Mattias is starting to talk about the PUF closing

[phasys]

What I see is Mattias constantly repeating the same shit over and over, but nowhere is he touching the fact that thousands upon thousands of threads with incredibly useful posts will be DESTROYED COMPLETELY.

Yeah, new users want youtube videos. But for users who want more in depth knowledge, the PUF is a goldmine. Now they're destroying that goldmine, with which they actually say: "FUCK the users who want more knowledge, from now on, we only cater to the noobs". Which they already did on the forum, for a large part. Remember the little diagram I made? It's more actual now than ever.

[Gaja]

... Not for corporations whose only interest are profits.

I would like to state that I don't think porps are in it only for the money. There are much more profitable areas, so why choose Developing DAW software to get super rich? Because there's also a passion behind that decision. Not a passion for money, which is found elsewhere in larger quantities, but a passion for music making.

[selig]

What I see is Mattias constantly repeating the same shit over and over, but nowhere is he touching the fact that thousands upon thousands of threads with incredibly useful posts will be DESTROYED COMPLETELY.

Yeah, new users want youtube videos. But for users who want more in depth knowledge, the PUF is a goldmine. Now they're destroying that goldmine, with which they actually say: "FUCK the users who want more knowledge, from now on, we only cater to the noobs". Which they already did on the forum, for a large part. Remember the little diagram I made? It's more actual now than ever.

Not to contradict the overall point you're making, but only to add one small detail…

To be fair, and because no one would have any way of knowing it otherwise (and I hope it's OK to say it here), I know the Props are collecting some of the more informative posts to add to their blog, but I only know this because they asked me if it was OK to re-post my threads (of course I said yes). Can't say whether they are saving any others, only those folks would know. But at the very least I can say there is awareness that there were some posts they consider worth saving - it can still be argued whether they are saving any posts of real value or not!

All is not completely lost, IMO of course.

[Heater]

And it's been said again:

Reason 8 is the most successful upgrade, based on total units and revenue.

I'm certain that some will chime in here and say it's marketing BS and lies, but seriously - can we put this to rest now?  I don't know how many times an official Propellerhead has to make an official statement for it to be accurate or representative of the subject at hand.

Yes.  I think we can put that one to bed now.  They keep repeating it so we have to take them at face value.

[hydlide]

I just don't believe everything I'm told.

Same here, all I am reading is a marketing thing. It is like "McDonalds, I am loving it" all over. It wouldn't make much sense for a company to say "this upgrade isn't as good selling as we were hoping for".
Now that would probably be honest, but from a marketing point of view... hmmm. I don't think it will work out that well.

The same goes with the sentence "Reason 8 is the best upgrade well ehm... since Reason".

After installing and buying the upgrade I felt disappointed just like watching the Phantom Menace. And I looked like this:
 

I removed the installation, got back to Reason 7 and I personally couldn't care less about the repeating message about Discover.

Sure, I will admit: the change sounds promising when i could use a workflow like browsing soundcloud or something like it and stick this in my rack and mangle it to bits. I like a few Rack extensions and all that.

There might be a long term vision (its all speculation I am doing), where I like to follow along where it takes me. I am optimistic on that end. But that will be a long and patient wait. We'll see what happens

[hydlide]

@hydlide Apropos source, i remember you had a lot of useful content, furthermore "real" tutorials (with real i mean for indept...) instead advertising gags the Props keep doing since Record. I'm not up to date with your new website, however, would it be possible to repost them by time IF any of them are missing ?

Nicola, I have started a thread on reasontalk here: http://www.reasontalk.com/post/100-free ... 55-7254482
Regarding the old stuff I posted on youtube, I deleted them. I am not sure if they will return in the exact same format since a lot was related to Reason 4. Reason 6 and above have changed a lot of things regarding to music making and such in my opinion.

Call it a Reboot if you will

[Dabbler]

Nice thread. I am happy.

I will be trolling this board much the same way I trolled the PUF.

Thanks to the owners for setting this up.

[TheFatControlleR]

I'm content in never knowing what was behind all this - they're still not saying why and I have to ask myself "does it matter"? My answer is "no".

^This^.

But then again, I abandoned the PUF long before it abandoned me.

[pushedbutton]

I'm content in never knowing what was behind all this - they're still not saying why and I have to ask myself "does it matter"? My answer is "no".

^This^.

But then again, I abandoned the PUF long before it abandoned me.

PUF closed because it got toxic. Some valid points were made about Reason 8 but on the other hand a lot of people just decided they would vent there and it created a bad atmosphere. I imagine if you took a snapshot of the forums towards the end of last year and showed it to a potential new customer they'd run a mile from anything to do with propellerhead.
The PUF was all but dead after the heartbleed reboot. Hopefully Matti will do his best to regenerate a sense of community amongst the faithful users and the Props have a strategy to help him do this.
I'd like to see something along the lines of Music Making Month again, I really enjoyed that and I learned a lot.

[Flandersh]

I mean, how can you have any meaningful and logical discussions if you are overly suspicious like that? You can't.

There is a difference between being skeptical and suspicious. A similar case is described by George Graham (2010, p. 338): "The remarks of a philosopher may seem as deluded as those of a patient in a schizophrenia ward. Each has a different voice with which to speak, however. The philosopher who denies that they exist or that there is an external world lives in the real world and fits in. The deluded patient, by comparison and contrast, cannot effectively fit in the actual world. Or they do so only with much luck and many difficulties".

The skeptical stance is a very possible and valueable onset for philosophical and scientifical research, wherease being suspicious is rather not.

Bibliography:
Graham, G. (2010). Are the Deluded Believers?: Are Philosophers Among the Deluded? Philosophy, Psychiatry, & Psychology 17(4), 337-339.

[CharlyCharlzz]

There is many (why) but they will never say it because they respect 99% of there users !

if you had a company like props at some point you would have to choose to rather be underground and cool or be like a company of these days & times .

it's not the small startup it used to be in the late 90's ,
Now rather they look serious and take there chances in the Big Dog world or they clim back down and stay a small start up but being in between is the worst thing because it's average .

so like I sayed if your are the boss of a company like Props or a investor I dont think you want all these trolls on you own company webpage .... IMHO !

[platzangst]

The skeptical stance is a very possible and valueable onset for philosophical and scientifical research, wherease being suspicious is rather not.

But which was the PUF?

One of the things that has been baffling me about a lot of this is: what's the end game? What do Reason users stand to gain by constantly second-guessing the Props' decisions and statements?

Suppose, for the sake of argument, that Matthias was just completely dishonest, and that R8 has tanked miserably in sales, and that every last conspiracy theory about the future of PH was true. Okay: then what? What does one gain by supposedly "exposing" these things? Is Ernst going to walk out on stage, saying "Ooops, well, you caught us, so that means free Reason for everybody!"? Is PH going to hand over control to the fans, or change a single policy, based on whether any of these things that people have been insinuating are true or not?

I highly doubt it. But it seems to me that some folks did somehow expect their venting to seriously change things, if they could have just convinced other people that they'd caught Propellerhead in some kind of "gotcha".

[Flandersh]

The skeptical stance is a very possible and valueable onset for philosophical and scientifical research, wherease being suspicious is rather not.

But which was the PUF?

I think both stance may possibly have been presented at PUF.

One of the things that has been baffling me about a lot of this is: what's the end game? What do Reason users stand to gain by constantly second-guessing the Props' decisions and statements?

Suppose, for the sake of argument, that Matthias was just completely dishonest, and that R8 has tanked miserably in sales, and that every last conspiracy theory about the future of PH was true. Okay: then what? What does one gain by supposedly "exposing" these things? Is Ernst going to walk out on stage, saying "Ooops, well, you caught us, so that means free Reason for everybody!"? Is PH going to hand over control to the fans, or change a single policy, based on whether any of these things that people have been insinuating are true or not?

I highly doubt it. But it seems to me that some folks did somehow expect their venting to seriously change things, if they could have just convinced other people that they'd caught Propellerhead in some kind of "gotcha".

I can only answer for myself. As a social scientist these kind of games and the questions attached to it is very normal to ask. The social science is all about the study of the relationships between human and society in one way or another, from the study of the relationship between human and his education to a study of the relationship between a company and its consumers. Further, as social scientists it is not common to see it from a marketing perspective alone, but put it in a broader social context for analysis, and thought this social context for rhetorical reasons is not always revealed completely, it is still a part of the foundation of the question and the answer. A social scientist, as any other scientists, have no expectation about a given change based upon their questioning and answers. The Enlightenment was never about expectation. But they are in for providing advice, enlightening, so that society and its parts can make reasonable choices. 

To which extent the Enlightenment have convinced someone is a question in itself and maybe even not so relevant in toto. It may rather be that a journey with the foundation in a scientific predication is the most interesting part, and in a trial to situate Propellerhead in this, some answers may be revealed that can point in different, but expected, directions. The choice Propellerhead has taken seems to be, in such a light, according to the current western time and space. It is nothing strange over the decisions. But the question of the consequences of the decisions is another, and there is more than one possible answer to it.

So it is a game of chance, both for the company and the reasonable consumers. In sum may it be as a question on the predications in David Riesman's "The Lonely Crowd".

[Noplan]

What I see is Mattias constantly repeating the same shit over and over

This is the job he gets paid for with your money. 

[MarkTarlton]

I studied communications and broadcast engineering in college and went on to work for Google as a freelancer for over 5 years! One of the main jobs i did was media training and how a company is supposed to address concerns and problems. I wasn't the teacher but I listened to qualified experts who get paid loads of money to teach companies how to communicate to an audience regardless of if it's fanboys, or a team of hate mongers. The number one way to address a problem and this goes for having an argument with your best friend or spouse...is to do what is called "active listening" and that inclues techniques that shows the parties involved that they are being listened to. The first process would be this..say I ask a question like, "why are you closing the google forums?" a google representative would listen to the entire question before formulating a response and than once they begin the answer you playback most of the important part of the question in your own words explicitly answering in as much detail as you are allowed, which you are trained to do, you can't go leaking info that is not supposed to be leaked, and you can't be a politician either and spin the question into what your agenda is. It's a very fundamental approach of how to show your audience respect and that you are listening...sometimes you have to be blunt and say.."I am not allowed to answer that question because it's confidential information" but you can't get away with that response to every question or there will be suspicion from the audience why everything is so private. I also was behind the scenes at Facebook...I was extremely lucky in the early 2000's to get these gigs and it taught me a lot!

Propellerheads needs to hire a communications expert just like every major comapny has folks that deal with the press and other factes of communicating mission statements and giving enough info to put out the roar of the people when it starts to happen. This is a skill that would benefit them...you have to tell the truth and be transparent, but I also understand there will be times you have to keep info private.

[MarkTarlton]

How to be a good liar!

Cool stuff!

How much are you making per month btw?

reread my post...I said tell the truth!

I make very little money, does that make you feel better

[MarkTarlton]

How to be a good liar!

Cool stuff!

How much are you making per month btw?

reread my post...I said tell the truth!

I make very little money, does that make you feel better

I read it alright & made my conclusion!

You're right there & it has nothing to do with you, totally valid points!

No, it's not, mate, I thought you make at least 5-10k per month!

I am only a musician and audio engineer. I no longer do corporate work cuz I got burnt out...now I am doing what I love which is being creative. I barely make enough money to survive. It's below poverty level but I am much happier. I haven't been to a dentist or doctor in years and have a bad back from all the work and heavy lifting and can't afford to take care of myself, BUT I still am a slave to the art!

peace!

[jappe]

reread my post...I said tell the truth!

I make very little money, does that make you feel better

I read it alright & made my conclusion!

You're right there & it has nothing to do with you, totally valid points!

No, it's not, mate, I thought you make at least 5-10k per month!

I am only a musician and audio engineer. I no longer do corporate work cuz I got burnt out...now I am doing what I love which is being creative. I barely make enough money to survive. It's below poverty level but I am much happier. I haven't been to a dentist or doctor in years and have a bad back from all the work and heavy lifting and can't afford to take care of myself, BUT I still am a slave to the art!

peace!

Sure you did burnt, I'd too, coz

corporate work is for very inverted & perverted people,

so you're not one of them as I can conclude from your openness & it's great!

Well it's cool that you feel happier, I wish you to win a lot of money in a lottery! I'd love too!

If humanity was not inhumane, it would use human progress in all areas to eliminate poverty and aid the wellness of mankind.
It now instead diverts people from those goals.
That works because people accept to be slaves.