrote:
16 Jan 2018
1.2 billion USD worldwide, so far. I doubt it will go up much more, but still not too shabby
Well... certainly not shabby. Many films dream to have that but not a film of this caliber do you think? It's all about the studios expectations for the film. Force awakens almost doubles these numbers at over 2 Billion worldwide. That kind of margin to me would be slightly upsetting if I were banking on TLJ's success.

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bxbrkrz
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14 Feb 2018

Faastwalker wrote:
13 Feb 2018
I came out of the movie theater pretty disappointed. I enjoyed The Force Awakens. Felt like Star Warts was back on track. I'm less enthusiastic about The Last Jedi. I like the characters but the new ones in this were somewhat pointless. The evolution of the central characters is chugging away nicely.

*** SPOILERS AHEAD ****

But the central plot of this film I thought was extremely weak + Leia's Mary Poppins in space moment, Po's prank phone call, weaponizing hyperspace, the pointless gambling planet excursion, Luke milking a sea cow. There were too many head shaking, head in hands moments in this film for me. I can't say I'm excited for the next installment.
"Star Warts"
Beautiful typo. Or... Was it?
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Faastwalker
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14 Feb 2018

bxbrkrz wrote:
14 Feb 2018
Faastwalker wrote:
13 Feb 2018
I came out of the movie theater pretty disappointed. I enjoyed The Force Awakens. Felt like Star Warts was back on track. I'm less enthusiastic about The Last Jedi. I like the characters but the new ones in this were somewhat pointless. The evolution of the central characters is chugging away nicely.

*** SPOILERS AHEAD ****

But the central plot of this film I thought was extremely weak + Leia's Mary Poppins in space moment, Po's prank phone call, weaponizing hyperspace, the pointless gambling planet excursion, Luke milking a sea cow. There were too many head shaking, head in hands moments in this film for me. I can't say I'm excited for the next installment.
"Star Warts"
Beautiful typo. Or... Was it?
That was a typo! lol. Totally missed that.

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bxbrkrz
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17 Feb 2018

Faastwalker wrote:
14 Feb 2018
bxbrkrz wrote:
14 Feb 2018

"Star Warts"
Beautiful typo. Or... Was it?
That was a typo! lol. Totally missed that.
:mrgreen:
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