ReasonTalk.com

Gorgon wrote: ↑

07 Feb 2018

splangie wrote: ↑

11 Jan 2018

At least it is interesting. But none of this is new except nuclear. The world has always been full of SAMFs. There have always been huge numbers of people in misery and suffering and despair, plus any other terrible thing you can think of. And no matter how bad anyone has it, millions have and will have it even worse, forever. It is now and ever shall be.... blah blah blah blah. Amen, Amen.

The big difference being that we're talking about billions this time, who reproduce even more (thanks largely to religion) billions of people. The planet simply can't handle it. This will not end well.

Billions, millions, trillions or 7. Does it matter? Or does it only matter relatively? Is that really a difference of any significance? Does one in a billion, matter more than one in a million? Why should we care? Nothing is new, not even us; not my song, not your song, not their misery, not my misery. Suffering has gone on for the last 14 billion years, at least, in this universe. One, one hundred, one thousand, one hundred thousand, even one bloody million… one universe, one trillion universes. It is still one and that single one doesn't matter anymore or any less then next single one, one million, one billion or one trillion. I think we are like maggots on a rotting corpses and we try give ourselves much more significance than we deserve.

It might not end well for some, but it might turn out just fine for others. Maybe after the "real", "big", "great", "last", "war", when the earth is in smolders and before everything gets going again, a scrap dealer from another planet or galaxy will drive by, detect some polonium and make enough off the resale to buy that new power supply for his pleasure yacht. It always works out in the end. Heck, the end is the only thing we have to count on.

splangie wrote: ↑

07 Feb 2018

Billions, millions, trillions or 7. Does it matter? Or does it only matter relatively? Is that really a difference of any significance? Does one in a billion, matter more than one in a million? Why should we care? Nothing is new, not even us; not my song, not your song, not their misery, not my misery. Suffering has gone on for the last 14 billion years, at least, in this universe. One, one hundred, one thousand, one hundred thousand, even one bloody million… one universe, one trillion universes. It is still one and that single one doesn't matter anymore or any less then next single one, one million, one billion or one trillion. I think we are like maggots on a rotting corpses and we try give ourselves much more significance than we deserve.

It might not end well for some, but it might turn out just fine for others. Maybe after the "real", "big", "great", "last", "war", when the earth is in smolders and before everything gets going again, a scrap dealer from another planet or galaxy will drive by, detect some polonium and make enough off the resale to buy that new power supply for his pleasure yacht. It always works out in the end. Heck, the end is the only thing we have to count on.

And yet, despite the revisionist reality that many would have us believe, less people are dying right now from armed conflict, and it has been this trend for the past 72 years. Research institutes in Oslo and Uppsala compiled datasets of global battle deaths since 1946, and their plots showed an unmistakable downward trend. The per-capita death rate fell more than tenfold between the peak of the second world war and the Korean war, and then plunged an additional hundredfold by the mid-2000s. Even the recent uptick from the wars in Iraq and Syria has not brought the world anywhere near the death rates of the preceding decades. Other datasets show steep declines in genocides and other mass killings.

I know it's fashionable to think humans are a lost cause, but we just put a mannequin dressed in a space suite into orbit, while seated in a Tesla-S roadster. I officially have great hope in my species.

EnochLight wrote: ↑

07 Feb 2018

splangie wrote: ↑

07 Feb 2018

Billions, millions, trillions or 7. Does it matter? Or does it only matter relatively? Is that really a difference of any significance? Does one in a billion, matter more than one in a million? Why should we care? Nothing is new, not even us; not my song, not your song, not their misery, not my misery. Suffering has gone on for the last 14 billion years, at least, in this universe. One, one hundred, one thousand, one hundred thousand, even one bloody million… one universe, one trillion universes. It is still one and that single one doesn't matter anymore or any less then next single one, one million, one billion or one trillion. I think we are like maggots on a rotting corpses and we try give ourselves much more significance than we deserve.

It might not end well for some, but it might turn out just fine for others. Maybe after the "real", "big", "great", "last", "war", when the earth is in smolders and before everything gets going again, a scrap dealer from another planet or galaxy will drive by, detect some polonium and make enough off the resale to buy that new power supply for his pleasure yacht. It always works out in the end. Heck, the end is the only thing we have to count on.

And yet, despite the revisionist reality that many would have us believe, less people are dying right now from armed conflict, and it has been this trend for the past 72 years. Research institutes in Oslo and Uppsala compiled datasets of global battle deaths since 1946, and their plots showed an unmistakable downward trend. The per-capita death rate fell more than tenfold between the peak of the second world war and the Korean war, and then plunged an additional hundredfold by the mid-2000s. Even the recent uptick from the wars in Iraq and Syria has not brought the world anywhere near the death rates of the preceding decades. Other datasets show steep declines in genocides and other mass killings.

I know it's fashionable to think humans are a lost cause, but we just put a mannequin dressed in a space suite into orbit, while seated in a Tesla-S roadster. I officially have great hope in my species.

Again, it is all relative. I think using a tiny 75 year slice of the loop to compare with the big loop of at least 14 billion is irrelative. We should use the earth's life to compare to another similar planet of the same age, but every species that can, probably tends over value their own data and self-importance. We know, we see, have seen and will see very little but it is hard to convince some people that is a fact. You have great hope but so did all the rest of them. They all started the same and ended up the same, just like we will. Star dust to worm shit and then back to star dust. If this universe has been here for 14 billion or so, are we naive enough to think it was the first, last and the only? And that humans are the only thing anything has to count on? That would be a real let down. Sounds like something Asimov would write. I am not saying Asimov’s stuff was bad, once you remember his audience.

Fashionable. Is that what all your friends say? Great hopes for what? An end to suffering? Free energy? Free college. Free freeloading. Free dope? Free booze. Free Freedom? Free sex? Freedom from religion?

As it was in the beginning, it is now and every shall be. World without end? Bullshit, amen.

splangie wrote: ↑

07 Feb 2018

Again, it is all relative. I think using a tiny 75 year slice of the loop to compare with the big loop of at least 14 billion is irrelative. We should use the earth's life to compare to another similar planet of the same age, but every species that can, probably tends over value their own data and self-importance. We know, we see, have seen and will see very little but it is hard to convince some people that is a fact. You have great hope but so did all the rest of them. They all started the same and ended up the same, just like we will. Star dust to worm shit and then back to star dust. If this universe has been here for 14 billion or so, are we naive enough to think it was the first, last and the only? And that humans are the only thing anything has to count on? That would be a real let down. Sounds like something Asimov would write. I am not saying Asimov’s stuff was bad, once you remember his audience.

Fashionable. Is that what all your friends say? Great hopes for what? An end to suffering? Free energy? Free college. Free freeloading. Free dope? Free booze. Free Freedom? Free sex? Freedom from religion?

As it was in the beginning, it is now and every shall be. World without end? Bullshit, amen.

Sorry - doesn't matter, because:

I liked dvd... 's post. As for the future. Expecting to continue trends like EnochLight highlights is optimistic imo. Technology and medicine can only work in certain environments.

The upside down pyramid will topple over and crush us eventually.

EnochLight wrote: ↑

07 Feb 2018

splangie wrote: ↑

07 Feb 2018

Again, it is all relative. I think using a tiny 75 year slice of the loop to compare with the big loop of at least 14 billion is irrelative. We should use the earth's life to compare to another similar planet of the same age, but every species that can, probably tends over value their own data and self-importance. We know, we see, have seen and will see very little but it is hard to convince some people that is a fact. You have great hope but so did all the rest of them. They all started the same and ended up the same, just like we will. Star dust to worm shit and then back to star dust. If this universe has been here for 14 billion or so, are we naive enough to think it was the first, last and the only? And that humans are the only thing anything has to count on? That would be a real let down. Sounds like something Asimov would write. I am not saying Asimov’s stuff was bad, once you remember his audience.

Fashionable. Is that what all your friends say? Great hopes for what? An end to suffering? Free energy? Free college. Free freeloading. Free dope? Free booze. Free Freedom? Free sex? Freedom from religion?

As it was in the beginning, it is now and every shall be. World without end? Bullshit, amen.

Sorry - doesn't matter, because:



SpaceX_Starman_2-7-2018.jpg

It's chance of becoming stardust again before us just went up. Don't misunderstand me, I love Musk. I would have his baby. But on top of that being almost impossible, he is butt ugly.

splangie wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2018

It's chance of becoming stardust again before us just went up. Don't misunderstand me, I love Musk. I would have his baby. But on top of that being almost impossible, he is butt ugly.

Still, doesn't matter because:

An 18 year old me was willing to forgive humanity its crimes, believing that we are just animals and acting upon animal instinct.

A 50 year old me believes, that whilst we are animals, we are also humans and that we should be striving to be better than animals.

If we can't, then it's all over for us. If we can, then the stars await.

It's not looking too good.

splangie wrote: ↑

07 Feb 2018

Star dust to worm shit and then back to star dust.

But the worm shit is the most amazing thing in the universe we know of. If only one worm had lived and shat that would be SO big already. That worm made history, made an imprint on the universe, created something the biggest supernovae and black hole collisions couldn't do. I think our perception of time is what makes us NOT see how big that really is.

I sometimes read my old forum posts that I wrote decades ago. I have already quoted myself and contradicted myself. It's really interesting how you change over time and that's a good thing. This could be an indication that you were interested in learning something that has led you to other conclusions. But that changed my attitude towards me. My current opinion is currently valid for me, but I know that it could change. I take everything a little easier.

Noplan wrote: ↑

11 Feb 2018

I sometimes read my old forum posts that I wrote decades ago. I have already quoted myself and contradicted myself. It's really interesting how you change over time and that's a good thing. This could be an indication that you were interested in learning something that has led you to other conclusions. But that changed my attitude towards me. My current opinion is currently valid for me, but I know that it could change. I take everything a little easier.

Same. I’ll sometimes visit forum posts I made 18 years ago. Then I was newly married and just ended my 20’s. Being a parent for some time now and approaching my late 40’s, you change a lot. I love both versions, and I hate both versions, but I’ll always embrace change and learning new things. That rocks.

I don't know how many people are answering this seriously, but I've absolutely stuck to my early ideals. Anarchist. Iconoclast. Musician. Poet. As a result I'm now 38, no job, no family, struggling with addiction and mental health shit. It's hard. Ideals don't age well, but for some of us they're pretty much all we have.

JNeffLind wrote: ↑

11 Feb 2018

I don't know how many people are answering this seriously, but I've absolutely stuck to my early ideals. Anarchist. Iconoclast. Musician. Poet. As a result I'm now 38, no job, no family, struggling with addiction and mental health shit. It's hard. Ideals don't age well, but for some of us they're pretty much all we have.

You seriously think working in a bank would have kept you sane, able to deal with substances and given you a family?

normen wrote: ↑

11 Feb 2018

You seriously think working in a bank would have kept you sane, able to deal with substances and given you a family?

No. I'd be dead if I worked in a bank. Still doesn't make it easy. Being a "loser" in the eyes of society can wear on a guy. Still, as Bukowski said: "I've never met another man I'd rather be."

JNeffLind wrote: ↑

11 Feb 2018

No. I'd be dead if I worked in a bank. Still doesn't make it easy. Being a "loser" in the eyes of society can wear on a guy. Still, as Bukowski said: "I've never met another man I'd rather be."

People don't label you for the actual status difference but only for their own personal issues. A banker might feel threatened by your freedom regarding your time schedule so he puts an emphasis on your wage difference. He KNOWS that the world doesn't work without artists (or consisting only of banker types) though.

So yeah, if a person labels somebody else as a "loser" they do that to elevate themselves personally - don't let that wear you out. A normal person that has no issues with themselves will appreciate that another person is kind and open minded - not just see that he's a bum or punk guitarist

normen wrote: ↑

11 Feb 2018

People don't label you for the actual status difference but only for their own personal issues. A banker might feel threatened by your freedom regarding your time schedule so he puts an emphasis on your wage difference. He KNOWS that the world doesn't work without artists (or consisting only of banker types) though.

So yeah, if a person labels somebody else as a "loser" they do that to elevate themselves personally - don't let that wear you out. A normal person that has no issues with themselves will appreciate that another person is kind and open minded - not just see that he's a bum or punk guitarist

I think you're right. Still makes things difficult. E.g. just broke up with girlfriend because she wanted me in a career, not doing music. I seriously loved that girl. Oh well. Thanks for the support. Glad there are some people out there who would take me as I am.

Just because society moves in a certain direction, does not mean that I must move in that direction and have no choice in the matter.
We all get our jollies one way or another. We all have our own (little) idiosyncrasies, what distinguishes you from all collectives and makes you unique.

There is a connection between the two; divorce rate and cataract surgeries?
Millions cataract surgeries are performed worldwide every year, with the vast majority of these procedures produce excellent visual outcomes.

normen wrote: ↑

11 Feb 2018

splangie wrote: ↑

07 Feb 2018

Star dust to worm shit and then back to star dust.

But the worm shit is the most amazing thing in the universe we know of. If only one worm had lived and shat that would be SO big already. That worm made history, made an imprint on the universe, created something the biggest supernovae and black hole collisions couldn't do. I think our perception of time is what makes us NOT see how big that really is.

It has been said that worm shit by any other name is still the same. I think it is disappointing that at this point all we know about is our own worm shit. The launch was neat and all, but nothing really new besides being able to reuse some of the launch vehicle and it getting closer to being big enough to actually get something beyond the “fence in our backyard” to do something that hasn’t yet been done. We have Voyager I and II, the Mars rover, had the Shuttle and landed some folks on the moon. And that is really cool and all and putting folks on Mars would be neat I guess, but it won't find anything the particle accelerators have already failed to find, it won't help with nuclear proliferation, prevent the next pandemic or any of the other problems we have with water, energy and religion. The biggest problem with most folk’s perception of time in my opinion is thinking we have enough. I think the fuse is very short and things are a lot more fragile than most of us believe. I might be preaching to the choir, though this choir does seem pretty diverse and I try to be careful sort of, but I don’t think the general direction we are moving is the right one. For instance, and I’m not talking about this thread or forum, but just when I think it’s getting better someone drags folk lore and mythology or what they refer to as their moral fabric based on those things for instance, back onto the table, shoves it right in my face and all of the sudden it feels like sitting with a bunch of philistines. I have become more disappointed and alienated from my peers lately than ever before. And it is all because of folk lore and mythology. I could be way off, but I don’t think anything Elon can wrangle up will help, unless he spends all his profits on education. And I think everyone should wear an effin body cam in public too and don't trust whitey. I can say that, right?

splangie wrote: ↑

12 Feb 2018

It has been said that worm shit by any other name is still the same. I think it is disappointing that at this point all we know about is our own worm shit. The launch was neat and all, but nothing really new besides being able to reuse some of the launch vehicle and it getting closer to being big enough to actually get something beyond the “fence in our backyard” to do something that hasn’t yet been done. We have Voyager I and II, the Mars rover, had the Shuttle and landed some folks on the moon. And that is really cool and all and putting folks on Mars would be neat I guess, but it won't find anything the particle accelerators have already failed to find, it won't help with nuclear proliferation, prevent the next pandemic or any of the other problems we have with water, energy and religion. The biggest problem with most folk’s perception of time in my opinion is thinking we have enough. I think the fuse is very short and things are a lot more fragile than most of us believe. I might be preaching to the choir, though this choir does seem pretty diverse and I try to be careful sort of, but I don’t think the general direction we are moving is the right one. For instance, and I’m not talking about this thread or forum, but just when I think it’s getting better someone drags folk lore and mythology or what they refer to as their moral fabric based on those things for instance, back onto the table, shoves it right in my face and all of the sudden it feels like sitting with a bunch of philistines. I have become more disappointed and alienated from my peers lately than ever before. And it is all because of folk lore and mythology. I could be way off, but I don’t think anything Elon can wrangle up will help, unless he spends all his profits on education. And I think everyone should wear an effin body cam in public too and don't trust whitey. I can say that, right?

You can say anything you want, people died to make sure of that

I'd say things like the moon landing and Elons stunt bring people MUCH closer together than understanding more about the universe.