Discussion: Music Studio Architecture (Building from the ground)

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RobC
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Post 10 Dec 2019

The ideal music studio is obviously one that is exactly built for your needs. And I mean the building itself, too.

What matters most are: the area, building materials, and architecture.

I would pass on cities, even villages due to noise; but also hills, because of too much isolation. Rural area seems to be a more ideal trade-off ~ especially near a city, and your own property where you do what you want.

When it comes to material, there are a couple of options, like concrete, bricks, wood, stone, etc. Something tells me, that wood might be the best for sound, but I have no clue there.

Architecture is the biggest question. Personally, I'd look for something that's ideal for working with K-14 K-metering system, but more importantly, something that can handle any 80 dB loud tone with optimally low reverberation. There's no 100% silent room, and there's definitely a point where architecture, and room treating becomes exponentially more pricey for just a little bit of difference.
I'd probably need two rooms, one for recording ~ probably just vocals; and a room for audio/music production and engineering.

I'm sure others thought of this, too, so I'd be interested in your thoughts, ideas.
I didn't think about the height of a building - as in, maybe in the air, or in/under-ground.

(Btw, I do remember once digging a hole, and the sound down there was awesome - but yeah, water, bugs, frogs. : ) )

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reddust
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Post 10 Dec 2019

For me more than the building isolation itself, would be important to have a building that is not attached to other buildings nearby so noise wouldn't be a problem for the neighbors.

About bidirectional sound isolation I think I would use some methods I learnt from my uncle. He uses foam or glass fiber on the walls and cover them with some nicer wall decorations that help isolating as well. I hate when studios are purely functional and end up looking uninspiring, then at the end it's all about making music and for me how the ambient looks is important too.

Another thing me and my uncle did once for his studio was a drum and singing hanging cabin. We built a wooden structure, like a big wooden box with a metallic skeleton, that hung off the walls and floated over the floor of the actual room, creating a space between the walls, the floor and the ceiling of around 15 or 20 centimeters if I remember correctly. That wooden box was isolated with glass fiber or foam as well and it had the classic glass window to communicate with the main studio room. It really worked well and to my suprise this same technique of letting the loudest room hang was applied at the philarmonic building in my city years later.

I don't know if I would apply this same principle if I had the money and opportunity to build my own studio, then I would definitely like to be able to play and record real drums inside of it but if this thread is about how I would wish my personal studio to be built, I think I would have to make a lot more thoughts about it :) , which btw would be a nice idea, but I'm not sure if the thread is all about dreaming or if you really want to hear of useful ideas for your future music studio

RobC
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Post 11 Dec 2019

reddust wrote:
10 Dec 2019
For me more than the building isolation itself, would be important to have a building that is not attached to other buildings nearby so noise wouldn't be a problem for the neighbors.

About bidirectional sound isolation I think I would use some methods I learnt from my uncle. He uses foam or glass fiber on the walls and cover them with some nicer wall decorations that help isolating as well. I hate when studios are purely functional and end up looking uninspiring, then at the end it's all about making music and for me how the ambient looks is important too.

Another thing me and my uncle did once for his studio was a drum and singing hanging cabin. We built a wooden structure, like a big wooden box with a metallic skeleton, that hung off the walls and floated over the floor of the actual room, creating a space between the walls, the floor and the ceiling of around 15 or 20 centimeters if I remember correctly. That wooden box was isolated with glass fiber or foam as well and it had the classic glass window to communicate with the main studio room. It really worked well and to my suprise this same technique of letting the loudest room hang was applied at the philarmonic building in my city years later.

I don't know if I would apply this same principle if I had the money and opportunity to build my own studio, then I would definitely like to be able to play and record real drums inside of it but if this thread is about how I would wish my personal studio to be built, I think I would have to make a lot more thoughts about it :) , which btw would be a nice idea, but I'm not sure if the thread is all about dreaming or if you really want to hear of useful ideas for your future music studio
Yeah, as I saw, even in villages, houses are connected to one-other, or pretty close. So, rural area would be the best bet IMO.

I think I saw the use of foams and glass fibers for sound isolation in case of wood houses, too. Mainly because wood is said to resonate a lot, so that might not be the best material for a studio as I thought at first. It can last, but needs maintenance. I gotta admit, I don't fancy the nasty looks of foam either, though it all depends if decoration doesn't make the sound worse.

That recording booth is an interesting concept. What was it hung with? A bit of sound can still travel through, I'd imagine, but seems like a great idea. Not sure if there's an easy way to keep say a 20-25 m2 studio in the air, though.

Since I planned this as a discussion, I'd say anything is welcome. Of course, I'm looking for affordable possibilities - though let's face it, no construction is cheap. Even wood isn't that much cheaper.

Btw, I'm not sure about glass. I kind of seem to hear some boxiness/reverberation in professionally recorded voice acting. Mostly with some modern Disney works - and I'm pretty sure they have the funds. : ) I wonder if glass gives that odd flavor to it.

boomer
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Post 11 Dec 2019

In my opinion you need to consider these factors first.

First is sound isolation. Do you need to prevent sound inside from getting outside? Do you need to prevent sound from outside getting inside.

Second the sound inside the room. Size and shape are usually the gating items here. After you decide on these you can get to sound treatment inside the room.

Third is budget. Can you afford what it takes to achieve the decisions you have made for the first two factors. Frankly it usually takes a real professional to advise you here.

Good luck in your journey.

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selig
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Post 11 Dec 2019

boomer wrote:
11 Dec 2019
In my opinion you need to consider these factors first.

First is sound isolation. Do you need to prevent sound inside from getting outside? Do you need to prevent sound from outside getting inside.

Second the sound inside the room. Size and shape are usually the gating items here. After you decide on these you can get to sound treatment inside the room.

Third is budget. Can you afford what it takes to achieve the decisions you have made for the first two factors. Frankly it usually takes a real professional to advise you here.

Good luck in your journey.
And fourth is function - what do you need to do in the space, and how do you like to work.
After working in a tiny cube in NYC for the past two years, I’m excited to get out of town and into the woods with a “proper” studio space.
Needless to say I’ve been thinking of many of the same questions lately...now I just need to be patient and hope all the pieces fall into place!
Selig Audio, LLC

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tt_lab
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Post 12 Dec 2019

boomer wrote:
11 Dec 2019
In my opinion you need to consider these factors first.

First is sound isolation. Do you need to prevent sound inside from getting outside? Do you need to prevent sound from outside getting inside.

Second the sound inside the room. Size and shape are usually the gating items here. After you decide on these you can get to sound treatment inside the room.

Third is budget. Can you afford what it takes to achieve the decisions you have made for the first two factors. Frankly it usually takes a real professional to advise you here.

Good luck in your journey.
I would say, first is shape. Shape plays the biggest roll for acoustics and as mentioned above by sellig it is totally attached to function that is a BIG one to consider. What spaces do you need? Are you planning in it being expandable in the future? . Then finish materials. It's not the same to have a concrete florr than a wooden one. The isolation. Wall internal and as mentioned wall finishes (clading). But maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just another architect. :lol:

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reddust
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Post 12 Dec 2019

RobC wrote:
11 Dec 2019
That recording booth is an interesting concept. What was it hung with? A bit of sound can still travel through, I'd imagine, but seems like a great idea. Not sure if there's an easy way to keep say a 20-25 m2 studio in the air, though.
What my uncle did was a really easy structure, it was a metal skeleton in cubic form that hung using a lot of elastic springs from a second skeletal cube that was directly attached to the walls, ceiling and floor of the room he used for the recording booth. The inner metallic cube had thin isolated panels and the glas window to see the drummer or singer while recording. I still remember how the booth kind of moved when entering in, it was a slightly movement but noticeable. I guess it wasn't a room to have a bunch of people inside of it and jumping but it was secure enough for its purpose.

The room wasn't really big and unless you can hire an architect to make the right calculations for it I wouldn't recommend doing it, specially not for the whole studio but maybe just a small cabin that should be specially isolated like my uncle did. And still then someone should be there to tell you if it's secure. In my family there are a lot of construction workers, he himself worked as such for years, so I guess he knew exactly what he was doing. I only helped with the work and I studied architecture myself but that was years later :)

In the case of the philarmonic in my city is quite different, as it's a very big structure that is designed to receive a lot of visitors and musicians and their instruments at the same time. You can see the principle they used on this video at minute 3:00, the inner structure where the music takes place is attached to the rest of the building by columns and some walls, but the main idea is to have some kind of "floating" structure where the loudest sounds take place and aren't directly next to the next building or the walls of the container building itself.



But as already said, I think the first step is to know what you exactly need for spaces and then take the correct decisions based on that.

By the way, my favorite guitar player has a couple of "making of" videos at two different studios where she recorded some of her albums. For me those are studios that are kind of inspiring because they look like a mixture of a professional studio and a regular house, a place where you can feel comfortable while recording your music and making a couple of thoughts on how to arrange your album. They're not exactly what I would build if I had the money to build my own studio, but they have something I would definitely want to have at my own studio, and it's that feeling of recording at home or at a friend's home.




RobC
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Post 15 Dec 2019

boomer wrote:
11 Dec 2019
In my opinion you need to consider these factors first.

First is sound isolation. Do you need to prevent sound inside from getting outside? Do you need to prevent sound from outside getting inside.

Second the sound inside the room. Size and shape are usually the gating items here. After you decide on these you can get to sound treatment inside the room.

Third is budget. Can you afford what it takes to achieve the decisions you have made for the first two factors. Frankly it usually takes a real professional to advise you here.

Good luck in your journey.
Since I'd go for rural area, maybe with trees around, I think, maybe some sound coming in occasionally may be the only problem.

Size is a good question. I don't really know what's best for that 80 dB standard. I would want to build something that is more the bang for the buck when it comes to size, and price. So, when the difference is very little, yet the room size must be much bigger for a +0.1% better isolation, that's where I'd say it's enough.

Thanks!
selig wrote:
11 Dec 2019

And fourth is function - what do you need to do in the space, and how do you like to work.
After working in a tiny cube in NYC for the past two years, I’m excited to get out of town and into the woods with a “proper” studio space.
Needless to say I’ve been thinking of many of the same questions lately...now I just need to be patient and hope all the pieces fall into place!
I'd say everything, from designing the sound, to the finishing touch of mastering. But that's the production/engineering room. The recording room would be mostly just vocals. I say mostly, cause I don't know if I want to add any other IRL elements in the future. But since I don't know, then I just say only vocals. : )
All in all, one hyperactive, hyper-focused guy taking care of all the work. I'd settle with vocal electro pop music. All made with synthesizers and vocals.
I'm sort of in the woods in rural area, and the silence is pretty good. Of course, I hear very softly, distant dog barks, occasionally helicopters looking for illegal immigrants (near boarder), distant trucks, vans, the occasional farmer working on smaller lands nearby, but these are rare, and nothing compared to the city. Heck I can't imagine how noisy NewYork can be.
I too, hope it works out for everyone that gives it a go.
tt_lab wrote:
12 Dec 2019
I would say, first is shape. Shape plays the biggest roll for acoustics and as mentioned above by sellig it is totally attached to function that is a BIG one to consider. What spaces do you need? Are you planning in it being expandable in the future? . Then finish materials. It's not the same to have a concrete florr than a wooden one. The isolation. Wall internal and as mentioned wall finishes (clading). But maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just another architect. :lol:
To me, sound comes first, no matter what. Expansion possibilities are great - as long as it doesn't risk sound. If it does, then I go for something permanent. Again, materials, sound will decide that one, too.

Heck, it can be the nastiest, cold prison, if that's what sound needs. : ) It may be art, but work is still work! And if I already got into audio science, and geek around that much with audio, then I should equally respect and take the work area seriously. There's no such thing like calling it a day with a pair of professional in-ears. Excellent for hearing tiny details, and the stereo wideness, but half as decent for dynamics - that definitely demands speakers. I need both worlds for something proper.
reddust wrote:
12 Dec 2019

What my uncle did was a really easy structure, it was a metal skeleton in cubic form that hung using a lot of elastic springs from a second skeletal cube that was directly attached to the walls, ceiling and floor of the room he used for the recording booth. The inner metallic cube had thin isolated panels and the glas window to see the drummer or singer while recording. I still remember how the booth kind of moved when entering in, it was a slightly movement but noticeable. I guess it wasn't a room to have a bunch of people inside of it and jumping but it was secure enough for its purpose.

The room wasn't really big and unless you can hire an architect to make the right calculations for it I wouldn't recommend doing it, specially not for the whole studio but maybe just a small cabin that should be specially isolated like my uncle did. And still then someone should be there to tell you if it's secure. In my family there are a lot of construction workers, he himself worked as such for years, so I guess he knew exactly what he was doing. I only helped with the work and I studied architecture myself but that was years later :)

In the case of the philarmonic in my city is quite different, as it's a very big structure that is designed to receive a lot of visitors and musicians and their instruments at the same time. You can see the principle they used on this video at minute 3:00, the inner structure where the music takes place is attached to the rest of the building by columns and some walls, but the main idea is to have some kind of "floating" structure where the loudest sounds take place and aren't directly next to the next building or the walls of the container building itself.

But as already said, I think the first step is to know what you exactly need for spaces and then take the correct decisions based on that.
I have terrible, but fun vertigo x D ~ it probably isn't as bad as I imagine though. I think I won't need glass. Like I said, I'm not sure if that doesn't affect the isolated sound. Anyway, sounds like a cool solution, especially if it can handle the banging with a drum kit.

Yeah, something bigger might get really pricey, so I guess I'll have to stay on earth, before I start floating in the clouds. : )

Wow, I definitely can't even dream what it takes to make something huge like that possible.

I think I decided on that one, that it's solo, all in one work for vocal electro pop (both creating every single detail, as well as engineering it all). Something that can handle approximately 20-15 kHz, 80 dB. Using both in-ears and speakers.

RobC
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Post 17 Dec 2019

If anybody has the answers now that I have the questions, I'm all ears!

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selig
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Post 17 Dec 2019

My nephew's old studio back in Utah had a floating room, which was pretty simple and highly effective for both drums and super loud guitar amps. One wall had simple sliding glass doors into the piano room, with sliding glass doors into the control room from there. Despite these 'week links' there was an incredible amount of isolation. From outside you could not hear a thing even when amps were blazing. This was a necessity because it was in a residential neighborhood.
My potential new location has the nearest neighbor around 100 yards away. Additionally, the only windows face the back which is a hill right behind the house with fairly dense forrest. All to say I don't think I'll need to do anything to isolate the room. And because I won't be tracking a full band with drums, vocals, and guitars amps, I don't need isolation. The space I have will have a bathroom which could work for guitar amps or as a vocal booth. I'll have drums there, but will likely track them on their own. And I don't think there are any sounds in the neighborhood to worry about - we're near the end of our street with 1000 acres of state park space across the street!.
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selig
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Post 17 Dec 2019

RobC wrote:
17 Dec 2019
If anybody has the answers now that I have the questions, I'm all ears!
Sorry, I'm not sure what the questions were?
One basic rule I learned was even in the "big" million dollar studios I've seen built, many times simple rectangular rooms were used. One reason for this is it makes the math easy. Most recommend not going with splayed walls etc unless you have a deep understanding of math.
There are basic ratios you can use as a starting point, which you can find online.
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... oom-design
After having worked in many, I've become a huge fan of the concept of non-environment rooms, which are covered in the link from SOS above.
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RobC
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Post 18 Dec 2019

selig wrote:
17 Dec 2019
RobC wrote:
17 Dec 2019
If anybody has the answers now that I have the questions, I'm all ears!
Sorry, I'm not sure what the questions were?
One basic rule I learned was even in the "big" million dollar studios I've seen built, many times simple rectangular rooms were used. One reason for this is it makes the math easy. Most recommend not going with splayed walls etc unless you have a deep understanding of math.
There are basic ratios you can use as a starting point, which you can find online.
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... oom-design
After having worked in many, I've become a huge fan of the concept of non-environment rooms, which are covered in the link from SOS above.
If I understand correctly, then the building itself doesn't matter what it's made of, cause the room treating is what really does the trick.
I saw discussions on here, that speakers should be placed in a perfect triangle shape. And that they should be placed as far from walls as possible. So I guess whatever room becomes the studio, the work area should be the place where that triangle is of equal distances from walls.
I wonder what the minimum room size is for professional work. AKA, not just the 'as good as a bedroom studio could get', but instead actually good sound.
And if I only record my own vocals, is there a reason why I couldn't record them in the same room as the studio? (That said, funny thing is that I'm thinking about recording vocals outside with a blumlein pair - I like moving around a bit, and forest has amazing ambience. I don't mind distant cars, dog barks, birds... farmers yelling at each-other "what are you doing, you mother f... a... hole" ~ but that's another topic for later.)

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bxbrkrz
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Post 18 Dec 2019

What is your total budget? How much money do you have for the project? Sharing this information will help us help you tremendously.

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selig
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Post 18 Dec 2019

RobC wrote:
18 Dec 2019
If I understand correctly, then the building itself doesn't matter what it's made of, cause the room treating is what really does the trick.
The building DOES matter. A solid concrete block building will contain sound better than stud walls. But that's not always a good thing, unless you have great acoustic control. Turns out letting some sound out is a good thing for acoustics, especially low end. The ultimate room is empty space, right? I have a friend in Nashville that had a big military tend and a THX system out in the country, and the acoustics were pretty fantastic. On that same property I rented a modular 12 sided house that also sounded fantastic (almost flat response down to 25 Hz), mainly because the walls were thin and allowed the bass to either be absorbed or escape. Even in famous studio like Avatar (Powerstation) in NYC they built the walls "flexible" to absorb low frequency energy rather than reflect it back into the room as standing waves.
RobC wrote:
18 Dec 2019
I saw discussions on here, that speakers should be placed in a perfect triangle shape. And that they should be placed as far from walls as possible. So I guess whatever room becomes the studio, the work area should be the place where that triangle is of equal distances from walls.
I've heard and understood that ideally speaking, the mix position should be around 1/3 (some say 38%) of the way from the back wall (the wall you face). If you put the speakers "as far from the walls as possible" you'll end up in the center of the room, which turns out is not the ideal position, acoustically speaking. This is one reason room ratios that are essentially rectangles are often preferred.
RobC wrote:
18 Dec 2019
I wonder what the minimum room size is for professional work. AKA, not just the 'as good as a bedroom studio could get', but instead actually good sound.
That would entirely depend on what the lowest frequency you need to accurately monitor. That's not to say you can't monitor in smaller rooms, just that you make it easier to control the sound when you have a room size that allows the lowest frequency to be represented equally as the highest.
RobC wrote:
18 Dec 2019
And if I only record my own vocals, is there a reason why I couldn't record them in the same room as the studio? (That said, funny thing is that I'm thinking about recording vocals outside with a blumlein pair - I like moving around a bit, and forest has amazing ambience. I don't mind distant cars, dog barks, birds... farmers yelling at each-other "what are you doing, you mother f... a... hole" ~ but that's another topic for later.)
Much of the work I've done more recently involved studios where the vocals were recorded in the (often oversized) control room. In those cases, drums and guitar amps were separated, but everyone else was in the same room. Certainly for overdubs, they can be done in the same room as everything else. The only issue I've ever had was overly loud computer fan noise. Otherwise I've never treated the room or used any "fancy" absorbers etc. specifically for recording, as any treatment for mixing also tends to apply to recording as well in my experience.
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RobC
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Post 21 Dec 2019

selig wrote:
18 Dec 2019
RobC wrote:
18 Dec 2019
If I understand correctly, then the building itself doesn't matter what it's made of, cause the room treating is what really does the trick.
The building DOES matter. A solid concrete block building will contain sound better than stud walls. But that's not always a good thing, unless you have great acoustic control. Turns out letting some sound out is a good thing for acoustics, especially low end. The ultimate room is empty space, right? I have a friend in Nashville that had a big military tend and a THX system out in the country, and the acoustics were pretty fantastic. On that same property I rented a modular 12 sided house that also sounded fantastic (almost flat response down to 25 Hz), mainly because the walls were thin and allowed the bass to either be absorbed or escape. Even in famous studio like Avatar (Powerstation) in NYC they built the walls "flexible" to absorb low frequency energy rather than reflect it back into the room as standing waves.
RobC wrote:
18 Dec 2019
I saw discussions on here, that speakers should be placed in a perfect triangle shape. And that they should be placed as far from walls as possible. So I guess whatever room becomes the studio, the work area should be the place where that triangle is of equal distances from walls.
I've heard and understood that ideally speaking, the mix position should be around 1/3 (some say 38%) of the way from the back wall (the wall you face). If you put the speakers "as far from the walls as possible" you'll end up in the center of the room, which turns out is not the ideal position, acoustically speaking. This is one reason room ratios that are essentially rectangles are often preferred.
RobC wrote:
18 Dec 2019
I wonder what the minimum room size is for professional work. AKA, not just the 'as good as a bedroom studio could get', but instead actually good sound.
That would entirely depend on what the lowest frequency you need to accurately monitor. That's not to say you can't monitor in smaller rooms, just that you make it easier to control the sound when you have a room size that allows the lowest frequency to be represented equally as the highest.
RobC wrote:
18 Dec 2019
And if I only record my own vocals, is there a reason why I couldn't record them in the same room as the studio? (That said, funny thing is that I'm thinking about recording vocals outside with a blumlein pair - I like moving around a bit, and forest has amazing ambience. I don't mind distant cars, dog barks, birds... farmers yelling at each-other "what are you doing, you mother f... a... hole" ~ but that's another topic for later.)
Much of the work I've done more recently involved studios where the vocals were recorded in the (often oversized) control room. In those cases, drums and guitar amps were separated, but everyone else was in the same room. Certainly for overdubs, they can be done in the same room as everything else. The only issue I've ever had was overly loud computer fan noise. Otherwise I've never treated the room or used any "fancy" absorbers etc. specifically for recording, as any treatment for mixing also tends to apply to recording as well in my experience.
I kind of noticed quite pleasant sound inside a greenhouse ~ though if the wind blows the plastic makes its noise. Now, for work area I guess I could consider something simpler after all, though if sound goes out, won't it also come in? There probably is some solution for that, too.
Work is one thing, while living is another. In the past, I considered simple multi-level houses. Maybe a solid first floor for living, and a more simple second floor on top of it for a studio might work out.

To be honest, if we have such guides when it comes to placing speakers, then we can do that ourselves. Treating a room is a different matter, unless there are building guides, too.

If it's possible, I'd love to be able to work with 20 Hz to 15 kHz. Though I see that most sub boxes tops go down to 35 Hz. Anything lower, and they ask a fortune.

Why would anyone keep a computer in the control room, though? I mean, that's what they have computer rooms for.

All in all, a well -planned building might not require any foams, and bass traps?
bxbrkrz wrote:
18 Dec 2019
What is your total budget? How much money do you have for the project? Sharing this information will help us help you tremendously.
Let's just say I may have opportunities ~ I rather planned this as a discussion, so anyone can talk about their plans. I'm more the bang for the buck type. Always looking for the optimal sweet spot.

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bxbrkrz
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Post 21 Dec 2019

RobC wrote:
21 Dec 2019

bxbrkrz wrote:
18 Dec 2019
What is your total budget? How much money do you have for the project? Sharing this information will help us help you tremendously.
Let's just say I may have opportunities ~ I rather planned this as a discussion, so anyone can talk about their plans. I'm more the bang for the buck type. Always looking for the optimal sweet spot.
Translation: open ending discussion, no money yet, or real planning for the final project? :puf_smile:

It's a fun read, and you got great feedback, but you do not provide enough limitations (for me). What is your 'optimal sweet spot' ? The possibilities are endless, so is personal taste. That's why knowing what your budget is can be much helpful for us all.

I can't stand the clinical vibe of that Star Wars themed studio, and the fact that the main entrance is almost right behind the main creative spot bugs me. I like the unfinished DIY 'barn' much better. I don't know if people could get a little bit seasick on the red boat.




RobC
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Post 22 Dec 2019

bxbrkrz wrote:
21 Dec 2019
Translation: open ending discussion, no money yet, or real planning for the final project? :puf_smile:

It's a fun read, and you got great feedback, but you do not provide enough limitations (for me). What is your 'optimal sweet spot' ? The possibilities are endless, so is personal taste. That's why knowing what your budget is can be much helpful for us all.

I can't stand the clinical vibe of that Star Wars themed studio, and the fact that the main entrance is almost right behind the main creative spot bugs me. I like the unfinished DIY 'barn' much better. I don't know if people could get a little bit seasick on the red boat.
I'm not going to share such private information, likewise I don't ask anyone about that. Other people could still easily share valuable tips.

Again, the basic info is laid out: it would be a personal studio; reproducing 20 Hz to 15 kHz if possible; suitable for creating vocal electro-pop music, professionally, from start to finish (song writing, performing, producing, and engineering in a nutshell ~ but about a dozen tasks total - but I think we already know that). Sound has priority, until things get needlessly expensive. I think it's understandable that it's not worth investing 10% more for 1 or 0.1% better sound isolation. And we obviously can juggle between building material, building size/shape, and room treating.

Design is less important to me, than sound.

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bxbrkrz
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Post 22 Dec 2019

RobC wrote:
22 Dec 2019
bxbrkrz wrote:
21 Dec 2019
Design is less important to me, than sound.
Studio design = Studio Sound
You could eliminate the room building (and back pain) and get a set of headphones. Cheap.

:puf_smile:

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selig
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Post 22 Dec 2019

RobC wrote:
22 Dec 2019
I'm not going to share such private information, likewise I don't ask anyone about that. Other people could still easily share valuable tips.

Again, the basic info is laid out: it would be a personal studio; reproducing 20 Hz to 15 kHz if possible; suitable for creating vocal electro-pop music, professionally, from start to finish (song writing, performing, producing, and engineering in a nutshell ~ but about a dozen tasks total - but I think we already know that). Sound has priority, until things get needlessly expensive. I think it's understandable that it's not worth investing 10% more for 1 or 0.1% better sound isolation. And we obviously can juggle between building material, building size/shape, and room treating.

Design is less important to me, than sound.
Assuming you have the budget for a subwoofer that goes down to 15 Hz (and for the room that can support it), you probably have the budget to pay for a professional studio designer. Asking questions here gets you "amateur" answers (apologies if there are any pro studio designers here!). OTOH, if this is a DIY project, I'd suggest you take some acoustic design classes because you may need them for a room such as you describe! And at that point, I hope you come back here and give us some pro advice. ;)

BTW, I have a JBL sub that does 25 Hz nicely, (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... LkEALw_wcB) though I'm curios what electro-pop music has 15 Hz components in it?
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RobC
Posts: 1204
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

Post 23 Dec 2019

bxbrkrz wrote:
22 Dec 2019

Studio design = Studio Sound
You could eliminate the room building (and back pain) and get a set of headphones. Cheap.

:puf_smile:
Well, then I meant to say Studio Decoration... It doesn't matter to me as much how the studio looks, as the sound does. Decoration < Sound.
I already have decent in-ears ~ they definitely will remain for stereo width, and hearing tiniest details during sound design and alike. What I mostly need speakers for, seems to be dynamics. Though I haven't really made that much of a comparison with dynamics.
However, when it came to mixing/leveling for example, when I tried with in-ears and speakers individually, I mixed 100% accurately to the same values. Other "weirdness" is how I can pan with in-ears 100% spot on to values like 250 or 500 out of 1000 (without looking!). Which is said to have something to do with my possible ADHD, giving me a "savant skill".
selig wrote:
22 Dec 2019


Assuming you have the budget for a subwoofer that goes down to 15 Hz (and for the room that can support it), you probably have the budget to pay for a professional studio designer. Asking questions here gets you "amateur" answers (apologies if there are any pro studio designers here!). OTOH, if this is a DIY project, I'd suggest you take some acoustic design classes because you may need them for a room such as you describe! And at that point, I hope you come back here and give us some pro advice. ;)

BTW, I have a JBL sub that does 25 Hz nicely, (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... LkEALw_wcB) though I'm curios what electro-pop music has 15 Hz components in it?
I said 20 Hz to 15 kHz. So, 20 Hz to 15000 Hz.

I'd probably hire a professional, but it's good to know the basics, since many people love money. Then "oh mai, was an accident ~ needs revision, so there will be just a tiny little extra fee - if you don't like it, sue me, but that will cost ya much more". There are a LOT of such professionals in my country. So I gotta be careful and prepared.

Interestingly, there was a small team of people, who could be hired, but they only worked for you, if your music was good enough in their opinion. They gave info about building speakers, and were highly against industry--made ones. What they promised was building the speakers in your studio, with careful measuring, which actually comes with taking the speakers apart and making adjustments multiple times.

dezma
Posts: 215
Joined: 02 Jun 2015

Post 23 Dec 2019

I quite enjoyed reading this book. It's mainly oriented towards the construction part, but also a part room treatment.

https://www.amazon.com/Home-Recording-S ... 143545717X

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bxbrkrz
Posts: 1351
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 23 Dec 2019

RobC wrote:
23 Dec 2019
bxbrkrz wrote:
22 Dec 2019

Studio design = Studio Sound
You could eliminate the room building (and back pain) and get a set of headphones. Cheap.

:puf_smile:
Well, then I meant to say Studio Decoration... It doesn't matter to me as much how the studio looks, as the sound does. Decoration < Sound.
I already have decent in-ears ~ they definitely will remain for stereo width, and hearing tiniest details during sound design and alike. What I mostly need speakers for, seems to be dynamics. Though I haven't really made that much of a comparison with dynamics.
However, when it came to mixing/leveling for example, when I tried with in-ears and speakers individually, I mixed 100% accurately to the same values. Other "weirdness" is how I can pan with in-ears 100% spot on to values like 250 or 500 out of 1000 (without looking!). Which is said to have something to do with my possible ADHD, giving me a "savant skill".
The thing you can't replace in your studio is your hearing, so be aware of how loud your in-ears, or any types of headphones are. Everything else in your future studio will be based on science, and good personal taste.

Decoration < Sound < happiness and peace of mind < all 7 Chakras unlocked.

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selig
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Post 23 Dec 2019

It's important to know what you want and need for your creative space.
I find the visual aspect to be very important for my creative space. I always like to be able to adjust lighting for inspiration, love to see outside (esp. if it includes nature), and like to keep things somewhere between cluttered and minimalist. I like having all instruments setup and ready to play without delay, so I prefer a bit of space to work. I like to be able have access to the back of gear so that if/when there's an issue, it's easy to take care of things quickly.
Here's the space I'm hoping to get, which is above a garage with windows that face the back into the side of the hill behind the house. This space is separate from the rest of the home, has a full bath and mini kitchen, and the neighborhood is fairly spread out (nearest houses are about 100 yards away on all sides) and surrounded by nature (1000 acre state park across the street).
Basically, it looks ideal for my needs. :)
Image
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RobC
Posts: 1204
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

Post 25 Dec 2019

dezma wrote:
23 Dec 2019
I quite enjoyed reading this book. It's mainly oriented towards the construction part, but also a part room treatment.

https://www.amazon.com/Home-Recording-S ... 143545717X
Have you already built a studio then?
bxbrkrz wrote:
23 Dec 2019

The thing you can't replace in your studio is your hearing, so be aware of how loud your in-ears, or any types of headphones are. Everything else in your future studio will be based on science, and good personal taste.

Decoration < Sound < happiness and peace of mind < all 7 Chakras unlocked.
In-ears only. I usually set in-ears so when listening to music, I find that point which is still too quiet and I only have to go a bit above it to be right. A little more, then I notice that it's too loud. The other trick is to turn on speakers with the same content at 80 dB, then I go back and forth, and set the in-ears to similar level.
Not sure if there's any way to measure in-ears. I usually listen pretty quietly though. Gladly my ears are sensitive to tiny details, too.

Something that struck my mind today was that when I compared dynamics on in-ears vs. speakers, I totally forgot that the speakers were set rather quiet. That resulted that in dance music, that side-chained pumping effect seemed way stronger. Hence I started thinking I have problems with the in-ears dynamics. I still do, and I'm quite sure it won't work, but I yet have to make a comparison how I set up any dynamics (be it envelope or compression) at equal volumes on both speakers and in-ears.
If by any chance, I would get the same results... well, I'd still want speakers, cause they are felt better. x D Plus I doubt I could do something like using in-ears, while turning on a subwoofer.
selig wrote:
23 Dec 2019
It's important to know what you want and need for your creative space.
I find the visual aspect to be very important for my creative space. I always like to be able to adjust lighting for inspiration, love to see outside (esp. if it includes nature), and like to keep things somewhere between cluttered and minimalist. I like having all instruments setup and ready to play without delay, so I prefer a bit of space to work. I like to be able have access to the back of gear so that if/when there's an issue, it's easy to take care of things quickly.
Here's the space I'm hoping to get, which is above a garage with windows that face the back into the side of the hill behind the house. This space is separate from the rest of the home, has a full bath and mini kitchen, and the neighborhood is fairly spread out (nearest houses are about 100 yards away on all sides) and surrounded by nature (1000 acre state park across the street).
Basically, it looks ideal for my needs. :)
The main issue with my ADHD is, that for example: if a fly gets on the window, it instantly gets 100% of my attention. However, alternatively, I use a lava lamp, and a keyboard with fancy changing backlight. So the fun colors and weird lights make up for it all. But I rather meant how we decorate walls and if what's used, may affect the sound. So, I'd choose any decoration carefully.
On the other hand, I can get hyper-focused during nights, so a studio room may or may not need windows for me. (I still have no clue how much glass affects sound.)

Looks appealing ~ I guess that might need little treating?
When I searched for info the other day, I found that about 2.5 m high, 4x5 m or so~ room can be used for 20 Hz. Not sure if that's true ~ I wish so. : ) Some said that it's more suitable, cause it needs less power for the bass.

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