Are you in control of your own thoughts, actions and decisions?

[plaamook]

This guy knows what’s going down.

No one is really allowed to know what's going down.
The illusion to believe it? That's allowed in the code.
The closer you get to the 'wall', the faster you fold back to the start of your journey, a journey 'inspired' by a question.
It's a loop.

I take it back.
Hes fucking bonkers!

[jam-s]

The closer you get to the 'wall', the faster you fold back to the start of your journey, a journey 'inspired' by a question.
It's a loop.

Or a spiral into madness.

[bxbrkrz]

No one is really allowed to know what's going down.
The illusion to believe it? That's allowed in the code.
The closer you get to the 'wall', the faster you fold back to the start of your journey, a journey 'inspired' by a question.
It's a loop.

I take it back.
Hes fucking bonkers!

Are you the one taking it back, or were you 'inspired' to do so?
"Bonkers" is the name of your own wall, before the folding

[plaamook]

I take it back.
Hes fucking bonkers!

Are you the one taking it back, or were you 'inspired' to do so?
"Bonkers" is the name of your own wall, before the folding

Hej, what do I know. I’m just another trajectory.

[bxbrkrz]

The closer you get to the 'wall', the faster you fold back to the start of your journey, a journey 'inspired' by a question.
It's a loop.

Or a spiral into madness.

If you can see the spiral, you are not part of it. Although you are part of another spiral, madness included, or not

[orthodox]

[selig]

So characters never have free will, right?
Not possible.

They can be said to have a will

They can also therefore be said to have a ‘way’.
Proof:
IF (there is a will), THEN (there is a way).

[bxbrkrz]

Maybe a form of nihilism is the unescapable conclusion of for all sentient beings?

[orthodox]

They can be said to have a will

They can also therefore be said to have a ‘way’.
Proof:
IF (there is a will), THEN (there is a way).

They can be said to have anything, and anything can be "proven" about them. I mean, it is useless to look for answers in a model that inherently lacks the key properties being questioned.

[orthodox]

Maybe a form of nihilism is the unescapable conclusion of [ free will] for all sentient beings?

Maybe only for those who spend their allegedly free will on digging too deep?

[bxbrkrz]

Maybe a form of nihilism is the unescapable conclusion of [ free will] for all sentient beings?

Maybe only for those who spend their allegedly free will on digging too deep?

One can dig deeper and faster with a partner and its shovel. It takes two to deep tango.

[avasopht]

Maybe only for those who spend their allegedly free will on digging too deep?

What else would a free will do but question its own existence if given enough freedom to think freely?

[jam-s]

Maybe a form of nihilism is the unescapable conclusion of [ free will] for all sentient beings?

Maybe only for those who spend their allegedly free will on digging too deep?

Like those little fellows?

Now did a part of free will let me evaluate the option to repost this epic dwarfen hymn as a slightly OT tangent following the rather fun atmosphere here? We might never know...

[plaamook]

. It takes two to deep tango.

Deep tango.
Is that anything like the horizontal mambo?

[orthodox]

Maybe only for those who spend their allegedly free will on digging too deep?

What else would a free will do but question its own existence if given enough freedom to think freely?

Fixated on itself, giving up everything including head, maybe free will has nothing else to do. Life brings freedom, death takes it away, but free will is free to choose either of them.

[bxbrkrz]

. It takes two to deep tango.

Deep tango.
Is that anything like the horizontal mambo?

Deeper.

[plaamook]

That’s it.
I’m hanging up my mambo...eh...shoes...and going full on deep tango.
Thanks for the tip.

Another shining example of how we don’t make decisions!

[motuscott]

Arthur Schopenhauer would like a piece of this conversation

[bxbrkrz]

That’s it.
I’m hanging up my mambo...eh...shoes...and going full on deep tango.
Thanks for the tip.

Another shining example of how we don’t make decisions!

[plaamook]

Thing is Schopenhauer basically just reinterpreted eastern philosophy.
I’m not super familiar w him...I’ve read a bit...but that’s the way it seemed to me.
I don’t know if he was a hard materialist. It would be strange if he was as eastern thought is sort of idealist.
But the interesting thing is that this free will v determinism argument basically undermines materialism in the way we normally view it. Idealism as well.
If you take the hard individual conscious subject out of the mix you’re left with a great matrix of interconectivity that looks an awful lot like idealism. Because at that point the concept of material itself, as something somehow separate from mind that ACTUALLY EXISTS, partially or totally loses its philosophical meaning.
If everything including consciousness is made of the same basic stuff...energy basically...then you’re left with an impossibility to define that single substance against anything else. So materialism defeats itself in a way.
Also interesting is that eastern thought isn’t in fact idealist. It generally posits that ultimate reality is simply beyond definition...also similar to the end result of both idealism and materialism.
Fascinating stuff.

[littlejam]

hello,

my stepdad said he did not want to understand the reality of god
because god the omnipotent, omnipresent, there's a 3rd o somewhere
would be too small

to just believe and have have faith is a miracle
and that what gods are made of
kind of like mayo

cheers,

j

[plaamook]

hello,

my stepdad said he did not want to understand the reality of god
because god the omnipotent, omnipresent, there's a 3rd o somewhere
would be too small

to just believe and have have faith is a miracle
and that what gods are made of
kind of like mayo

cheers,

j

If I could believe in a god I would.
It would be better than Mayo.

[orthodox]

If everything including consciousness is made of the same basic stuff...energy basically...then you’re left with an impossibility to define that single substance against anything else. So materialism defeats itself in a way.

Why? Materialism stands. Some substance is organized, some is not.

[littlejam]

hello,

@plaamook
miracle whip / velveeta / nduja / canned tuna in oil

native american gods are coolcool and there are many which is also coolcool

the tao of pooh and the te of piglet are also great reads
(don't know if i posted those books before (i think i did somewhere))

cheers,

j

[plaamook]

If everything including consciousness is made of the same basic stuff...energy basically...then you’re left with an impossibility to define that single substance against anything else. So materialism defeats itself in a way.

Why? Materialism stands. Some substance is organized, some is not.

I’m talking about it on a deeper level. Trying to.
If the entire universe was blue (for example) the concept if blue wouldn’t exist.
It’s similar here.
If there’s free will as we’ve been discussing it then material exists in opposition to some ephemeral mind thing that makes decisions outside the matrix of causality to whatever degree that it does this. If mind stuff doesn’t make such decisions as in a strictly material universe based on causality than thats because the mind stuff isn’t different or separate from the material on some deep level. But at that level you arrive at a kind of unified field where there’s no real differentiation of things because it’s all the same blue (for example) stuff. And at that point the concept of material breaks down.