Is there some inherent reason why the 2-5-1 progression is strongly associated with jazz?
Is because of some special characteristics of these chords?
Or is it just that ...for whatever reasons ... this progression and jazz have, through some sense of musical history/tradition, have come to be associated with each other?
2-5-1 progression and jazz ... why?
Guessing, for the same reason large chords are associated with jazz, for the same reason certain instruments are associated with jazz.rscheffel2 wrote: ↑05 Dec 2017Is there some inherent reason why the 2-5-1 progression is strongly associated with jazz?
Is because of some special characteristics of these chords?
Or is it just that ...for whatever reasons ... this progression and jazz have, through some sense of musical history/tradition, have come to be associated with each other?
Duke Ellington put is best: if it sounds good, it is good.
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In many genres of music there are certain chord structures or progressions that either define or exemplify the style. For example, blues wouldn't be blues without the familiar 1-4-1-5-4-1 progression. The sound of that progression is instantly recognizable and will forever be associated with the blues. Then there's the ubiquitous 1-5-6-4 progression that's permeated pop music for decades - check out compilation videos on YouTube illustrating just how staggeringly prevalent this progression is. Another familiar chord construct often heard in Western pop music is the major 4 to minor 4, which the Beatles, among others, used so frequently. And of course, heavy metal has its devil's 5th.rscheffel2 wrote: ↑05 Dec 2017Is there some inherent reason why the 2-5-1 progression is strongly associated with jazz?
Is because of some special characteristics of these chords?
Or is it just that ...for whatever reasons ... this progression and jazz have, through some sense of musical history/tradition, have come to be associated with each other?
In the end, it boils down to what makes a pleasing sound to musicians and listeners. For jazz players, who resolutely avoid any standard type of 1-4-5 progression, the 2-5-1 offers an appropriate resolution, just like the flatted 5th gives heavy metal it's ominous edge.
wreaking havoc with since 2.5
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+1 Nekujak
Every musical style has its own characteristics. Same reason why dissonance is so prevalent in my preference of techno.
Every musical style has its own characteristics. Same reason why dissonance is so prevalent in my preference of techno.
Actually it's WAY less common in metal than music theory students (and teachers) make it out to be I guess because it was called the "devils interval" before it just seems to fit so well in their mind. Then Black Sabbath used it a few times and the music theory stereotype was born (even though few categorize BS as actual Heavy Metal). Its kind of like the common misconception (even among music students) that Indian music uses 24 quarter steps.
2-5-1 is such an easy and handy way to go from different keys in same song, based on the cirkel of fifths. It works in all genres, but as much Jazz tend to often want to be as free as possible in its cross-key journeys, it is a lifeline to know where it might be going. As free as Jazz players want to be, they still are in need for some logic structures and mental rules, 2-5-1 is easy enough to let other aspects be more complicated. I am not a Jazz type per se. So when first staring at a paper of a Jazz-tune, it looks very confusing, but as soon as one start to find all the 2-5-1 progressions, although the many on the edge colored chords, it gets a lot clearer to see a red line of the movements. But why the heck it from the first start has became just so overly used in Jazz, how it came about historically, that is another thing that probably some more into the genre can answer.
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Comes from the melodic/solo concept too.
Bebop is based on improvising fast eigth note lines that hit 1-3-5-7 chord tones on strong beats, or the important tensions (b9/#9, natural 9, b13 or natural 13). The ii is just a sequitor for a V chord, but the magic is making an unaccompagnied ii-V-I melody sound as articulate and full as chords.
Basically Charlie Parker and John Coltrane gained mastery playing ii-V-I or altered ii-V-i sequences in every key, with deceptive cadences, figuring out how to milk diminished harmony over the sequence. Basically they developed a language for milking 12 notes in a musical manner out of any key. The tricky thing is knowing which notes not to play when you're swinging at 300 bpm. The ii V and I all have their particular target tones.
Bebop is based on improvising fast eigth note lines that hit 1-3-5-7 chord tones on strong beats, or the important tensions (b9/#9, natural 9, b13 or natural 13). The ii is just a sequitor for a V chord, but the magic is making an unaccompagnied ii-V-I melody sound as articulate and full as chords.
Basically Charlie Parker and John Coltrane gained mastery playing ii-V-I or altered ii-V-i sequences in every key, with deceptive cadences, figuring out how to milk diminished harmony over the sequence. Basically they developed a language for milking 12 notes in a musical manner out of any key. The tricky thing is knowing which notes not to play when you're swinging at 300 bpm. The ii V and I all have their particular target tones.
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Thanks for all the feedback ... it began to seem like a dumb question that I was posing ... but now I'm glad I asked.
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It's the root of modal music. Tonica, subdominant, dominant. But the subdominant is often played as minor relative in jazz, just for a slightly different "color". D-7, G7, C is the same as F6, G7, C. The function of the D-7 is that of a subdominant.
It's the oldest and strongest way to get back to the tonic. Happens in all western music. From old classical music 'till now.
It's the oldest and strongest way to get back to the tonic. Happens in all western music. From old classical music 'till now.
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Marco Raaphorst wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017It's the root of modal music. Tonica, subdominant, dominant. But the subdominant is often played as minor relative in jazz, just for a slightly different "color". D-7, G7, C is the same as F6, G7, C. The function of the D-7 is that of a subdominant.
Marco ... I think I am getting what you mean but could you please expand on this just a little ... THANKS
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The I, IV and V chords is the base of western music. The II chord is a substitute for the IV. They have the same effect, leading to the V. So anywhere you play a II you can also play a IV as alternative.rscheffel2 wrote: ↑13 Dec 2017Marco Raaphorst wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017It's the root of modal music. Tonica, subdominant, dominant. But the subdominant is often played as minor relative in jazz, just for a slightly different "color". D-7, G7, C is the same as F6, G7, C. The function of the D-7 is that of a subdominant.
Marco ... I think I am getting what you mean but could you please expand on this just a little ... THANKS
And vise versa (the ii is a substitute for the IV).Marco Raaphorst wrote:The I, IV and V chords is the base of western music. The II chord is a substitute for the IV. They have the same effect, leading to the V. So anywhere you play a II you can also play a IV as alternative.rscheffel2 wrote: ↑13 Dec 2017
Marco ... I think I am getting what you mean but could you please expand on this just a little ... THANKS
And to complete the thought, the V then leads to the I (tonic).
When improvising with friends we quickly discovered there was no need for verbal/visual cues as to where we were headed - the chords imply the direction (at least in the Western context).
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